About that skill "Deep Breath"

Skander

You don't pay for Dragonknight

Ragnarock41

Skander wrote: »

You don't pay for Dragonknight

You jest, I hope. My sarcasm detector is quite bad.

Skander

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

You don't pay for Dragonknight

You jest, I hope. My sarcasm detector is quite bad.

Yes sorry. Let me rephrase


You don't pay more for Dragonknight

StarOfElyon

Veg wrote: »

So the morph from inhale increases the damage of the ability. So instead of doing 80% less damage than the other time delayed AoE burst abilities it gets to do about 55% less damage then the other time delayed AoE burst abilities... and still costs twice as much... and it wont activate unless you hit someone with the initial cast...

Now call me crazy but I think that perhaps, just maaaaybe, this skill is complete garbage and no one uses it.

Perhaps it could like... oh, I don't know,

• No longer have a target requirement for activating the ability (I mean really... come on...)
• Increase the delayed damage by about 55%
• No longer stun/damage targets that are channeling when you make the initial cast (what a weird stun)
• Reduce the cost of this ability and it's other morph down to 2500-3000 magic
• Have some other effect when you cast the ability like "increase damage by x% for each person within X meters when you activate the ability" or literally any minor/major buff/debuff

Or maybe I'm just crazy and Mag DK's are totally fine with spending 4k magic on an ability that may not even do anything.

I still use it (but I consider taking it off sometimes). Comparing it to those other skills really makes me realize how underpowered it is though.

Veg

Skander wrote: »

You don't pay for Dragonknight

lmao

Vaoh

It would be way more useful in all content if it was like this:

Inhale

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused.
After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2612 Flame Damage to nearby enemies and restoring 10% of the ability's cost for each enemy hit as Magicka and Stamina.
This ability scales with your highest offensive stats.

Deep Breathe

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds.
After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2612 Flame Damage to nearby enemies and restoring 30% of the ability's cost for each enemy hit as Magicka and Stamina.
This ability scales with your highest offensive stats.

New effect
The initial hit interrupts enemies who are casting. The final explosion restores more Magicka.

Exhale

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 435 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused.
After 0.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 1742 Flame Damage to nearby enemies. Each enemy hit increases this damage by 10% and restores 10% of the ability's cost as Magicka and Stamina.
This ability scales with your highest offensive stats.

New effect
Reduces the damage. The final explosion occurs much sooner and gains damage for each enemy hit.

Note: Impulse deals 1742 Flame Damage in a 6 meter radius, for 3780 Magicka.
Inhale (all morphs) scale from your highest offensive stats, gets Mag/Stam return on the final explosion, and the final explosion deals more damage.
Deep Breathe interrupts and restores more resources.
Exhale reduces the damage but turns it into the best AoE spammable for DKs.

Would be a great skill imo and DKs would perform better in all content from it.

ArcVelarian

Veg wrote: »

So the morph from inhale increases the damage of the ability. So instead of doing 80% less damage than the other time delayed AoE burst abilities it gets to do about 55% less damage then the other time delayed AoE burst abilities... and still costs twice as much... and it wont activate unless you hit someone with the initial cast...

Now call me crazy but I think that perhaps, just maaaaybe, this skill is complete garbage and no one uses it.

Perhaps it could like... oh, I don't know,

• No longer have a target requirement for activating the ability (I mean really... come on...)
• Increase the delayed damage by about 55%
• No longer stun/damage targets that are channeling when you make the initial cast (what a weird stun)
• Reduce the cost of this ability and it's other morph down to 2500-3000 magic
• Have some other effect when you cast the ability like "increase damage by x% for each person within X meters when you activate the ability" or literally any minor/major buff/debuff

Or maybe I'm just crazy and Mag DK's are totally fine with spending 4k magic on an ability that may not even do anything.

I imagine it would make sense to have a Stamina morph that deals the delayed and increased damage without any healing while a Magicka Morph would deal 25% more damage than the current version and still heal.

Hotdog_23

My post form a thread I started about Inhale here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570657/dk-inhale-and-its-morphs-requested-change#latest

Never see any guide build that uses the inhale skill or it’s morphs. Only seen it used once in a PVP tank player and once by someone trying to use it as a dps skill in the last year and probably longer then that if being honest.

Can it be changed into a better delayed burst type skill like the new classes have. MagDK and StamDK are near the bottom of almost every tier list of late.

Current tool tips as from https://eso-skillbook.com/

Dragonknight

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.
Total damage 3119 Damage vs. cost output 3119/4050 = 0.77 damage for every 1 point of magic spent

Draw Essence
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 150% of the damage caused. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 1742 Flame Damage to nearby enemies and restoring 10% of the ability's cost for each enemy hit as Magicka.
New effect
Initial hit heals for more. Final explosion refunds Magicka for each enemy struck.
Total damage 2624 Cost vs. damage output 2624/4050 = 0.647damage for every 1 point of magic spent

For reference here are the tool tips on the 2 new classes delayed burst damage skills

Necromancer

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.
Damage vs. cost output 4737/2295 = 2.064 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.
Damage vs. cost output 3600/2700 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent

Warden

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.
Damage vs. cost output 4264/2066 = 2.063 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent, don't forget if fires a second time free. 4264x2/2066 = 4.125 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent

Deep Fissure
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2430 Magicka
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 3240 Magic Damage to enemies in front of you. Enemies damaged are afflicted with Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5948 for 6 seconds.
New effect
Applies Major Breach to enemies hit, reducing their Physical and Spell Resistance.
Damage vs. cost output 3240/2430 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent

First the cost is over the top to damage ratio when compared to the other 2 classes. Makes one wonder if when skills where standardized that DK's inhale was overlooked somehow. My proposal,

1. Get rid of the target requirement and upfront small damage and make it all burst damage at the end.
2. Change one morph to stamina and one magic based.
Stamina based can be either poison to fit the poison theme or physical damage and the Magic can be only fire damage to fit the fire theme of DK’s.
3. The secondary effects would need to be changed also but I will leave that up to you and the community to think on.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS you didn’t fix the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

ResidentContrarian

"Make one morph stamina" when the skill on live server right now can reach 10-12k tooltip? That a serious suggestion or a joke?

All you would need to do is use that skill, uppercut once, and use executioner. Insert procs and no one would be able to counter it.

I think the game needs less of that kind of play...but hey...maybe I am the minority.

Can clearly see why PvP is in the sad state it's in this patch.

Ragnarock41

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

"Make one morph stamina" when the skill on live server right now can reach 10-12k tooltip? That a serious suggestion or a joke?

All you would need to do is use that skill, uppercut once, and use executioner. Insert procs and no one would be able to counter it.

I think the game needs less of that kind of play...but hey...maybe I am the minority.

Can clearly see why PvP is in the sad state it's in this patch.

Care to explain why it would be any different than a stam warden or stam necro doing the same thing with their timed burst skills? And how fair is it to balance classes around proc sets? Do you realize a build reaching 12k tooltip on inhale will reach a lot higher TTs with blastbones or deep fissure since they scale better? Do you also realize stamina builds also do not get bonus AoE fire damage like magDks do?

ResidentContrarian

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

"Make one morph stamina" when the skill on live server right now can reach 10-12k tooltip? That a serious suggestion or a joke?

All you would need to do is use that skill, uppercut once, and use executioner. Insert procs and no one would be able to counter it.

I think the game needs less of that kind of play...but hey...maybe I am the minority.

Can clearly see why PvP is in the sad state it's in this patch.

Care to explain why it would be any different than a stam warden or stam necro doing the same thing with their timed burst skills? And how fair is it to balance classes around proc sets? Do you realize a build reaching 12k tooltip on inhale will reach a lot higher TTs with blastbones or deep fissure since they scale better? Do you also realize stamina builds also do not get bonus AoE fire damage like magDks do?

Seriously doubt that a 6% boost would edge out the increased weapon damage, ability to stack even more damage because sustain is easier, and don't forget 2H also has follow up (10% damage), stam DK has corrosive...yeah...

As for the warden and necro argument, never said those classes weren't an issues, but even then inhale is superior since it's 360 degree targeting. You can roll from blastbones/fissure, but you won't roll from inhale's burst.

But you're entitled to your opinion.

Ragnarock41

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

"Make one morph stamina" when the skill on live server right now can reach 10-12k tooltip? That a serious suggestion or a joke?

All you would need to do is use that skill, uppercut once, and use executioner. Insert procs and no one would be able to counter it.

I think the game needs less of that kind of play...but hey...maybe I am the minority.

Can clearly see why PvP is in the sad state it's in this patch.

Care to explain why it would be any different than a stam warden or stam necro doing the same thing with their timed burst skills? And how fair is it to balance classes around proc sets? Do you realize a build reaching 12k tooltip on inhale will reach a lot higher TTs with blastbones or deep fissure since they scale better? Do you also realize stamina builds also do not get bonus AoE fire damage like magDks do?

Seriously doubt that a 6% boost would edge out the increased weapon damage, ability to stack even more damage because sustain is easier, and don't forget 2H also has follow up (10% damage), stam DK has corrosive...yeah...

As for the warden and necro argument, never said those classes weren't an issues, but even then inhale is superior since it's 360 degree targeting. You can roll from blastbones/fissure, but you won't roll from inhale's burst.

But you're entitled to your opinion.

Its 360 degree targeting, with practically melee reach on any direction. The follow up passive and the stamina scaling also applies for deep fissure and blastbones stamina morphs aswell, they are not stamina DK specific things so I don't see the point of you bringing them up. The Deep Breath morph does not have an impressive tooltip in relation to its cost, range and abilities similar to it. Also the base morph inhale has even worse damage scaling, so unless its stamina morph similarly had a damage boosting component to it, it just couldn't reach the same tooltips to begin with. In its current state deep breath is used mostly on 1vX magDk builds that aim to kill lots of bad and squishy players. It will not chase targets like blastbones and it will not hit a 20 meter wide cone like deep fissure does.

So unless you're an overland mob or a player who gets 1vX'd on a regular basis, I don't see the big deal.

Veg

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

So the morph from inhale increases the damage of the ability. So instead of doing 80% less damage than the other time delayed AoE burst abilities it gets to do about 55% less damage then the other time delayed AoE burst abilities... and still costs twice as much... and it wont activate unless you hit someone with the initial cast...

Now call me crazy but I think that perhaps, just maaaaybe, this skill is complete garbage and no one uses it.

Perhaps it could like... oh, I don't know,

• No longer have a target requirement for activating the ability (I mean really... come on...)
• Increase the delayed damage by about 55%
• No longer stun/damage targets that are channeling when you make the initial cast (what a weird stun)
• Reduce the cost of this ability and it's other morph down to 2500-3000 magic
• Have some other effect when you cast the ability like "increase damage by x% for each person within X meters when you activate the ability" or literally any minor/major buff/debuff

Or maybe I'm just crazy and Mag DK's are totally fine with spending 4k magic on an ability that may not even do anything.

I imagine it would make sense to have a Stamina morph that deals the delayed and increased damage without any healing while a Magicka Morph would deal 25% more damage than the current version and still heal.

The changes we are asking for are to just further push each morph of the ability to it's morphs description. The devs might actually do that. But if start asking for stamina deep breath, stamina whip, changes in passives and changes to sustain then they probably wont do anything or god forbid another stone fist.

Also, a stamina deep breath would 100% result in bomber DKs running around at 300mph popping people with 10-15k x2 AoE bursts. That would be "DB + shalk warden" on steroids.

Mag DK at least runs the risks of low mobility, low healing over time (healing per second for your wombo combo) if any HoT's, lower damage on leap and almost 0 armor if they wear light armor for damage.

Mag DK already lost take flight, and our DoT abilities. No reason Deep Breath should also go to stamina. You gotta fight for your stam DK elsewhere. I would push for physical damage on choking talons. But trying to get a stamina inhale will never work.