I AM sick of being the HERO- let me make dark choices

AusarViled

i know i am not the only one? Every story in eso- yay gold stars for everyone, save the day... save the day, be a nice little boy/ girl, its honestly ridiculous. So here is how ZOS can play of it.

1) Create a new story, where we the HEROS can ACTUALLY TALK, yes what is the point of us picking voices in character creator? Swtor does this, and many other games. It would be a continuation of the story of 3 banner war, we as a hero, call all sides to a meeting, and guess what? we turn on them all

The idea, is that we have been helping everyone with the intention of guile. Everyone trusts us? who would expect our MC to become evil? well guess what, we betray the daedra, we defeat the kings, we kill the armies, we bring eso to its knees.

We become the villain of Elder Scrolls 6. Yes us, the hero, is in fact a daedric prince who does not know they are one. We kill thousands, and slowly our powers rise. We single handedly destroy everyone and seize power.

All hail the new daedra lord, all hail you the MC1! But that is just a theory... one i think would be fun to see. Do you agree? continue the thread, and improvise- maybe Bethesda can use it.

colossalvoids

At the very least we should have more neutral / evil lines in dialogues as currently you're playing zos's character and not yours. For example I "rp" a merc, I do stuff for gold and can't care less about all the highs and lows most of the time and it would be good at least have some options to fit that, not even starting if I actually hostile to someone because reasons, "hero in shining armour" doesn't cut.

VaranisArano

More options for dialogue would be nice, but you aren't going to get to destroy the game world. You never really could, notwithstanding:



The problem with adding evil-aligned dialogue or quests is that if you don't do it well, you can't satisfy everyone. For every mustache whirling villain who wishes they could sign up with Mannimarco, you've got people who're like "My Dark Brotherhod Silencer is subtle and would never tell Eveli I'm a member." The Elder Scrolls generally sits in the area of "shades of gray," neither allowing its Heroes to be complete goody-two-shoes nor world-destroying cultists.


Spoilers for the early Blackwood quests:

I'm very irritated by the bad writing for Dark Brotherhood members in the first Blackwood quests.

A. We have no choice but to volunteer that we're members of the Dark Brotherhood to Eveli with all the subtlety of a brick thrown through a window.

B. We learn that the Brotherhood is starting a new Sanctuary in Blackwood, and then promptly break the Tenets by handing over that info to the authorities.

Like, seriously, writers, if you were trying to let me roleplay a Dark Brotherhood member where my evil choices have consequences, this was a terrible way to do it. Do better. [/spoilers]

zelaminator

Would require way too much work, and people would never be satisfied.. if the evil people gets a story, it's an entirely new story line that needs to be written.. then the neutral people requires THEIR story line, and so on and on..

Pauwer

I tried to play evil on my dunmer vampire nb, but was imposible. I particularly remember one vvardenfell quest where there was some girl who was to become a slave and it did my best so it would happen, but she was freed anyway. What a let down.

vallisas

Careful, don't wanna end up like swtor. They screwed up their whole consistency, wrote themselves in a corner several times, and bricked multiple characters specifically due to evil choices, now they're in a state where people an villains are constantly resurrected.

peacenote

I hear you.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460442/story-chapter-dlc-idea#latest

Amerises

When I first started playing, because I had dialog choices, I thought it mattered. I also never trusted npc's in quests, because I thought maybe they would lie ... I had some pretty high expectations for this game at first, I guess ...

Ratzkifal

I don't want voiced player characters. I am already conflicted about the Battleground voice lines, since my character is clearly being misrepresented to other players.

What we can and honestly should change however is adding more character to the lines you can choose to say. Often enough we can get away with completely different answers having the same result. Take the housing introduction quest for example.

"Nope, just make yourself at home. Spruce things up a bit! Honestly, I can't wait to see how you arrange the place. Hopefully you'll end up with a few less Daedric shrines than another former tenant of mine. Like zero. Zero's a good number."

• Of course! I don't even worship Daedra.
• [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra.

Give me more of that! The outcome is the same, but I can pick whatever I prefer. Not every quest has to have an evil option but if 5% of all new quests had an option to be evil, then a lot of us would already be a lot happier.

phaneub17_ESO

A truly great villain is the one who can do all the nasty evil things and no one suspects you of anything. You are the Hero in their eyes and yet you have committed horrible atrocities unbeknownst to them. Good job!

omnidoh

I'd agree that character choices which would have more significant impact would be preferable to the rubber-stamped carbon-copied "Hero of <x>" story.

SWTOR did have issues with this, but to be fair, it was the first MMO of it's type that was designed that way, and no one could have accurately predicted that scrambled-story eggs would be the end-result of their efforts.

Thankfully, they did create a successful template with it, and more modern tech has allowed for "phasing" to conveniently (and inconveniently) separate players at different chapters or points in their quests and stories, so any future MMO that decides to incorporate player choice can at least account for the tri-path of: Good, Neutral, and Evil.

Will ESO accomplish that before it is retired?
I think it unlikely, but certainly not impossible.
In the world of the digital, there is very little that is impossible.

Chips_Ahoy

In my adventures in Tamriel I have met the worst murderers, thieves, slave traders, etc.

and the worst insult I've ever heard is ...

milk drinker

NoireJin the Witchking

Yeah.. but that won't happen as ZOS want this game to just be a cinematic novel with no choice, which is a deviation of what the ES franchise stood for. It's turns to be tedious whenthe ending is the same for every expansion. Oh some person we met 5 minutes ago died? Who cares. Let us make evil choices. Allow more than one gameplay style especially since you're clearly catering to the story element of this game as the gameplay has lacked inovation for the past 5 years.

Dagre2

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

In my adventures in Tamriel I have met the worst murderers, thieves, slave traders, etc.

and the worst insult I've ever heard is ...

milk drinker

well, we all know by now, murdering things in video games is ok but to use words people claim are bad on the other hand, that's just crossing a line.

Kosef

That's why I don't really even care for the story arch from each zone as to me it's pretty much the same. I find more variety if any in the side quest and just roaming around. I kill citizens if they are snobby, I steal from banks, pick pocket the wealthy when available. If you play outside the scope of the main stories you can create your own adventure.

xeNNNNN

zelaminator wrote: »

Would require way too much work, and people would never be satisfied.. if the evil people gets a story, it's an entirely new story line that needs to be written.. then the neutral people requires THEIR story line, and so on and on..

If you build it they will come as the saying goes.

Though its also said that businesses only move if they see gold over the horizon so I guess that fits here, if there was enough demand and they had the resources for it they would likely just do it.

To be honest I just want the 1 handed and spell skill line already. Its already on some of the NPCs in various locations around the game like they were testing it with the NPCs.

Orion_89

ZOS' writers: Oh my god! You can't be the big badzeez! Because everyone should be good! And polite! And even DB members could be a heroezeez! And no betrayals, no intrigues from our side, no enslaving the weak, you already may kill some citizens and we'll cut this out someday too... Whatever, buy the new crown crates.

DarcyMardin

Well you do have the chance to make the evil choice in the final Mages Guild storyline. For me, it was distasteful choosing to leave poor mad Valaste in Sheo’s clutches, but I wanted the power he offered me (I.e., those skill points).

Alucardo

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Well you do have the chance to make the evil choice in the final Mages Guild storyline. For me, it was distasteful choosing to leave poor mad Valaste in Sheo’s clutches, but I wanted the power he offered me (I.e., those skill points).

I'll be honest, I don't get into the story side of things, but damn that had me hurting. I kept telling myself she was happy and would be well looked after, even if it was artificial happiness...

OT: if you want to play an evil character, join the Dark Brotherhood. It's much easier to force people to be a hero than a villain. The above moral quandary for example. That just didn't seem fair imho.

spartaxoxo

The story idea you have is way too over the top and would require far too much work. They could add more dialogue choices that aren't meaningful I suppose.

NoireJin the Witchking

zelaminator wrote: »

Would require way too much work, and people would never be satisfied.. if the evil people gets a story, it's an entirely new story line that needs to be written.. then the neutral people requires THEIR story line, and so on and on..

"Would require too much work" it's almost as if we pay these guys salary to provide us with GOOD content. Players such as yourself intentionally or unintentionally breed lazy game devoloping because you keep defending blatantl lack of inspiration. Imagine working to make the game and it's elemtns more fleshed out and sustainable for all players. But nah too much work..

spartaxoxo

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Would require way too much work, and people would never be satisfied.. if the evil people gets a story, it's an entirely new story line that needs to be written.. then the neutral people requires THEIR story line, and so on and on..

"Would require too much work" it's almost as if we pay these guys salary to provide us with GOOD content. Players such as yourself intentionally or unintentionally breed lazy game devoloping because you keep defending blatantl lack of inspiration. Imagine working to make the game and it's elemtns more fleshed out and sustainable for all players. But nah too much work..

Developers already have some of the most grueling schedules of any consumer industry. They work very hard and no, they aren't paid enough for it. That's why a lot of video game developers end up burning out and leaving the industry.

You need to be realistic.

zelaminator

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Would require way too much work, and people would never be satisfied.. if the evil people gets a story, it's an entirely new story line that needs to be written.. then the neutral people requires THEIR story line, and so on and on..

"Would require too much work" it's almost as if we pay these guys salary to provide us with GOOD content. Players such as yourself intentionally or unintentionally breed lazy game devoloping because you keep defending blatantl lack of inspiration. Imagine working to make the game and it's elemtns more fleshed out and sustainable for all players. But nah too much work..

Yeah, take the easy route and blame people like me, that never gets old.. I really don't care.. I call it as I see it, and I think it would take too much work from them, especially since there is so much else to do..

colossalvoids

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I don't want voiced player characters. I am already conflicted about the Battleground voice lines, since my character is clearly being misrepresented to other players.

What we can and honestly should change however is adding more character to the lines you can choose to say. Often enough we can get away with completely different answers having the same result. Take the housing introduction quest for example.

"Nope, just make yourself at home. Spruce things up a bit! Honestly, I can't wait to see how you arrange the place. Hopefully you'll end up with a few less Daedric shrines than another former tenant of mine. Like zero. Zero's a good number."

• Of course! I don't even worship Daedra.
• [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra.

Give me more of that! The outcome is the same, but I can pick whatever I prefer. Not every quest has to have an evil option but if 5% of all new quests had an option to be evil, then a lot of us would already be a lot happier.

Still wonder why I can't lie in a Blackwood's main quest line about being in a dark brotherhood and actually not betray it, eh. Hope one day we won't see same mistakes done again.

kmontywrwb17_ESO

It's an MMO. The problem is making us central to the world story at all. If everyone is the hero or villain, no-one is.

Just build a world and let us make our way through it. Now *that's* an MMO.

zelaminator

kmontywrwb17_ESO wrote: »

It's an MMO. The problem is making us central to the world story at all. If everyone is the hero or villain, no-one is.

Just build a world and let us make our way through it. Now *that's* an MMO.

I agree it would be awesome, I just don't see it being feasible in an mmo.. how many storylines would need to be written, how many versions of the world should be created.?

kmontywrwb17_ESO

zelaminator wrote: »

I agree it would be awesome, I just don't see it being feasible in an mmo.. how many storylines would need to be written, how many versions of the world should be created.?

But that's the point - we shouldn't feature in the main story at all. The world moves and flows without us. We can choose to be a part of it or not. That means by definition there is only ever one story - the world story. Our part in it only affects us and those around us.

This idea that players should be able to affect the world and be it's hero is the big problem. It's juvenile stuff, and belongs in single player games IMO. An MMO should be an expansive world that is far bigger than me.

zelaminator

kmontywrwb17_ESO wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

I agree it would be awesome, I just don't see it being feasible in an mmo.. how many storylines would need to be written, how many versions of the world should be created.?

But that's the point - we shouldn't feature in the main story at all. The world moves and flows without us. We can choose to be a part of it or not. That means by definition there is only ever one story - the world story. Our part in it only affects us and those around us.

This idea that players should be able to affect the world and be it's hero is the big problem. It's juvenile stuff, and belongs in single player games IMO. An MMO should be an expansive world that is far bigger than me.

Just so we are clear.. you'd want a game where we have no impact.? Where we are just random people.?

SammyKhajit

It’d just bring up a whole vipers nest of pro slavery, women hating, homophobic and racist bunch of waste of space bigots polluting the game, chats and forums about how they aim to do this or that anti social actions. Sammy has enough of that in real life. Sammy likes ESO for its wholesome approach.

Orion_89

SammyKhajit wrote: »

It’d just bring up a whole vipers nest of pro slavery, women hating, homophobic and racist bunch of waste of space bigots polluting the game, chats and forums about how they aim to do this or that anti social actions. Sammy has enough of that in real life. Sammy likes ESO for its wholesome approach.

These topics are at least interesting. Why should I be interested in the stories about how everything is fine under two moons? You said ESO has a wholesome approach, but why killing some NPCs is good and enslaving them is bad? I can't see any difference and wonder why being an evil in the game would make me a villain irl?

colossalvoids

SammyKhajit wrote: »

It’d just bring up a whole vipers nest of pro slavery, women hating, homophobic and racist bunch of waste of space bigots polluting the game, chats and forums about how they aim to do this or that anti social actions. Sammy has enough of that in real life. Sammy likes ESO for its wholesome approach.

When you create an absolute vacuum for some kind of antisocial behaviour in games or web it can cause a blow up in real life as they have nowhere to ease the steam. It's not magically "cures" some behavioural problems but reinforces them most of the times.

I'd be more okay if someone would be able to kill or harass someone in a videogame or listen to some violent lyrics than the same person would punch someone irl because their misunderstanding of how world actually works in any department and might be triggered that he's being silenced in every media be it games, music etc.