ZOS, please let us see a record of rapport actions

Minyassa

Rapport has been a little confusing for me from the start, and I finally had to go looking for posts about it to understand how it really works. Now I get it, but I'm still confused about what will or will not set it off in either direction sometimes, and I'd like if I could actually look at what has affected my rapport, at least recently. I thought I had a handle on how to play nice with Bastian, but I was in the middle of a long quest-related combat with numerous NPCs coming out of a portal in waves, and somewhere in the middle of that combat something happened that negatively affected my rapport with Bastian. The only reason I knew it was the banner that popped up in the corner during that combat, but I was still fighting so I couldn't really look around to see what the problem was. I was fighting daedra that were attacking me and there were no innocents around and I obviously wasn't stealing things or crafting with cheese or whatever else we've discovered, and no one I've asked could tell me what I might possibly have done during a normal combat with a ton of daedra to upset Bastian. I *really* want to know what that was, and I think you should give us someplace to look for that information.

rpa

A rat adsorbed your most expensive ability?

Linaleah

rpa wrote: »

A rat adsorbed your most expensive ability?

its a notorious and well known issue where your ultimates target critters instead of mobs you are actualy trying to hit and yeah, I think he may not like it when you kill critters.... I think...

that said, I honestly do not understand why they couldn't just do the numerical meter and increases. at least on PC we have an addon now that tells you what does what (most things don't add much rapport btw, the only good chunk you can get is from doing mage guild/fighter guild dailies - turn in mage with bastian present and fighters with mirri. gives them 125 rapport per turn in). but consoles once again are kinda SoL.

tc91101

How much does Scrying give Bastian and then Excavating give Miri? I get notifications if I have them out when doing those activities. I figured it was more than typical since they actually give system notifications for those but other things don't. Is it comparable to the dailies? I haven't tried the dailies. Also, what's the point really in getting rapport to max? Is there any benefit at all?

ectoplasmicninja

Scrying/excavating is +5. Dailies are +125, and because you can get shares and so do multiple dailies those are by far the most efficient way to raise rapport. If they comment positively but you don't see a rapport notification you aren't actually earning any rapport, so things like being in cities and harvesting nodes aren't raising your rapport. If you're on PC there are a couple of addons that show your exact number of rapport as well as drop the notifications in your chat so you can't miss them.

Raising rapport unlocks their quests, and doing that as well as some other things (check your achievements) will earn you a keepsake that allows their perks to be active even when they're not with you. If you don't care about that, there's no reason to grind it out.

tc91101

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

Scrying/excavating is +5. Dailies are +125, and because you can get shares and so do multiple dailies those are by far the most efficient way to raise rapport. If they comment positively but you don't see a rapport notification you aren't actually earning any rapport, so things like being in cities and harvesting nodes aren't raising your rapport. If you're on PC there are a couple of addons that show your exact number of rapport as well as drop the notifications in your chat so you can't miss them.

Raising rapport unlocks their quests, and doing that as well as some other things (check your achievements) will earn you a keepsake that allows their perks to be active even when they're not with you. If you don't care about that, there's no reason to grind it out.

Hmm. I might try some of the dailies then. I was reading in the help section for companions (F1 - Companions - Availability) that "level" carries across all toons; however, "quest completion, RAPPORT, costume, and mount" do not. Do you think if you get max rapport and max level on one toon and get the keepsake that it will open that keepsake to all toons? It seems like it would if it's achievement related.

Elsonso

Does the default ZOS dialog even tell you why you got a rapport change? Last I remember, it just says "something you did" change the rapport. You have to figure it out for yourself (sans Addons). It sounds to me like ZOS isn't going to tell people what does what, so I can't see why they would want to let you look back.

ectoplasmicninja

tc91101 wrote: »

Do you think if you get max rapport and max level on one toon and get the keepsake that it will open that keepsake to all toons? It seems like it would if it's achievement related.

I can't say for sure yet, as my Bastian is still level 15, but I don't think it will. First, because achievements are character based and not account wide, and second, because it would make it totally unnecessary to level their rapport any more than once unless you really had a burning desire to role-play with them on all of your characters. I know that emotes and mementos are typically account wide, but I don't think the keepsake will be...but I'd be happy to learn I'm wrong.

The vanilla rapport bar is inscrutable and disheartening and I don't blame anyone for seeing a bunch of increase popups and then realizing that the bar hasn't moved and saying "screw this", but being able to see the numbers with the addons really helps you feel like you're making progress and not just banging your head against a wall. Maybe they didn't want to reduce friendship to a numbers game, but it's not like me dragging Bastian to every public dungeon in the known universe to swipe missing Sheogorath relics for the Mages Guild to gain his approval is particularly organic either.

cynicalbutterfly

I thought I was doing good with Bastian until I went into Silent Hills PD. During one of the boss fights I must've killed a rat in an AOE. He disliked that action apparently and told me so. Oddly enough I never got a notification that his rapport decreased. I just happened to go into his menu to check it and found it way lower than it had been.

I would love a way to see what I gain and lose. Half the time, I'm fairly sure it isn't even giving me a notification of it unless it's a big gain or a big loss. And I'm on console so getting an add on like pc is out of the question lol

ectoplasmicninja

Bastian complains vocally but doesn't log decreases for killing critters. Even if he did, it wouldn't be anything that would make your bar move noticeably, as you can't even really see a 125 increase, and the things he does dislike are mostly -1 and -5 hits. Unfortunately the only way to judge it properly without addons is to take screenshots and compare them. The entire bar is like 10,000 points of rapport from negative to positive, so you can see how small pluses and minuses don't visually register to our eyes.

There's a thread on the PTS section of this forum where we've been trying to itemise what they like and dislike, and what the gain/loss is for each action. Check it out, it may help.

Fennwitty

On the bug forum someone says Bastian is losing rapport at a quest boss. Almost guaranteed an error with how the boss is set up in the background. Maybe the game thinks it's an 'innocent' or something.

There might be a particular critter somewhere but after trying to kill most of the wildlife and pick up everything I see he makes comments but his rapport isn't affected so far. I'm using an addon that shows gains and losses.

ectoplasmicninja

Yeah, that particular quest boss is absolutely a bug. According to the dialogue some folks have reported it seems to be coded as a pet or something. It happened on the PTS and I reported it there but seems to have slipped through...hopefully it gets patched out but it hasn't been acknowledged anywhere by ZOS that I've seen yet.

Minyassa

Fennwitty wrote: »

On the bug forum someone says Bastian is losing rapport at a quest boss. Almost guaranteed an error with how the boss is set up in the background. Maybe the game thinks it's an 'innocent' or something.

There might be a particular critter somewhere but after trying to kill most of the wildlife and pick up everything I see he makes comments but his rapport isn't affected so far. I'm using an addon that shows gains and losses.

Thanks, that was indeed the quest I was on, so mystery solved at least. I'm relieved it's a bug and not something I did and would never know how to avoid.

Jaraal

If you don't want to or can't use addons, type /script d(​GetActiveCompanionRapport()) and see the current rapport value. When you see a rapport change pop-up, then type it again to see how much gain or loss that action provides.

code65536

If you're on PC, you can get the Improved Companion Rapport Information addon, which is a very simple/lightweight addon (just a handful of lines of code).

This is something that really should be part of the base game, though, and it's frustrating that the rapport system is so opaque.

For example, I used to worry about picking insects, until I finally realized that they're just -1 to rapport. And that the max is 5500. And that a single guild daily increases it by +125. So now that I know that picking insects has such a inconsequential effect (it's just background noise), I don't care about it any more and just pick them as I like (and since there's a cooldown on the rapport change, I could pick 20 of them and be charged the -1 loss only once). But if you're on console or otherwise stuck with the default UI, there's no way to know any of this, and that's just terrible design.

Lerozain

code65536 wrote: »

If you're on PC, you can get the Improved Companion Rapport Information addon, which is a very simple/lightweight addon (just a handful of lines of code).

This is something that really should be part of the base game, though, and it's frustrating that the rapport system is so opaque.

For example, I used to worry about picking insects, until I finally realized that they're just -1 to rapport. And that the max is 5500. And that a single guild daily increases it by +125. So now that I know that picking insects has such a inconsequential effect (it's just background noise), I don't care about it any more and just pick them as I like (and since there's a cooldown on the rapport change, I could pick 20 of them and be charged the -1 loss only once). But if you're on console or otherwise stuck with the default UI, there's no way to know any of this, and that's just terrible design.

I've been using this for a couple days and it's a godsend, thanks Code.

Elsonso

code65536 wrote: »

if you're on console or otherwise stuck with the default UI, there's no way to know any of this, and that's just terrible design.

It seems like they went out of their way to hide the details about the rapport system in the UI.

tc91101

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

tc91101 wrote: »

Do you think if you get max rapport and max level on one toon and get the keepsake that it will open that keepsake to all toons? It seems like it would if it's achievement related.

I can't say for sure yet, as my Bastian is still level 15, but I don't think it will. First, because achievements are character based and not account wide, and second, because it would make it totally unnecessary to level their rapport any more than once unless you really had a burning desire to role-play with them on all of your characters. I know that emotes and mementos are typically account wide, but I don't think the keepsake will be...but I'd be happy to learn I'm wrong.

The vanilla rapport bar is inscrutable and disheartening and I don't blame anyone for seeing a bunch of increase popups and then realizing that the bar hasn't moved and saying "screw this", but being able to see the numbers with the addons really helps you feel like you're making progress and not just banging your head against a wall. Maybe they didn't want to reduce friendship to a numbers game, but it's not like me dragging Bastian to every public dungeon in the known universe to swipe missing Sheogorath relics for the Mages Guild to gain his approval is particularly organic either.

Actually I think your right about the achievement not carry between toons. I like Miri's and have a main that I treasure box with sometimes. I'll have to do Miri Rapport on that toon.