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Flaps on armor actually look vulgar/suggestive
SickleCider
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ZOS, I'm making a plea to stop putting the loin flaps on your armor pieces, especially those really long and thin ones. On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around. It's not just me, I've had others comment on it. Please stop doing this.
✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
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SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
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I think there is a certain amount of humor in the fact that it's RIGHT THERE and no one on the design team has ever been like, "Hey, maybe. . .don't." It makes me want to laugh and cry to think about.
But yes it's genuinely gross (just for aesthetic reasons even, too) and it needs to stop.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨1 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Naw. Please ZOS, we need MORE suggestive clothing for male characters, I can hardly see my tank under all that armor.
I picked a Nord, not a puny elf, I knew what I was signing up for, I was advertised a beefcake muscled warrior, GIMME THE FLOP.Versispellis wrote: »On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around.
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Matchimus✭✭✭✭✭I just glanced at op post because of the fear of this being one of those moments where I have been merrily going about my business oblivious to something, then someone interprets it in a certain way, and my innocence is forever lost?2
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Its not sexist, its confuses Khajiit so its racist. Have no idea that this discussion is about.
some see the front flap as an specific organ? only way this one can interpret it?
Well I hope its troll an attempt to get rid of them and yes they are often annoying but.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
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You're finding a meaning that isn't there. Yes they're annoying and unappealing, but sexism has nothing to do with this.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
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I actually agree that "sexist" isn't the appropriate word here. I try to remember not everyone on this forum is a native speaker so I didn't make it a sticking point. It's just unfortunate design.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
Raltin✭✭✭✭@Versispellis wrote: »ZOS, I'm making a plea to stop putting the loin flaps on your armor pieces, especially those really long and thin ones. On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around. It's not just me, I've had others comment on it. Please stop doing this.
I don't really mind it, I like some of the flappers, and not for 'lewd' reasons... loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
Dangly cloth =/= fleshy naughty bits
Now if eso had the same problem RuneScape did where their newly added loin cloths on their updated armor designs were quite literally protruding forwards like a certain part of male anatomy I shall not be naming, from base of the cloth to tip of the cloth, THEN I think you'd have a right to complain.
Now look at ESO's, lookit this... lewkit THAT... without the loin flap on this outfit, you'd have a completely bare and exposed crotch region, sticking out like a sore thumb... the loin flap on this armor design HIDES that region, AND provides armor and protection for it, while still giving said crotch region a full range of movement without the awkward and cumbersome addition of crotch armor plating like what you'd might have on a full suit of breton knight armor. There's functional reasons for these flaps, mang!
Edited by Raltin on March 5, 2021 8:06PM"Proud purveyor of Cyrodiil Pickles."6 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem with these flaps is that they're everywhere so you can't avoid them, and they clip with everything. I don't want flaps?Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr4 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Versispellis wrote: »ZOS, I'm making a plea to stop putting the loin flaps on your armor pieces, especially those really long and thin ones. On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around. It's not just me, I've had others comment on it. Please stop doing this.
I don't really mind it, I like some of the flappers, and not for 'lewd' reasons... loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
Dangly cloth =/= fleshy naughty bits
Now if eso had the same problem RuneScape did where their newly added loin cloths on their updated armor designs were quite literally protruding forwards like a certain part of male anatomy I shall not be naming, from base of the cloth to tip of the cloth, THEN I think you'd have a right to complain.
Now look at ESO's, lookit this... lewkit THAT... without the loin flap on this outfit, you'd have a completely bare and exposed crotch region, sticking out like a sore thumb... the loin flap on this armor design HIDES that region, AND provides armor and protection for it, while still giving said crotch region a full range of movement without the awkward and cumbersome addition of crotch armor plating like what you'd might have on a full suit of breton knight armor. There's functional reasons for these flaps, mang!
Oh, yeah, that one isn't horrible. I'm talking about the functionally useless ones like the one you find on Moongrave light. It's three inches wide at most and reaches down to your toon's knees iirc. Functionally you'd just be getting it caught on everything and it wouldn't provide any protection. (Remember the pants with all the buckles and chains that were popular in the early 2000s? There's a real life example of what I mean.) It only serves to look, well, a little unfortunate when paired with pants.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Now that was an very good example of one functional design. Think its named tassels on plate armor.@Versispellis wrote: »ZOS, I'm making a plea to stop putting the loin flaps on your armor pieces, especially those really long and thin ones. On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around. It's not just me, I've had others comment on it. Please stop doing this.
I don't really mind it, I like some of the flappers, and not for 'lewd' reasons... loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
Dangly cloth =/= fleshy naughty bits
Now if eso had the same problem RuneScape did where their newly added loin cloths on their updated armor designs were quite literally protruding forwards like a certain part of male anatomy I shall not be naming, from base of the cloth to tip of the cloth, THEN I think you'd have a right to complain.
Now look at ESO's, lookit this... lewkit THAT... without the loin flap on this outfit, you'd have a completely bare and exposed crotch region, sticking out like a sore thumb... the loin flap on this armor design HIDES that region, AND provides armor and protection for it, while still giving said crotch region a full range of movement without the awkward and cumbersome addition of crotch armor plating like what you'd might have on a full suit of breton knight armor. There's functional reasons for these flaps, mang!
Croach is one part you can not arm, usual it was chain mail. You can not plate your ass either if you plan on riding an horse
Now my main issue with them is that they clip with robes and here they are pretty pointless anyway.
Khajiit and Argonians avoid the back flaps as they clip with the tails.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Raltin✭✭✭✭The problem with these flaps is that they're everywhere so you can't avoid them, and they clip with everything. I don't want flaps?
Not every armor chest piece has or forces the flaps on. I like the current variety where some have them and some don't. Some armor pieces look like they should have them, and some that have them don't look like they should have them. And when it comes to designing your own outfit, if you can find ones that go good with the leggings you chose and adds a decorative flare to it in the process, WITHOUT clippage? I think it can look great.
Look at this one. My own 'Divine Prosecutor' armor design... I mixed the heavy chest with the medium legs. The loin flap from the heavy chest extends down onto the legs and provides the usually bare and bland kilt of the medium legs with some armor plating and extra aesthetic to make it not look so bland, and, in the process, you can barely tell the two don't go together because of the dye work I did to line up the colors, you have to focus to see the clipping.
Then here's my Jephrine knight armor design... the loin flap from the jephrine top goes so damn well with the dyed color scheme of the dark brotherhood leggings that you can barely even tell that the loin flap is there at all, or that they are from two completely different armor designs.
"Proud purveyor of Cyrodiil Pickles."1 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭I thought this was an interesting read. It touches on some of the concerns expressed in this thread. It is some of the 'medieval misconceptions' of armor that we modern people have.
Source: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm
This is the part of the article that is relevant to concerns about the crotch/groin area.
"The history of the armored codpiece is closely related to its counterpart in civilian male costume. From the mid-fourteenth century onward, male garments for the upper body had occasionally become so short as to almost reveal the crotch. In these times prior to the development of trousers, men wore leggings tied to their undergarment or a belt, and the crotch was hidden with a flap secured to the upper inside edge of each legging. At the beginning of the sixteenth century, this flap began to be padded and thus visually emphasized. As such, the codpiece remained commonplace in European male costume until the end of the sixteenth century. On armor, the codpiece as a separate piece of plate defense for the *** appeared during the second decade of the sixteenth century and remained in use and fashion until about 1570. Thickly padded on the inside, it is attached to the armor at the center of the lower edge of the skirt. While its early form was rather cuplike, it remained under direct influence of civilian costume, and later examples are somewhat more pointed upward. It was, however, not typically worn with armor for use on horseback; first, because it would get in the way, and second, because the armored front bow of the war saddle usually offered enough protection for the groin area. Thus the codpiece is usually found on armor used for fighting on foot, both in war and tournament, and, although of some protective value, it has always been as much an element of fashion as one of defense."6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
And what about female characters? What are we supposedly hiding?
I don't necessarily agree that these dangling pieces are lewd, but they are hideous. These and the hovering mud flaps on our sides greatly reduce the choices we have for nice looking outfits. Shoulders, too.
Enough.Edited by SilverBride on March 5, 2021 8:24PMPCNA4 -
TPishek✭✭✭✭✭I think they should add optional *** tassels for the male versions of the skirt outfits.0
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SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The problem with these flaps is that they're everywhere so you can't avoid them, and they clip with everything. I don't want flaps?
Not every armor chest piece has or forces the flaps on. I like the current variety where some have them and some don't. Some armor pieces look like they should have them, and some that have them don't look like they should have them. And when it comes to designing your own outfit, if you can find ones that go good with the leggings you chose and adds a decorative flare to it in the process, WITHOUT clippage? I think it can look great.
Look at this one. My own 'Divine Prosecutor' armor design... I mixed the heavy chest with the medium legs. The loin flap from the heavy chest extends down onto the legs and provides the usually bare and bland kilt of the medium legs with some armor plating and extra aesthetic to make it not look so bland, and, in the process, you can barely tell the two don't go together because of the dye work I did to line up the colors, you have to focus to see the clipping.
Then here's my Jephrine knight armor design... the loin flap from the jephrine top goes so damn well with the dyed color scheme of the dark brotherhood leggings that you can barely even tell that the loin flap is there at all, or that they are from two completely different armor designs.
Those are some nice outfits! 👌 Very well put together and a good argument in favor of the loin flaps.
I think the crux of my frustration is that I'm really trying to move away from kilts in my outfits. The frustration is one part conceptual, as though there's this message that an uncovered groin is inherently lewd, while the presence of some of the flaps achieves an arguably opposite effect to modesty, and the frustration is also aesthetic for obvious reasons. There are some chest pieces I would really like to use without a kilt and it looks functionally, aesthetically, and conceptually wrong.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
Raltin✭✭✭✭@SilverBride wrote: »loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
And what about female characters? What are we supposedly hiding?
I don't necessarily agree that these dangling pieces are lewd, but they are hideous. These and the hovering mud flaps on our sides greatly reduce the choices we have for nice looking outfits. Shoulders, too.
Enough.
Just because the male bits are more sensitive to pain on the exterior, does that mean women should be segregated from the loin flaps that they might find fashionable or protective? Hotdog or taco, NO ONE wants to be hit down there with a sharp piece of metal...
"Proud purveyor of Cyrodiil Pickles."0 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »I thought this was an interesting read. It touches on some of the concerns expressed in this thread. It is some of the 'medieval misconceptions' of armor that we modern people have.
Source: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm
This is the part of the article that is relevant to concerns about the crotch/groin area.
"The history of the armored codpiece is closely related to its counterpart in civilian male costume. From the mid-fourteenth century onward, male garments for the upper body had occasionally become so short as to almost reveal the crotch. In these times prior to the development of trousers, men wore leggings tied to their undergarment or a belt, and the crotch was hidden with a flap secured to the upper inside edge of each legging. At the beginning of the sixteenth century, this flap began to be padded and thus visually emphasized. As such, the codpiece remained commonplace in European male costume until the end of the sixteenth century. On armor, the codpiece as a separate piece of plate defense for the *** appeared during the second decade of the sixteenth century and remained in use and fashion until about 1570. Thickly padded on the inside, it is attached to the armor at the center of the lower edge of the skirt. While its early form was rather cuplike, it remained under direct influence of civilian costume, and later examples are somewhat more pointed upward. It was, however, not typically worn with armor for use on horseback; first, because it would get in the way, and second, because the armored front bow of the war saddle usually offered enough protection for the groin area. Thus the codpiece is usually found on armor used for fighting on foot, both in war and tournament, and, although of some protective value, it has always been as much an element of fashion as one of defense."
Oh, thanks for the link! I'll have to check that out. I find these kinds of reads fascinating.
That quote there definitely provides a lot to chew on, in the are-the-flaps-functional-and-are-they-aesthetically-appropriate quandary. I'm of the mind that they're superfluous in this game. On the whole I find a lot of the sets rather poorly designed, as far as form and function go. (My favorite is Knight of the Circle, I think that's a nicely designed style.)✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
Raltin✭✭✭✭
Now that was an very good example of one functional design. Think its named tassels on plate armor.@Versispellis wrote: »ZOS, I'm making a plea to stop putting the loin flaps on your armor pieces, especially those really long and thin ones. On a male toon especially, when you try to pair a beflapped chest piece with a pants piece, it looks. . .really suggestive. Even worse when the toon is running and it starts flopping around. It's not just me, I've had others comment on it. Please stop doing this.
I don't really mind it, I like some of the flappers, and not for 'lewd' reasons... loin cloths have been a part of armor and dress since man first put pelt and cloth on their crotches, and traditionally it ain't for showin' off dat bulge, but hiding it.
Dangly cloth =/= fleshy naughty bits
Now if eso had the same problem RuneScape did where their newly added loin cloths on their updated armor designs were quite literally protruding forwards like a certain part of male anatomy I shall not be naming, from base of the cloth to tip of the cloth, THEN I think you'd have a right to complain.
Now look at ESO's, lookit this... lewkit THAT... without the loin flap on this outfit, you'd have a completely bare and exposed crotch region, sticking out like a sore thumb... the loin flap on this armor design HIDES that region, AND provides armor and protection for it, while still giving said crotch region a full range of movement without the awkward and cumbersome addition of crotch armor plating like what you'd might have on a full suit of breton knight armor. There's functional reasons for these flaps, mang!
Croach is one part you can not arm, usual it was chain mail. You can not plate your ass either if you plan on riding an horse
Now my main issue with them is that they clip with robes and here they are pretty pointless anyway.
Khajiit and Argonians avoid the back flaps as they clip with the tails.
I know right? These designs work for some characters, and for others they don't. I don't think loin flaps in eso are a problem, just another OPTION that might limit some from wanting to go with an armor, or others who are sold on it because they like them, and it's on a per-character and per-player basis. Likewise, armor pieces from one motif can be combined with pieces from another, and form a very beautiful combo... it all hinges on a player's creativity to work with what they got.
As far as I go, I LOVE kilts/skirtings on armor designs for both aesthetic and protective reasons... I HATE armor motifs and designs where it's just completely bare legging or plate armor legging with nothing accentuating it... I use armors that have loin flaps if it's a split-kilt and there's no armor protection for the crotch where the kilt splits, OR if the kilt is so bland in design on the crotch region that it warrants having the loin cloth dangling down over it to add a more complex/detailed design."Proud purveyor of Cyrodiil Pickles."0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just because the male bits are more sensitive to pain on the exterior, does that mean women should be segregated from the loin flaps that they might find fashionable or protective? Hotdog or taco, NO ONE wants to be hit down there with a sharp piece of metal...
Explain why light armor has loin flaps, tassets or shoulders. Do you really think a thin piece is cloth is going to stop a sharp piece of metal?
There are chest pieces that leave a good portion of the torso completely bare, leaving absolutely no protection for the vital organs, but by gosh we are going to cover your shoulders!
There is no logic to this.PCNA0 -
Lugaldu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If the loin flaps are suggestive, then what are other pieces of armor like the breastplates for female characters that emphasize the bust?0 -
Psiion✭✭✭✭Greetings all,
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