The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Anyone tried building a proctank that stacks weapon damage? [PvP]
divnyi
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The whole thing about this proc set changes is to balance PvP, right? As damage procs scale with max(weapon_damage, spell_damage), there is no reason not to put all stats into max health, eat jewels of misrule and pick all weapon damage enchants, mundus, and maybe pick ~3 medium armor pieces.
Tell me where I'm wrong. Will we still see 30-33k HP proc tanks after this changes go live?
Tell me where I'm wrong. Will we still see 30-33k HP proc tanks after this changes go live?
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole thing about this proc set changes is to balance PvP, right? As damage procs scale with max(weapon_damage, spell_damage), there is no reason not to put all stats into max health, eat jewels of misrule and pick all weapon damage enchants, mundus, and maybe pick ~3 medium armor pieces.
Tell me where I'm wrong. Will we still see 30-33k HP proc tanks after this changes go live?
Might still be viable, but I imagine it'll be way more balanced than what can be achieved on live.“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”2 -
AgentUriel✭✭✭It's already possible now to do it at 38k health but come next patch that hp pool will probably drop to compensate for damage. We will have to see though.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, but they will figure out you don't need to stack WD for Infiltrator+MDW, as discussed in the other thread. Hopefully this strategy will not become oppressive like the old malaproc builds. The nerfs to HP regen and warden arctic are significant blows, but necro malaproc still looks heinous.Will we still see 30-33k HP proc tanks after this changes go live?PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭AgentUriel wrote: »It's already possible now to do it at 38k health but come next patch that hp pool will probably drop to compensate for damage. We will have to see though.
But that's the deal: you don't acquire weapon damage in exchange for HP. No reason to go stamina stat would mean dumping all into WD and HP.Edited by divnyi on May 12, 2021 3:30PM0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@xylena_lazarow there is no proof that that combo can reach even 20k burst on player. A player in that thread tested it in PTS. I have no reason to believe that combination will show anything remotely close to Zaan+Vatedestro+Syvarra burst numbers. More like crystal shards + crushing weapon numbers of burst.
Now if stacking WD on tanks will mean old builds are intact, then this whole thing with scaling doesn't mean much to the meta.1 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Just saying it's something people are gonna do to adapt their malaproc builds. Not saying it's Vatesh Destro level stupid free damage. FWIW pretty sure we play pretty different corners of the PvP world because I've literally never seen Syvarra on a death recap, the only procs that really threatened me were Vatesh Destro and Caluurion. Meanwhile, plenty of kills from Crystal Wep, so I'll gladly take a free Crystal Wep from my proc sets.@xylena_lazarow there is no proof that that combo can reach even 20k burst on player. A player in that thread tested it in PTS. I have no reason to believe that combination will show anything remotely close to Zaan+Vatedestro+Syvarra burst numbers. More like crystal shards + crushing weapon numbers of burst.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »I've literally never seen Syvarra on a death recap, the only procs that really threatened me
I've even seen it on magsorc. Magsorc!0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Yes, but they will figure out you don't need to stack WD for Infiltrator+MDW, as discussed in the other thread. Hopefully this strategy will not become oppressive like the old malaproc builds. The nerfs to HP regen and warden arctic are significant blows, but necro malaproc still looks heinous.Will we still see 30-33k HP proc tanks after this changes go live?
Melee heavy attack builds are not really popular for a reason.
You really have to play one to see why.
You have to set it up,have things like off balanced of target, and even then due to positional desyncs your heavies often can just miss.
It's really not as simple as just slapping on a couple sets and taping down left click.
Even lighting staff variant relies on multiple factors like having them inside your wall of elements etc for max dmg.
Also most classes don't have access to easy high duration empower, most sources are 3 seconds meaning you have to reapply it constantly.
Anyway, heavy attack builds are not as easy as most people would think.5 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭From what I observed on PTS, full proc setups go medium armor(usually stam DK) on rely on dodge and shuffle for defense, so they want enough stamina to keep the dodge machine going. So they have around 25k-30k HP.
Most stamina on PTS builds go 5 medium , 2 heavy regardless to if its proc or non proc setup. Heavy got indirect nerf via the nerf to health regen. Having no penalty + 10% AOE damage reduction after dodge, makes medium the best PVP armor ATM.3 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭You can reach 6.1k spell/weapon damage in heavy armor and operate with two proc sets, and slot a mythic item.Edited by Sahidom on May 13, 2021 12:49PM3
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can reach 6.1k spell/weapon damage in heavy armor and operate with two proc sets, and slot a mythic item.
This.. sounds bad
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MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can reach 6.1k spell/weapon damage in heavy armor and operate with two proc sets, and slot a mythic item.This.. sounds bad
But you're sacrificing max health and recovery somewhat to get to those wep/spell damage numbers to have your procs at full power. You don't have to do that on live.Edited by MurderMostFoul on May 13, 2021 1:23PM“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”2 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »But you're sacrificing max health and recovery somewhat to get to those wep/spell damage numbers to have your procs at full power. You don't have to do that on live.
You aren't sacrificing max health, only recoveries. That's the issue really.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lughlongarm wrote: »From what I observed on PTS, full proc setups go medium armor(usually stam DK) on rely on dodge and shuffle for defense, so they want enough stamina to keep the dodge machine going. So they have around 25k-30k HP.
Most stamina on PTS builds go 5 medium , 2 heavy regardless to if its proc or non proc setup. Heavy got indirect nerf via the nerf to health regen. Having no penalty + 10% AOE damage reduction after dodge, makes medium the best PVP armor ATM.
And why are you thinking about things in the greater context, or seeing what actually works in a combat setting?
Tanks bad, procs bad
I don't know what you don't get
/sXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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I have, and this is why I'm actually excited to make it work, as opposed to the concerns in the other thread that it'll seem overpowered. In chaotic laggy Cyro, I'd much prefer trying to land dw heavies that I can spam for free, over random fail cast time ults like Dawnbreaker. I've been able to get 16k burst vs 24k armor on a build that wasn't fully optimized, but the more important thing is that this was done in heavy without stacking wep dmg.Melee heavy attack builds are not really popular for a reason. You really have to play one to see why. You have to set it up,have things like off balanced of target, and even then due to positional desyncs your heavies often can just miss. It's really not as simple as just slapping on a couple sets and taping down left click.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps1 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭
I dont see why it's bad. You can sport 6.1k reliably and slap on Malacath Band to make up the difference in damage of the mere 500 SD/WD; and still sport decent resistance; although over healing will be the new resistance in the macro combat system.
Also. This set wasn't scaled and may be worthy pairing with Crimson.
https://eso-sets.com/set/draugrs-heritage
Edited by Sahidom on May 13, 2021 3:07PM1 -
Cuddler✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy5yV27vScI
The stats are at 3:25: 44k health and over 9k WD with three proc sets.
The video is from before the threshold increase to 6.5WD, but the proc tooltips are still obviously far higher than on Live.
I would personally go with Red Mountain + Caluurion's + Selene. The mismatched stamina and magicka sets do not really matter when you already have more than enough WD.
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xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Check out the full hp one shot in the duel at about 6:19... then watch how remarkably fair the build looks in open world right afterward. Kristofer is very good. Not sure what to make of this, but on the bright side, Sun Shield is finally good!The stats are at 3:25: 44k health and over 9k WD with three proc sets. The video is from before the threshold increase to 6.5WD, but the proc tooltips are still obviously far higher than on Live.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont see why it's bad.
It's bad for balance. Once people will understand how to build bruisers with procs, we will see the same old meta. Well, almost the same really.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
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I think you underestimate the extent to which most of the worst offenders were nerfed, on top of the nerfed scaling.
Tanky bruisers will likely play around with stats more next patch, with vate 2h sprinkled on top.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but that depends on how one looks at it. If Joe Average can take this build and go toe to toe with a top end player, then Joe Average will see this as improving balance. Just saying....
ZOS has made a big noise about lowering the ceiling and raising the floor after all.0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but that depends on how one looks at it. If Joe Average can take this build and go toe to toe with a top end player, then Joe Average will see this as improving balance. Just saying....
ZOS has made a big noise about lowering the ceiling and raising the floor after all.
Yep, if the devs suddenly add a bunch of RNG to the game, and suddenly average joe is started to fall in the same ranks as previously top ranked players, average joe is going to definitely feel like the game is suddenly balanced because now they are ranked where they think they should be, even when they shouldn't be ranked the same as a season PVP who has played on many competitive teams at a high level.
What happens there is that the previously high ranked players are losing ranked because more is getting taken out of their hands and put in the hands of RNG. Which is not exactly the same as balance, but can definitely be perceived that way by an average joe.
As an example, I like to compare CSGO and Valorant's shooting mechanics to each other. In CSGO, you can memorize weapon spray patterns (with a small margin for error), so a player who spends 1000 hours learning the patterns of each weapon they use, will be able to spray with that weapon very effectively. In Valorant, you can memorize the spray pattern up until about the 6th or 7th bullet (depending on the gun), and then RNG takes over, and the weapon sway becomes randomized. So even if youw anted to spend 1000 hours memorizing it, you can only memorize the first 6 or 7 shot, then that's were the skill ceiling ends.
That means after the 6th bullet, a player who just installed the game, and a player who has been playing for 6 months, both spraying at each other, has the same chance at winning that fight after 6 bullets...then the game randomly decides who wins the fight, rather than the individual player's skill with spraying deciding it. ZOS doing damage or healing for a player is very similar to this...takes the skill out of the hands of the player and puts it into the hands of the game.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goregrinder wrote: »
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but that depends on how one looks at it. If Joe Average can take this build and go toe to toe with a top end player, then Joe Average will see this as improving balance. Just saying....
ZOS has made a big noise about lowering the ceiling and raising the floor after all.
Yep, if the devs suddenly add a bunch of RNG to the game, and suddenly average joe is started to fall in the same ranks as previously top ranked players, average joe is going to definitely feel like the game is suddenly balanced because now they are ranked where they think they should be, even when they shouldn't be ranked the same as a season PVP who has played on many competitive teams at a high level.
What happens there is that the previously high ranked players are losing ranked because more is getting taken out of their hands and put in the hands of RNG. Which is not exactly the same as balance, but can definitely be perceived that way by an average joe.
As an example, I like to compare CSGO and Valorant's shooting mechanics to each other. In CSGO, you can memorize weapon spray patterns (with a small margin for error), so a player who spends 1000 hours learning the patterns of each weapon they use, will be able to spray with that weapon very effectively. In Valorant, you can memorize the spray pattern up until about the 6th or 7th bullet (depending on the gun), and then RNG takes over, and the weapon sway becomes randomized. So even if youw anted to spend 1000 hours memorizing it, you can only memorize the first 6 or 7 shot, then that's were the skill ceiling ends.
That means after the 6th bullet, a player who just installed the game, and a player who has been playing for 6 months, both spraying at each other, has the same chance at winning that fight after 6 bullets...then the game randomly decides who wins the fight, rather than the individual player's skill with spraying deciding it. ZOS doing damage or healing for a player is very similar to this...takes the skill out of the hands of the player and puts it into the hands of the game.
So, get rid of Crit?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Stevie6✭✭✭✭Yeah, I would advocate for no crit and increase base spell damage between 5k to 10k. Rng always got me on crit. Even if I had a 50 % chance to crit, 99 times out of a hundred I would always fall into the other 50% and never crit. Crit doesn’t work in my case. So, yeah raising base damage, skill damage, and proc set damage is the way to go. Before anybody says wait wait power creep, I would say Raise the floor and forget the ceiling. I don’t play with ceiling people anyway...just solo. End the finger twitch and button smashing mania! Only need one skill to rule them all...hehe...
well that will never happen...just dreaming...😁0
https://youtu.be/rLJAkGxJG6E