"I'm entitled to kill you" a strange PVP attitude

marshill88

I have encountered several times this bizarre thing where players in PVP fail to kill me and then whisper to me a ridicule as if I'm the dummy for being able to withstand their attacks. There are PVP players out there who feel that, due to their incredible skill and superiority, every single player should presumptively die by their hand, and if this doesn't happen, the person they were unable to kill is a dolt. It is a strange type of attitude, and I'd love to know if anyone else has encountered it.

olsborg

Only thing I personally find annoying is if they have some easy tanky auto-heal build that clearly is carried by class or sets or both of the above. Not designed to kill anyone, but just to tank someone, its boring.

Klad

Yeah I've seen it too, the Entitled that deserve new victims every hour or so...problem is they all left a very long time ago, what's left are just the entitled

SpiritofESO

Jackey

Trash talk whispers in PvP is pretty toxic.
I've never had them call me out for withstanding their damage. But I do sometimes receive the occasional "I'll beat you in a 1v1 duel" whisper after I've killed them.

WrathOfInnos

Yeah, they’re probably not the majority, but they are certainly vocal. If they can’t kill you the next step is to go to the forums and ask for nerfs to your class or gear.

The worst is when someone thinks they’re entitled to 1vX. If you’re outnumbered 5 to 1 you should lose 99% of the time. Then you have solo players losing to groups and ranting about cross-healing and group buffs. Obviously if you don’t have allies you will be at a large disadvantage in PVP.

marshill88

SpiritofESO wrote: »

I have a solution for this: HUD Chat OFF.

Ignore the fools.

haha i hear you, but truth be told, i get a good laugh when a message like this comes in, its like getting a PVP promotion.

Vevvev

I know the thought process that gets them to that point and I kinda feel bad for them in a way, but that's just me. If I die so be it, and I won't whisper the person that did it unless I like their character's appearance or fighting style. There are some PVPers out there with really nice outfits and dye schemes on their outfits, and I struggle not to copy them or take some inspiration and apply it to my own wardrobe lol. Also some players have some builds or tactics I can't help but admire.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

I warned folks that unkillable tanks will be the last nail in the coffin of an already dying pvp. But instead the made proc scale off health making the problem twice as bad.

Goregrinder

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

I warned folks that unkillable tanks will be the last nail in the coffin of an already dying pvp. But instead the made proc scale off health making the problem twice as bad.

Well ZOS had over a year and this is their solution, so they made it clear what they want PVPers to do. So if you can't beat em, join em. Once the degenerate builds are tested and released, I'm surely going to be running some of those builds.

PigofSteel

Yep unkillable people are just killing pvp its plague, exploits and cheats.

marshill88

PigofSteel wrote: »

Yep unkillable people are just killing pvp its plague, exploits and cheats.

unkillable people....what is that? You mean that no one can kill them, or that you can't kill them? are you supposed to be able to kill anyone 1vs1 in a purely hypothetical pvp system?

jircris11

marshill88 wrote: »

I have encountered several times this bizarre thing where players in PVP fail to kill me and then whisper to me a ridicule as if I'm the dummy for being able to withstand their attacks. There are PVP players out there who feel that, due to their incredible skill and superiority, every single player should presumptively die by their hand, and if this doesn't happen, the person they were unable to kill is a dolt. It is a strange type of attitude, and I'd love to know if anyone else has encountered it.

Sooooo a Karen? Good news you can ligaly kill this one!

PizzaCat82

I'm on console we don't message people when we pvp. At least not unless we're really bored or angry.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

marshill88 wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

Yep unkillable people are just killing pvp its plague, exploits and cheats.

unkillable people....what is that? You mean that no one can kill them, or that you can't kill them? are you supposed to be able to kill anyone 1vs1 in a purely hypothetical pvp system?

The pvp game is always an arms race between time to kill and survivability. However time to kill must always be on top to some degree or the entire premise of pvp flops on the floor like a dying fish out of war. If survivability is easy and higher than damage then there is zero reason to be damage. Imagine groups that won't die, just hiting each other and not dying cause they're all running the same build.
You can sometimes see these effects in battlegrounds where teams do Ludacris damage to eachother and no one dies. Where the game either ends by the counter or everyone quits. Then some post in the forum, new damage record X million damage and 3 kills.

jle30303

And meanwhile the reason that the BG ends is because the one person that *was* playing the actual game rules has been running around, as they should have been, capturing the flags or stealing relics and scoring most of the team points without actually making that many kills... but they would have either died more often, or killed more enemy players, if the others had also been playing to the game rules instead of pretending every game is Deathmatch.

Wolf_Eye

jle30303 wrote: »

And meanwhile the reason that the BG ends is because the one person that *was* playing the actual game rules has been running around, as they should have been, capturing the flags or stealing relics and scoring most of the team points without actually making that many kills... but they would have either died more often, or killed more enemy players, if the others had also been playing to the game rules instead of pretending every game is Deathmatch.

Perhaps it's time to start awarding triple the medals for players that do the focus goal of the match. Capturing flags, stealing relics, etc.

Kadraeus

jle30303 wrote: »

And meanwhile the reason that the BG ends is because the one person that *was* playing the actual game rules has been running around, as they should have been, capturing the flags or stealing relics and scoring most of the team points without actually making that many kills... but they would have either died more often, or killed more enemy players, if the others had also been playing to the game rules instead of pretending every game is Deathmatch.

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes. I wish they'd put some sort of explanation in the loading screen or something. The problem is everything looks the same but the only thing signifying that it's a different game mode is the name. So, I'm left there trying to play while having no clue what I'm supposed to do.

I did figure it out for a few games that my team actually won or almost won. But then there were times where I was actually trying to follow the objective (or didn't know what the objective even was) and someone on our team complained because we were losing, when sometimes there really isn't anything I can do if the other team is much better.

Malpheus_Prime

Kadraeus wrote: »

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes.

It's pretty clear that battle grounds are mini games to teach you elements of PVP? Domination/Crazy king are just flag capturing exercises... and you don't see the similarities between chaos ball and carrying a scroll?

They are mini-games of the longer game. They also last 12 minutes max for exactly that intent?

nukk3r

Kadraeus wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

And meanwhile the reason that the BG ends is because the one person that *was* playing the actual game rules has been running around, as they should have been, capturing the flags or stealing relics and scoring most of the team points without actually making that many kills... but they would have either died more often, or killed more enemy players, if the others had also been playing to the game rules instead of pretending every game is Deathmatch.

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes. I wish they'd put some sort of explanation in the loading screen or something. The problem is everything looks the same but the only thing signifying that it's a different game mode is the name. So, I'm left there trying to play while having no clue what I'm supposed to do.

I did figure it out for a few games that my team actually won or almost won. But then there were times where I was actually trying to follow the objective (or didn't know what the objective even was) and someone on our team complained because we were losing, when sometimes there really isn't anything I can do if the other team is much better.

It's implied that you have prior experience with multiplayer games of the past 25 years or at least outdoor children's games. BG modes are just standard modes with different names, they're either capture the flag or king of the hill variants. But ESO does a bad job explaining this things to new players.

Gorilla

Jackey wrote: »

Trash talk whispers in PvP is pretty toxic.
I've never had them call me out for withstanding their damage. But I do sometimes receive the occasional "I'll beat you in a 1v1 duel" whisper after I've killed them.

I invite them to come visit me. None seem too keen on the offer.

jle30303

"Domination" - hold certain capture points for as long as you can, there are up to four of them. Points are hold for being in control of flags at every time checkpoint, which is every few seconds.

"Crazy King" - similar, but the objective points move from time to time (i.e. disappear, and then respawn as "un-owned" elsewhere), and the game starts out with only one, then adds a second, then a third, then a fourth.

(In both cases, the more you hold, then either you have to split your team to defend them, or you abandon them - which itself can be a strategy in CK, gambling that if the enemy takes one from you, they won't hold it for long before it disappears anyway and a new (blank) one spawns elsewhere on the map for you to capture.)

"Chaosball" - The titular object, the Chaosball, starts off in the centre of the map. You gain points for your team as long as you hold it, but it damages you while you hold it.

"Capture the Relic" - Each team has a "base", and each base has a notional "relic". You have to capture the enemy relic (i.e. bring it back to your own base) and defend yours (because while your base does not contain your own relic, you can't turn in the enemy one). If a stolen relic's carrier is killed, it returns home automatically if picked up by a member of its own team.

All of the above have some relevance to Cyrodiil alliance warfare; sometimes it is more important to capture and hold territory (keeps, castles and outlying resources) than to simply hunt for and kill enemy players, and objectives can have a chance to change depending on what else you hold, or whether you suddenly have to abandon a campaign to capture an enemy fortress because an important fortress of your own comes under attack. And Cyrodiil also has the Elder Scrolls - items which provide a buff to the team when stored in a "home" fortress (within your own notional territory, as opposed to a "captured" one which is within territory that would normally be considered enemy territory but is currently under your control) - but, like the Chaosball, provide a debuff when carried: specifically, you can't ride a horse, or use Cyrodiil's internal teleportation system so if you capture an Elder Scroll - whether it's an enemy one, or recovering your own - you have to run it slowly back to your own base, meanwhile the enemy who DO have the benefits of horse riding and teleportation system are better able to catch up with you, so you need a zerg-sized group guard to keep you alive and running and fight off enemies.

Meanwhile, the free-for-all of Deathmatch is more suited to a comparison with Imperial City PVP than to Cyrodiil PVP.

jrgray93

Yep. Can't be good at PvP without man children sending hate tells afterwards. It do be like that.

spotzhopz

Gorilla wrote: »

Jackey wrote: »

Trash talk whispers in PvP is pretty toxic.
I've never had them call me out for withstanding their damage. But I do sometimes receive the occasional "I'll beat you in a 1v1 duel" whisper after I've killed them.

I invite them to come visit me. None seem too keen on the offer.

I like to tell them to meet me in "random city i decide on in that moment" and then just never show up

ArchMikem

I've only been hate whispered from losing. Mainly how I still suck after all this time.

....I'm not denying it. Then again I didn't get to August Palatine by just losing fights.

Minyassa

jrgray93 wrote: »

Yep. Can't be good at PvP without man children sending hate tells afterwards. It do be like that.

Can't be bad it without that, either. First day I set foot in Cyrodiil and got mowed down while fishing, I immediately got a hate whisper about being too easy to kill.

PigofSteel

marshill88 wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

Yep unkillable people are just killing pvp its plague, exploits and cheats.

unkillable people....what is that? You mean that no one can kill them, or that you can't kill them? are you supposed to be able to kill anyone 1vs1 in a purely hypothetical pvp system?

I can show u couple of clips i made 1 vs 7 all buddies 2 star above so they are not bad players... People disappering out of thin air, walking trough forts etc... All reported with clip provided 1 year ago bit they still play and still doing...

Kadraeus

Malpheus_Prime wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes.

It's pretty clear that battle grounds are mini games to teach you elements of PVP? Domination/Crazy king are just flag capturing exercises... and you don't see the similarities between chaos ball and carrying a scroll?

They are mini-games of the longer game. They also last 12 minutes max for exactly that intent?

This doesn't help at all, and I know I'm not the only person who doesn't really understand the modes. Half the people I played with the last time I did Battlegrounds just ran around and tried to kill people when that wasn't the objective. Some people probably just want to kill people (Deathmatch is most enjoyable gamemode when you're actually able to kill anyone). Otherwise, I think people just don't understand the modes, and the reason is because the only in-game explanation of the game modes that I'm aware of is through npc dialogue, which requires you leaving the game. They should just put a 1 or 2 sentence explanation of the mode when you load in because you can't expect everyone to talk to the npc to learn every mode, let alone remember each one when it's actually time to play them.

nukk3r

Kadraeus wrote: »

Malpheus_Prime wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes.

It's pretty clear that battle grounds are mini games to teach you elements of PVP? Domination/Crazy king are just flag capturing exercises... and you don't see the similarities between chaos ball and carrying a scroll?

They are mini-games of the longer game. They also last 12 minutes max for exactly that intent?

This doesn't help at all, and I know I'm not the only person who doesn't really understand the modes. Half the people I played with the last time I did Battlegrounds just ran around and tried to kill people when that wasn't the objective. Some people probably just want to kill people (Deathmatch is most enjoyable gamemode when you're actually able to kill anyone). Otherwise, I think people just don't understand the modes, and the reason is because the only in-game explanation of the game modes that I'm aware of is through npc dialogue, which requires you leaving the game. They should just put a 1 or 2 sentence explanation of the mode when you load in because you can't expect everyone to talk to the npc to learn every mode, let alone remember each one when it's actually time to play them.

You're making it sound more complicated than it is. Tactical modes boil down to "get the relic, don't let the enemies get the relic" and "get the flag, don't let the enemies get the flag". Not that hard to remember considering there are only four modes.

Kadraeus

nukk3r wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

And meanwhile the reason that the BG ends is because the one person that *was* playing the actual game rules has been running around, as they should have been, capturing the flags or stealing relics and scoring most of the team points without actually making that many kills... but they would have either died more often, or killed more enemy players, if the others had also been playing to the game rules instead of pretending every game is Deathmatch.

I don't even understand the objective for a lot of the BG modes. I wish they'd put some sort of explanation in the loading screen or something. The problem is everything looks the same but the only thing signifying that it's a different game mode is the name. So, I'm left there trying to play while having no clue what I'm supposed to do.

I did figure it out for a few games that my team actually won or almost won. But then there were times where I was actually trying to follow the objective (or didn't know what the objective even was) and someone on our team complained because we were losing, when sometimes there really isn't anything I can do if the other team is much better.

It's implied that you have prior experience with multiplayer games of the past 25 years or at least outdoor children's games. BG modes are just standard modes with different names, they're either capture the flag or king of the hill variants. But ESO does a bad job explaining this things to new players.

The implication that you have prior experience with multiplayer games isn't a valid excuse. You can't expect people to just understand how your game is played based on the assumption that they've played other games before. For some people, this may be the first game they've ever played. That's why 90% of games have tutorials at the start that tell you how to do simple things like walk or look around. People who play games a lot understand these things without needing to be told, but if you put the controller or keyboard in the hands of someone who hasn't played any games (or is using different controls than they're used to) they're going to need these basic things explained to them otherwise they'll just get frustrated.

I've played other multiplayer games before, such as Call of Duty and Star Wars Battlefront. However, as you've said, the game modes have different names. Plus, some of them have different rules. None of the gamemodes that I've played in COD or Battlefront had three teams, and that was the main point of confusion for me when I tried Battlegrounds. I just wasn't used to it, so it took me a while to figure out what I was meant to do. Combine that with the pressure of being thrown into the game with tons of other people who already know what they're doing while you're trying not to let your team down, then it's going to be much more difficult to figure out the objective. Personally, I've had bad experiences with irl team-based games when I was a kid, so it takes considerably more effort for me to put myself in a multiplayer game where I'm part of a team, and it takes much longer for me to get used to it. That doesn't mean that I don't want to enjoy these games, because they totally can be a lot of fun once I know what I'm doing and people aren't being jerks.

Amottica

So you are a dolt because you did not die but they were brilliant because they could not achieve their goal of killing your character?

I think that question sums things up well. The issue is with them and their failure. They are merely reflecting their shortcomings upon you.

Oh, and this is a very good example of comment not worthy of a reply. I tend to avoid replying to odd comments in general and especially in PvP as it tends to be pointless to try to have a discussion with them.