Please, no more dungeons where you are straight up PUNISHED for having a healer in the group.

Faded

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

The OP was talking about design of content...this shows exactly what is wrong with content and gear design if ZoS devs are going to continue with the idea that there are necessary roles for support classes in 4 person content.

Now there's an "if".

It doesn't have to be one way or the other, and maybe that's what they're trying for. That's a lot of mixed signals, given that they also don't care to explain their road map and have to have a conversation with any of us.

renne

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Most players aren't even remotely that skilled. Healers are still needed and the Pale Order ring is NOT all that. Miss me with that "Healers, watch it and weep." rubbish. Acting like one guy who can do a thing is exemplary of the entire DD player base is just straight up wrong.

I said the player was exceptional. I also said the dungeon design and the build options plus the self sustaining buffs/heals in recent skill changes show how support classes aren't necessary for some of the hardest content in game. This is evidence of that. DOH!

I did not say it was exemplary of the player base. I did not even imply it. As for my remark 'healers watch this and weep'....well it may have been hyperbole but when you have a single item that fully heals you, the more damage you do, plus a build that pulls extreme damage to combine with it, both introduced into the game with no downside to using them together it is pretty clear that the intention was to eliminate the need for second party heals. It was probably intended for hard core, refuse to group soloers and solo arenas...but the effect is to eliminate the need for healing/sustain/support roles in dungeon groups. That is poor design.

The OP was talking about design of content...this shows exactly what is wrong with content and gear design if ZoS devs are going to continue with the idea that there are necessary roles for support classes in 4 person content. Lot of posters here are saying: 'support just do more damage and be flexible.' ie be a self sustaining damage dealer. Here is an example of the extreme outcome of that point of view. Sorry if that went over your head in your rush to misinterpret my remarks.

It wasn't "a rush to misinterpret [your] remarks" otherwise absolutely no one else would've agree with me and literally the next post after this one of yours is someone agreeing that cherry picking a single very skilled player as your lone example isn't the smoking gun proof you think it is.

It's not "evidence of that" when it's literally one very skilled player. Show me Johnny Average using all of these things to solo pass HMs then you might have a point. Because people have always used the existing resources in the game to do outrageous things even before the ring - and soloing a HM is hardly new. And yet we still have healers for everyone else!

If you want to think it eliminates the need for support roles in dungeons no one can stop you, but people are entitled to believe that's wrong without you accusing them of "rushing to misinterpret [your] remarks". It's okay for people not to agree with you.

PigofSteel

Well you dont need tanks or healers u just stomp everything with quad self sustain dds.

AyaDark

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Before talking about 'involving healers more etc' (and believe me I prefer that meta), new dd's need to get their gear together. People are tagging for veteran random dungeons (sometimes dlc) with little to no experience in them and probably with all the wrong gear on. This is my experience coming back to PvE through random dungeon finder and I'm a 1600 CP well experienced PvE player.

There needs to be a higher CP cap for random vet dungeons for sure, firstly. You are throwing lambs to slaughter, Zos!

We pass vDLC on 160 CP easely. Now it us 320+ ???

The same way it will be 3600CP+ soon becouse some one can not pass it on 810CP, while others 160+ easely do.

AyaDark

By the way - I can say that i AM a healer. But i am DD.

I do 8-9 k HPS on vDLC and do damage the same time.

Some healers can not even do 1500 hps in vTrial group. But all you need to do to get 4 k hps there is put undaunted blood altar there and nothing more.

And I and a lot of people say about bad META.

Healer META , DDs META.

But reality is simple - META healer is not really needed.

But not META healer as example me is.

May be just META not needed to real groups ? And thing that you try to give them base on some META promoter view ?

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Before talking about 'involving healers more etc' (and believe me I prefer that meta), new dd's need to get their gear together. People are tagging for veteran random dungeons (sometimes dlc) with little to no experience in them and probably with all the wrong gear on. This is my experience coming back to PvE through random dungeon finder and I'm a 1600 CP well experienced PvE player.

There needs to be a higher CP cap for random vet dungeons for sure, firstly. You are throwing lambs to slaughter, Zos!

Highly situational. It's more about player experience and skill than it is CP #. I've been in groups that have cleared content the group finder technically wouldn't let them enter (<300 CP, walking in the front door.) I've also been in groups with 1k+ players that weren't worth the mats their gear was made of.

If you're going to try to artificially limit players that are capable of clearing, but restricted by some arbitrary cap, you're going to make it worse, not better.

I know what you mean. But CP also does represent the time spent in the game. I also agree that a percentage of these people can be from console or PC/NA or just prone to understand mechanics and gear, but there is also a large chunk of fresh of the boat newcomers tagging for vet content in their underpants whilst wielding kitchen utensils.

jle30303

One of the biggest problems in the game is "one-shot, roll dodge or die" mechanics. Good design would allow a tank to survive with BLOCK - but take enough damage that it would need a healer to heal them. Roll-dodging is for non-tanks in light armour. Heavy armoured tanks should be able to survive with block. If they can't, it's bad design.

Kidgangster101

Kurat wrote: »

I your frustration OP but can you imagine the mess if tanks and dps couldn't survive without a real healer. If dungeons had so crazy incoming dmg that we would need healer spamming heals on us or we would wipe? 90% of the pugs wouldn't able to complete any dungeon because an average pug healer is just spamming rapid regen and heavy attacking. No orbs, no combat prayer, no useful support sets.
You ask for dungeons where healer is needed? That = not pugable

But that is the developers fault. If you que as a healer the game should run you through a simulation so you can learn what you need. Like a training video. Other games can run healers perfectly fine but this game can't? Cmon man.

Healers should be taught this skill does this this skill does that. The other problem is you get dps that que as a tank/healer to get fast que times and they don't get punished for griefing.

If you lower self healing it forces people to learn how to heal/tank. Increase mob damage as well and make tanks that que as a tank gain an effect where all your moves (even air) taunts enemies. That makes people need tanks and forces them to actually use gear for themselves.

Think about sets being used for both healer and tank. They run sets that MAKE THE DPS HIT HARDER. Not about their roles but to help DPS! That is the problem.