Who else hates the "Take points you don't want to Unlock the ones you Do" thing?

Integral1900

If you’re bothered about the cost to waste range just type/stuck in chat, hut return and the game will plonk you at the nearest way shrine

It just seems a little suspicious that whenever you want to get to a useful node you invariably have to go through at least one utterly useless one. Like the one for inspiration, why on earth isn’t that off on a little spur on its own? My main crafter filled those skill lines four years ago!

Lugaldu

Integral1900 wrote: »

Like the one for inspiration, why on earth isn’t that off on a little spur on its own? My main crafter filled those skill lines four years ago!

It may only help those players who just start with CP and build their char´s profile for the first time (when e.g. inspiration still plays a role in the development for a crafter). For anyone else who has been a master crafter for a long time, it's of course a complete waste of points.

Mythreindeer

Pathing in the green tree could definitely be improved upon.

That said, I like the new CP system and see it's potential. It's different and therefore will be unwelcome at first by many but it has greater potential for a better game.

Serenez

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah let's buy crafting inspiration CP on our maxed out crafters so we can buy something else up the ladder.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

I am a 9 trait crafter and I do agree it is a bit of a waste putting points into a star that you do not want or need.

I do like the concept of the new Champion Points system, however believe that some tweaking needs to be made. The craft tree in particular has some lower champion point players behind where they were before as now they do not have enough points to do what they were able to do before this patch. Then to compound this, they have to give up the limited CP points they do have into crafting inspiration that they really don't want, and now do not have enough points to allot them where they need to bring their crafter back to where they were before the patch.

AlnilamE

On characters that don't need inspiration, I simply took a different path to get where I wanted.

silvereyes

I hate it as well. I have several accounts. My main is around cp 1100, and I can get most of what I want from the constellations. I have a few accounts around cp 810, and those are close, but not quite there.

My cp 450 accounts feel completely gimped, and being forced to invest dozens of points into stuff I don’t care about feels like I’m on a treadmill, not progressing. Every time I spend a new point, it’s unsatisfying.

DreamsUnderStars

I don't like it either, but so far it's the only thing I dislike about the new system.

Kiralyn2000

JJuponen wrote: »

The silly prequisites are just a form of CP "gold sink". Makes as much sense as master crafter not being able to repair armor while every traveling salesperson with a guar in tow can repair everything on the spot.

Ah well, this is not RPG.

Hmm, I've been playing with pre-requisite-based skill trees in "RPGs" (ARPGs, CRPGs, JRPGs, MMORPGs, etc) for years & years.

Salvas_Aren

You complain about a dumb feature of a dumb system.

AlnilamE

I like it in theory, but I think you should be able to "unlock" a star with just 1 CP if you just want to skip over it.

Araneae6537

CristyRazvan wrote: »

The same amount of CP returns way less usefulness. I have lost too the double nodes chance and the 50% harvesting speed reduction, now i have just 30% and it is strange to see the character hitting the node once, than raising the axe/pick again to have the node gathered mid-swing.

Oh yeah, I tried that and hated it, worse than no harvesting speed increase to me! I only use it fully unlocked or not at all, one swing or two.

Aelthwyn

Danikat wrote: »

It's not something I like but...this can't seriously be new to any of you can it? Isn't this how every game with a skill tree works?

Even the skills in ESO are kind of like that in that you have to spend skill points on the ones which unlock earlier, and put them on your bar for a while in order to get enough XP in the skill line to unlock later skills, and you have to train up ones which are useless until morphed before you're allowed to morph them..

It's not new, but it's no less annoying every time, in any game.

At least with the skill unlocks you can do a respec and get back those first points you put into skills you didn't want to use.

Katahdin

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah let's buy crafting inspiration CP on our maxed out crafters so we can buy something else up the ladder.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

I thought the same thing but you can get around it without putting points in inspiration

I do agree though. I am not a fan of having to put points in something to get to something else.

Scardan

I played Diablo 2 for to long to be pissed that I have to take something useless to unlock something useful. Or PoE. To me it is pretty normal.

Crafting inspiration CP can be useful, if new player just sold all the junk or just powerleveled and want to level up crafting skills after that. Actually, why bother with dekon on low levels now if you can get boost with CP star? Collecting junk for decon does not take long.

Aelthwyn

silvereyes wrote: »

I hate it as well. I have several accounts. My main is around cp 1100, and I can get most of what I want from the constellations. I have a few accounts around cp 810, and those are close, but not quite there.

My cp 450 accounts feel completely gimped, and being forced to invest dozens of points into stuff I don’t care about feels like I’m on a treadmill, not progressing. Every time I spend a new point, it’s unsatisfying.

Exactly. For those who were not over CP cap it's a considerable step backwards. I really appreciated the previous system where you could choose to get a little in several things or as much as you could in one in order to feel like your CP was doing SOMETHING no matter where you were at. You had some 'goals' to shoot for in the upper stars if you didn't have enough yet to invest 75 or whatever, but you could still get something out of each of the lower stars that interested you, and Only those that interested you - nothing felt like a waste. With this system there's a lot more just sitting on points till you can do anything with them.

I was just starting to feel more competent with my CP 600 group, annnnd now I feel like I'm back to the 'just barely got one to level 50' stage again. And the CP 350 guys on the other server are just hopeless.... I understand there are plenty of players who 'need' a CP sink, and that they have speeded up the process of gaining CP, but it still really sucks for those who aren't there already and don't have the same ammount of time to commit to the game. Feeling like the CP is hardly worth allocating till you have waaaaaaay more is pretty disheartening. Perhaps for some it will spur them to play more to work hard to get enough CP, but for those who can't really invest much more time than they already do it's going to be a pretty long term setback.

silvereyes

Aelthwyn wrote: »

For those who were not over CP cap it's a considerable step backwards. I really appreciated the previous system where you could choose to get a little in several things or as much as you could in one in order to feel like your CP was doing SOMETHING no matter where you were at.

Yes! With diminishing returns in CP 1.0, the early stars only took 2-3 CP to get to the next jump point, and nothing blocked anything else. Sub CP 800 progression felt rewarding.

Now it’s 8-15 CP per jump point at least, and with blockers! I know that the XP per CP is a little reduced, but mostly at higher CP levels, so it doesn’t even begin to make up for the other changes.

whitecrow

coop500 wrote: »

Oh god, yeah I HATE this too, putting points into decreasing wayshrine cost? Who the heck cares about that?

Agreed! The only time I've ever paid a wayshrine fee was one time when I wasn't paying attention and thought I had activated the one I was at, but was just looking at the map.

Elsonso

Mythreindeer wrote: »

Pathing in the green tree could definitely be improved upon.

That said, I like the new CP system and see it's potential. It's different and therefore will be unwelcome at first by many but it has greater potential for a better game.

I am fine with the Blue and Red constellations, but the Green one just goes too far. I really don't want to spend _anything_ in the green tree. There are things that I want in there, but buying expensive "all in" slottable passives that I won't slot is just annoying. This is just throwing away points, which is probably the point. They needed a third tree, and this was the best they could think of, but it is OP so they have to make it punitive to prevent that.

The binary, all points required to unlock, should be the leafs of the tree. Everything we have to pass through should unlock for 10, rarely 15, points. That would be a start. After that, changing 9 or 10 of those slottable ones in Craft to be non-slottable is next.

Sylvermynx

AlnilamE wrote: »

On characters that don't need inspiration, I simply took a different path to get where I wanted.

That's what I did - went up the right side getting the wayshrine one, then on up to Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest.

I don't need the riding ones - I seldom have a character mounted as I'm always farming.... I hate mount/dismount/pick/remount.

Elsonso

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

On characters that don't need inspiration, I simply took a different path to get where I wanted.

That's what I did - went up the right side getting the wayshrine one, then on up to Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest.

I don't need the riding ones - I seldom have a character mounted as I'm always farming.... I hate mount/dismount/pick/remount.

Dismount, change slotted passive, pick, change slotted passive, mount. Could be tedious.

(Yes, I am being a little sarcastic, here. Just a smidge.)

Sylvermynx

Elsonso wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

On characters that don't need inspiration, I simply took a different path to get where I wanted.

That's what I did - went up the right side getting the wayshrine one, then on up to Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest.

I don't need the riding ones - I seldom have a character mounted as I'm always farming.... I hate mount/dismount/pick/remount.

Dismount, change slotted passive, pick, change slotted passive, mount. Could be tedious.

(Yes, I am being a little sarcastic, here. Just a smidge.)

Right now, the characters I'm on the most (my 50s) are all set up for farming and treasure chests as that's what I do most. I'll have to eventually add the Disassembly one when I have enough CP for it - and I will have a slot for it at that point. I don't do anything with the Justice System, so no worries there. One of the PC NA 50s has Homemaker instead of the farming ones since I don't farm on her.

There's a lot of stuff I don't do in the game - no group content, no pvp.... So this system is actually more likely to be ideal for me than for a lot of people.

Elsonso

Sylvermynx wrote: »

There's a lot of stuff I don't do in the game - no group content, no pvp.... So this system is actually more likely to be ideal for me than for a lot of people.

I don't do a lot of stuff, and I do tend to specialize characters. However, even my full combat characters could stop and pick the flowers quickly as they went about their business because I was able to invest in that constellation to get that perk _all the time_. I did not have to decide what to sacrifice, and I did not have to stop everything, swap abilities, pick the flower, and then swap the passive back. That is something new. Thanks, ZOS. Smoooch. Luv ya!

BlueRaven

I wrote about this “gateway” skill issue in a post critical of the Craft Tree.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7158860

It’s one of many problems, I feel most evident in the green tree of course.

renne

DiscountJaneAusten wrote: »

Oh yes, I hate it so much. It feels like I am being punished for only having 630CP-ish.

A while back I tried starting a couple of new toons on PS4-EU (I main on NA) and not having enough CP for the fast harvesting was so painful, I can't even imagine what it'll be like going back to it to do more levelling.

On one hand CP faster on the other ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

LannStone

Gythral wrote: »

Count me in!

Insparation - anyone, a skill that is only needed for 6 months (or so) - (5 years ago) (ok it has been less with the 3 slots for Necromancers)

But then again the whole green tree should be passives anyway!

You can use the inspiration perk to get more XP from your master writs to get CP faster - I went from CP 1000 to 1005 in a few minutes that way
EDIT: I gotta correct that. I've since confirmed that inspiration has no effect on XP, just leveling a craft before L50. You can still get good XP to raise that CP from master writs - especially with XP bonus scrolls or potions before you turn them in - but that inspiration passive won't help that. Sorry

doomette

LannStone wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

Count me in!

Insparation - anyone, a skill that is only needed for 6 months (or so) - (5 years ago) (ok it has been less with the 3 slots for Necromancers)

But then again the whole green tree should be passives anyway!

You can use the inspiration perk to get more XP from your master writs to get CP faster - I went from CP 1000 to 1005 in a few minutes that way

But inspiration is separate from experience, they’re two different measures. At least that’s what I’ve been lead to believe.

zaria

Sangwyne wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Oh god, yeah I HATE this too, putting points into decreasing wayshrine cost? Who the heck cares about that?

People who don't have houses and get stuck in awkward places, like getting FEARED by a mob through a wall with no way out.

Shudders I still have nightmares about running through Wayrest Sewers and somehow getting feared through the staircase, having to relog, portal out, portal back in, finish fighting that boss and then go through the door only for the next boss to bug out and do his Monty Python French impression by standing up there on the platform and refusing to come down.

Back on subject, there's a lot of actually pretty bad, specific and niche stars that are locked behind others too, I could understand locking really amazing stars behind others, but Spirit Mastery? Or reduced roll dodge cost but only while shielded? Really?

CoH is famous for this, I once got feared trough the wall and got to fight a bunch of mobs inside the wall, it was an bizarre fight. Solution here is to port so some at group, this will port you to the wayshrine at the start of dungeon.
They changed the fear thing so you now just get frozen.

Danikat

whitecrow wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Oh god, yeah I HATE this too, putting points into decreasing wayshrine cost? Who the heck cares about that?

Agreed! The only time I've ever paid a wayshrine fee was one time when I wasn't paying attention and thought I had activated the one I was at, but was just looking at the map.

I'm impressed you only did it once! I do it at least once each time I go out to gathering crafting surveys.

hakan

NoSoup wrote: »

I'm sure with update X will come the crown store feature that lets you unlock any star you want.....

when did you see such thing in eso tho?

Taggund

The gating and placement in the Craft tree is frustrating. Getting Master Gatherer as an example.

The fishing skills are also something I was looking forward to, as I spend a night a week working on the Master fishing achievement, but I will likely complete that achievement before having the points to use the new skills, so they will be pretty useless to me.