Imperial Race is still locked behind paywall

Kiralyn2000

Aertew wrote: »

Imperial race is paywalled.
Imperial race was a base game race for other Elder Scroll games like Skyrim.
Imperial race should be base game.

Starlock wrote: »

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

Ooooor, the answer is that ESO was built around the three-faction war, with each faction including 3 races from the non-Imperial sections of Tamriel. Cyrodil - the home of the Imperials - was the center of this PvP activity.

Allowing players to play Imperials, in one of the three non-Imperial factions vying to take over the Imperial capital, would make little sense.


(also, mainline TES games =/= MMO. Just like any other spinoff games wouldn't be mainline TES games, either.)

Ippokrates

Yeah, Imperials are getting better with each patch (have one DK, great guy) but the real value of WHOLE 2100 crown packet are outstanding outfits. Seriosly, IMHO they far better developed than all race outfits from pre-TU ESO.

Oh, and newcomers need only to buy one class: Necro, because Warden is in standard game with Morrowind.

Azurya

you don´t really need, but you obvious want it!!!!
and then you you must get yourself a job, earn money and buy it, thereafter you can be lazy again.
just make it happen.

driosketch

Anonx31st wrote: »

Imperial is a collector edition item. Support ZOS and just pay for it if you want to unlock it.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more transparent example of a game developer removing features from a base game release to sell it to the customer at a premium.

Nothing was removed. Imperials were a bonus for people who bought the CE version of the game.

So looked at a different way, if you wanted the Imperial race, but didn't want a cheap horse, Imperial style unlocked in outfits, a marriage mechanic, and some treasure maps, you can buy Imperial race separately without getting the delux version of the game.

Now if you want to gripe, Any Race, Any Alliance, was originally a preorder bonus only. Then it was sold separately. Then they bundled it. I think that's a bigger deal.

BlueRaven

driosketch wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

Imperial is a collector edition item. Support ZOS and just pay for it if you want to unlock it.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more transparent example of a game developer removing features from a base game release to sell it to the customer at a premium.

Nothing was removed. Imperials were a bonus for people who bought the CE version of the game.

So looked at a different way, if you wanted the Imperial race, but didn't want a cheap horse, Imperial style unlocked in outfits, a marriage mechanic, and some treasure maps, you can buy Imperial race separately without getting the delux version of the game.

Now if you want to gripe, Any Race, Any Alliance, was originally a preorder bonus only. Then it was sold separately. Then they bundled it. I think that's a bigger deal.

Yeah, I think ‘any race any alliance’ staying a preorder bonus would have been awesome.

Anonx31st

driosketch wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

Imperial is a collector edition item. Support ZOS and just pay for it if you want to unlock it.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more transparent example of a game developer removing features from a base game release to sell it to the customer at a premium.

Nothing was removed. Imperials were a bonus for people who bought the CE version of the game.

So looked at a different way, if you wanted the Imperial race, but didn't want a cheap horse, Imperial style unlocked in outfits, a marriage mechanic, and some treasure maps, you can buy Imperial race separately without getting the delux version of the game.

Now if you want to gripe, Any Race, Any Alliance, was originally a preorder bonus only. Then it was sold separately. Then they bundled it. I think that's a bigger deal.

My Imperial horse Mr. Buttercup isn't cheap...

Aertew

jaws343 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I am very confused, is his argument that since they made IC free they should make imperials free too? I can't see the logical jump here.

Imperial race is paywalled.
Imperial race was a base game race for other Elder Scroll games like Skyrim.
Imperial race should be base game.

People shouldn't be against it as the devs already have many sources of income in the game.

Imperial city DLC was made free as well, so it wouldn't be the first

TL;DR make imperial race part of the base game.

ESO is not Skyrim. What was base game in Skyrim is entirely irrelevant for ESO.

You know what else was base game with Skyrim, the Solitude and Markarth portions of the world map. You know what requires payment to play? The Solitude and Markarth portions of the game map.

Again, almost as if it takes more work to make a entire new map than a single race.

Stop strawmaning.

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

I get that the company needs to make money to support and its MMO. But my main point is that 1. Paying for a race is just kinda dumb. 2. Even if you were to buy it you don't get as much value as something like a expansion.
Also, the devs aleady have alot of stuff made like Expansions, dungeons, mounts, cosmetics, crown crates, and the smaller zones and DLC.

The main point of this post is thst ESO is already heavily monetized and there isn't really a big reason to make people pay for imperial.

driosketch

Anonx31st wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

Imperial is a collector edition item. Support ZOS and just pay for it if you want to unlock it.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more transparent example of a game developer removing features from a base game release to sell it to the customer at a premium.

Nothing was removed. Imperials were a bonus for people who bought the CE version of the game.

So looked at a different way, if you wanted the Imperial race, but didn't want a cheap horse, Imperial style unlocked in outfits, a marriage mechanic, and some treasure maps, you can buy Imperial race separately without getting the delux version of the game.

Now if you want to gripe, Any Race, Any Alliance, was originally a preorder bonus only. Then it was sold separately. Then they bundled it. I think that's a bigger deal.

My Imperial horse Mr. Buttercup isn't cheap...

@Anonx31st
Um, I meant if you had the CE, the white Imperial Horse was sold in the stable for 1 gold, while the next... inexpensive horse was 10-15k gold.

Emmagoldman

Aertew wrote: »

Seriously, the imperial race is one of the things that really hurts this game's reputation and image. Imagine trying to get a friend into ESO and then they ask if they can play as a imperial.
"Well for $20 yeah! Or you can just sub $15 to unlock all the DLC" Seriously races should never be locked in a TES game. Imagine if Skyrim had a imperial race DLC? I don't get it.

Not only that but they made Imperial city free. So it's not like they can't just make it free. People who bought the pack can still play any race any faction. It's the imperial race-behind-locked-behind-$20 that is just dumb and predatory. I get the devs want people to pay for subs and try to make it appealing, but we already have to do deal with painfully slow research times and the mounts being trained only once a day. I get paying for expansions and DLC. But a race? Really?

Please, just make it part of the game like it should've been long ago.

I'm sorry but this is a scenario that has never happened to me and I highly doubt it would. I feel more than anything, the people that might not try out ESO are pvpers as there has been almost no added content and performance and balance swings are ridiculous.

Starlock

Aertew wrote: »

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

I get that the company needs to make money to support and its MMO. But my main point is that 1. Paying for a race is just kinda dumb. 2. Even if you were to buy it you don't get as much value as something like a expansion.
Also, the devs aleady have alot of stuff made like Expansions, dungeons, mounts, cosmetics, crown crates, and the smaller zones and DLC.

The main point of this post is thst ESO is already heavily monetized and there isn't really a big reason to make people pay for imperial.

Keep in mind that the main reason folks are blind to these issues is that the video game industry has been actively pushing boundaries for a solid decade now. More importantly, the industry has successfully moved the goal posts to the point that bad deals are barely flagged as bad deals by customers anymore. Things that were once standard features of games are now routinely stripped out and monetized (aka, sell less for more), at least in the games-as-a-service landscape.

To be fair, stripping the Imperial race out of the base game is a mild example of that compared to the crap that goes on these days in the industry. There were at least some legitimate gameplay reasons for that (sort of) with the Alliance War setup at the time. The price point they set for the upgrade, however, was and still is foul. Five bucks would be pushing it, never mind twenty. Twenty! Criminy!

Nastassiya

Aertew wrote: »

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

Skyrim != ESO

They are TWO different kinds of games with a story in the same world.

Most copies of Skyrim are patched by Stream and console stores
ESO is patched by Bethesda
EOS has a higher server cost

Skyrim only came out with a few expansions and hasn't been in real development for awhile
ESO is consistently putting out new chapters every year
ESO has a higher development cost

Skyrim doesn't really have a tech support team
ESO has a ticket system and people that help triage tickets and support agents
ESO has a higher tech support cost

Skyrim isn't really looking to bring in more users. They made it easy to port so their cost is low
ESO is still developing new mechanics and areas to the game to bring more people in
ESO has a larger development cost

Skyrim doesn't run their own multiplayer server (some mod people developed that)
ESO has multiple multiplayer environments for pc and consoles.
ESO has as higher running cost

Skyrim != ESO


Yes, I can go on. The Imperial race should not be a freebie handout. Support the game and buy it.

Kartalin

Ippokrates wrote: »

Yeah, Imperials are getting better with each patch (have one DK, great guy) but the real value of WHOLE 2100 crown packet are outstanding outfits. Seriosly, IMHO they far better developed than all race outfits from pre-TU ESO.

Oh, and newcomers need only to buy one class: Necro, because Warden is in standard game with Morrowind.

Elsweyr is base game now too. But you still have to pay extra for Warden and Necro, just like we’ve always had to pay extra for Imperial from launch. Just that most got it from the imperial collector’s edition rather than having to add it on later, same as how the new classes were part of their respective chapters and now exist as extra paid content in the crown store.

REiiGN15

I paid, you better pay too. Lots of others did too. [snip]

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

spartaxoxo

I think it's been long enough. I already have it but meh. They can't possibly be making much off it at this point and it's the only game in the series that does this.

kargen27

Aertew wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I am very confused, is his argument that since they made IC free they should make imperials free too? I can't see the logical jump here.

Imperial race is paywalled.
Imperial race was a base game race for other Elder Scroll games like Skyrim.
Imperial race should be base game.

People shouldn't be against it as the devs already have many sources of income in the game.

Imperial city DLC was made free as well, so it wouldn't be the first

TL;DR make imperial race part of the base game.

ESO is not Skyrim. What was base game in Skyrim is entirely irrelevant for ESO.

You know what else was base game with Skyrim, the Solitude and Markarth portions of the world map. You know what requires payment to play? The Solitude and Markarth portions of the game map.

Again, almost as if it takes more work to make a entire new map than a single race.

Stop strawmaning.

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

I get that the company needs to make money to support and its MMO. But my main point is that 1. Paying for a race is just kinda dumb. 2. Even if you were to buy it you don't get as much value as something like a expansion.
Also, the devs aleady have alot of stuff made like Expansions, dungeons, mounts, cosmetics, crown crates, and the smaller zones and DLC.

The main point of this post is thst ESO is already heavily monetized and there isn't really a big reason to make people pay for imperial.

ESO isn't heavily monetized. For less than $30 you can purchase a game that will give you 100s of hours of game play. Any additional costs are optional and not game breaking. There actually is a big reason to make players still pay for the Imperial race. It was part of a special addition. ESO I am sure will have future special additions. They don't want to start a policy of players not purchasing special additions knowing later down the line they will get the additions for free.

And if not being able to play an Imperial was a deal breaker those players probably were not sticking around long anyway.

bmnoble

Aertew wrote: »

Nastassiya wrote: »

You do understand that the money they make off this doesn't only fund ESO, right? What is being made from ESO is helping fund other projects, like TESVI. Also, if they suddenly make the Imperial race free then they would have a lot of people upset that paid money just to get that race.

They made imperial city free and I don't think anyone complained.

Also it's $20???? you act like if we take away this $20 the company is gonna go bankrupt? I mentioned a bunch of other sources of Income they have in ESO.

Actually I remember quite a few complaining in threads at the time about having the DLC dungeons forced on them when they specifically don't subscribe to keep DLC dungeons from being in their random dungeon queue.


As for the Imperial race, it was a bonus at launch if you picked one of the more expensive editions of the game.

If they suddenly made if free now after people already paid for it they would complain, I don't see it being a separate paid item as any different than when they take out parts of the collectors editions when they go up for crowns, like when you buy the Morrowind collectors upgrade now, you don't get the class, you don't get one of the mounts that was there at launch etc... They do the same with the other collectors upgrades.

Your not just getting a race either, you get a mount, a pet, a motif style and a few bits and pieces, that would cost you more than the pack is priced at if they sold them separately.

I know plenty of people who only bought the imperial race pack early on for the mount due to not wanting to raise the gold at the time before you got a free mount at level 10 you had to buy one from the stables.

Athan1

In previous TES games you couldn't play a couple of races (I think Orc and Argonian?) It's fine when some content is available for a small price (the imperial edition is super cheap anyway). People don't realise how cheap video games are and rant about minor costs associated with them. Going to the movies literally costs about $20-30, and it only lasts a couple of hours. ESO can keep you occupied indefinitely, surely you can spare a few $ if you want extra features. Just my 2c.

Tandor

Starlock wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

I get that the company needs to make money to support and its MMO. But my main point is that 1. Paying for a race is just kinda dumb. 2. Even if you were to buy it you don't get as much value as something like a expansion.
Also, the devs aleady have alot of stuff made like Expansions, dungeons, mounts, cosmetics, crown crates, and the smaller zones and DLC.

The main point of this post is thst ESO is already heavily monetized and there isn't really a big reason to make people pay for imperial.

Keep in mind that the main reason folks are blind to these issues is that the video game industry has been actively pushing boundaries for a solid decade now. More importantly, the industry has successfully moved the goal posts to the point that bad deals are barely flagged as bad deals by customers anymore. Things that were once standard features of games are now routinely stripped out and monetized (aka, sell less for more), at least in the games-as-a-service landscape.

To be fair, stripping the Imperial race out of the base game is a mild example of that compared to the crap that goes on these days in the industry. There were at least some legitimate gameplay reasons for that (sort of) with the Alliance War setup at the time. The price point they set for the upgrade, however, was and still is foul. Five bucks would be pushing it, never mind twenty. Twenty! Criminy!

Actually it was gamers who moved the goalposts by deciding they didn't want to pay subscriptions any more and swallowed the "Free to Play" mantra with a resulting sense of entitlement. Nothing in life is free, and while the original MMOs were funded by subscriptions nowadays they have to be monetised in various ways in order to be viable. ZOS have done a pretty good job in my view in monetising the game for a number of years now without overstepping the line so far as P2W is concerned, and with the subscription still available with a decent package for those able and willing to pay it. Even so, there are still some players of course who think the particular thing they're keen on should just be given to them.

anadandy

FluffWit wrote: »

Imperial Race was the first thing I bought from the crown store and its been my main ever since. Never bothered me having to pay for it.

On the other hand pay walling all the Imperial furniture is a constant pain in the ass I could do without.

100% this.

And for what it's worth, I wouldn't care if they made Imperial race free, even though I paid for it long ago. It's such a small thing.

JKorr

Aertew wrote: »

Seriously, the imperial race is one of the things that really hurts this game's reputation and image. Imagine trying to get a friend into ESO and then they ask if they can play as a imperial.
"Well for $20 yeah! Or you can just sub $15 to unlock all the DLC" Seriously races should never be locked in a TES game. Imagine if Skyrim had a imperial race DLC? I don't get it.

Not only that but they made Imperial city free. So it's not like they can't just make it free. People who bought the pack can still play any race any faction. It's the imperial race-behind-locked-behind-$20 that is just dumb and predatory. I get the devs want people to pay for subs and try to make it appealing, but we already have to do deal with painfully slow research times and the mounts being trained only once a day. I get paying for expansions and DLC. But a race? Really?

Please, just make it part of the game like it should've been long ago.

Long ago it was a perk for people who bought the imperial edition. Long ago any faction/any race option was a perk if you preordered.

How are special editions and pre-order perks "predatory"?

Goregrinder

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Imperial race is paywalled.
Imperial race was a base game race for other Elder Scroll games like Skyrim.
Imperial race should be base game.

Starlock wrote: »

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

Ooooor, the answer is that ESO was built around the three-faction war, with each faction including 3 races from the non-Imperial sections of Tamriel. Cyrodil - the home of the Imperials - was the center of this PvP activity.

Allowing players to play Imperials, in one of the three non-Imperial factions vying to take over the Imperial capital, would make little sense.


(also, mainline TES games =/= MMO. Just like any other spinoff games wouldn't be mainline TES games, either.)

Yep, many newer players don't know that ESO was originally poised to be a heavily RvRvR focused MMORPG, where Cyrodiil was one of the main attractions (aka PVP), so many of the design decisions upon launch (Imperial Race) were influenced by that direction.

JKorr

Anonx31st wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

Imperial is a collector edition item. Support ZOS and just pay for it if you want to unlock it.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

You are the one using Skyrim as the standard for Base Game. This game is not Skyrim. Base game for ESO does not, and has never, included Imperial race.

The Imperial race was available from Day 1, wasn't it? That begs the question - why was this simply not included in the base game to begin with? The answer is, of course, profit.

I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more transparent example of a game developer removing features from a base game release to sell it to the customer at a premium.

Nothing was removed. Imperials were a bonus for people who bought the CE version of the game.

So looked at a different way, if you wanted the Imperial race, but didn't want a cheap horse, Imperial style unlocked in outfits, a marriage mechanic, and some treasure maps, you can buy Imperial race separately without getting the delux version of the game.

Now if you want to gripe, Any Race, Any Alliance, was originally a preorder bonus only. Then it was sold separately. Then they bundled it. I think that's a bigger deal.

My Imperial horse Mr. Buttercup isn't cheap...

Oh those were fun threads. "Buy the imperial edition and get the imperial white horse for one gold at the stable" OMG IMPERIAL EDITION IS PAY TO WIN" and "IMPERIAL HORSE IS CHEATING" blah blah blah.If you wanted one of the specialized horses, it cost you 47500 gold. Even after people pointed out the white horse had flat average stats, and no matter which food you used it would never match one of the specialized horses, the ranters ranted.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Reverb wrote: »

Yes, the Imperial race is locked behind a paywall. So is the ability to play any race in any alliance. So are 2 classes, a crafting line, 4 guild skill lines (2 of which are pretty much essential for end game), 12 zone maps, a handful of trials, and dozens of dungeons.

It’s a b2p MMO. Paywalls are literally how they keep the game running.

"Keep the game running."

I'd agree with you if it were true. The game runs like crap but the money keeps flowing into their pockets. Where is it all going to?

Thechuckage

A few expansions are now rolled into the base game, which came after Imp race. No reason to NOT make them part of it.

"But the early adopters, they'll want refunds" to bad. You buy something early, get the pleasure of using it before anyone who didn't buy it. Where are all the threads about how Orsinium buyers need a refund? Nowhere.

No real reason to keep severely old content gated. Esp when newer content is no longer gated. It might just be a simple oversight on their part and it should have been lowered or integrated into the game.

But I seriously doubt that $20 bucks is doing more than keeping the lights on (JUST the lights) for *maybe* a whole day.


PS - If you really think ESO is ZoS only revenue stream, then I have beachfront property in the Mojave desert to sell you.

Athan1

Thechuckage wrote: »

A few expansions are now rolled into the base game, which came after Imp race.

Oh we can play as imps?

Canned_Apples

I don’t think imperials have ever been “meta” for any build.
They’re better than others for tanking, but that’s about it.
You can argue that it’s good for beginners or stamina vampires (pvp stage 3) but that’s about it.

Lab3360

Araneae6537 wrote: »

You don’t get the Imperial race as part of ESO+ and purchasing it does not give you Any Race, Any Alliance. I know, as I’ve had ESO+ since I started by only recently purchased the Imperial expansion to play one in Blackwood.

And you can dislike that something costs extra, how much it costs, and so forth, but that does not make it “predatory” so that’s a bit absurd.
Overpriced =/= Predatory

Nope

Elsonso

Aertew wrote: »

I was using it as a way to show that skyrim made basic stuff like races part of the game.

Races, yes.

In Skyrim, if you wanted to use a crossbow, you had to buy a DLC.

Icy_Waffles

Good! As it was shall it ever be.

newtinmpls

Imperial Race is still locked behind paywall

And....so what?

There are lots of things we "have to pay for".

Because we didn't make them, and we want them, and we have not previously purchased them.

Live in an economy.