Is it true that with the new CP the proc sets got nerfed?

UntouchableHunter

Is it true that with the new CP the proc sets got nerfed?

I saw some players saying but I'm not sure about it.

PvXGamer

I might be wrong, but as stated from the reveal event, there is no gear changes other than those stated in the PTS patch notes. Procs from CP got nerfed. Now, instead of each character having any proc effect they put CP into, each character will be limited to 12 active procs total from CP. Those 12 being those CP nodes that you have actually slotted at the time. You could have spent enough CP to 'buy' 30 proc effects but each character will only have up to 12 active effects at a time depending on players build choices.

EDIT: so all players will have access to UP TO 12 proc effects from CP plus their chosen equipment procs.

MashmalloMan

Yes, indirectly.

Live you can get +11-13% martial or magical damage. +18-22% dot damage and/or +18-22% direct damage. Not to mention you can get +4k penetration pretty easily.

Thats +29%-35% damage for a proc and penetration that all buffs procs without needing to invest into your character sheet.

On PTS, some of the total power from CP has lowered and shifted to our base character sheet. For proc sets, you can really only get the following now: +10% single target damage, +10% aoe damage, +10% dot damage. All 3 of these are slottables taking up 3/4 spaces and are strictly damage related, the side effect is that you don't get to choose bonuses that could help your healing done or more versatile bonuses like +1300 stamina or +10% crit damage/healing which help buff your skills AND heals. There is also penetration, but it's only 1300 or so from what I recall, this does not need to be slotted.

So the multipliers have a cost to them in that they require slotting and only reach a max of 20% instead of the average before with 29-35%.

Now it's not only that, our base characters received a bunch of buffs to flat stats. You get an extra 4k stam and magicka, 1k weapon/spell damage and many of the CP stars give similar bonuses not requiring to be slotted. Eg. +150 weapon damage, +100 weapon damage for Martial attacks, + 1300 stamina, +1300 stamina for slotting, etc.

So while they were only impacted by a small amount of about 10-15%, our base skills should be getting stronger in comparison. I see it as a slight shift in power where we may do close to the same total damage assuming you're using skills too, but the reliance on procs doing all the work should shift down.

Next. Fix Malacath.

relentless_turnip

In directly they became less strong. Stats were boosted significantly at base and procs were left behind. Meaning stats are at least equal to procs. In all likelihood you'll probably need reasonable stats and proc sets to succeed. Which would be a vast improvement on building a tank in proc sets.

katorga

Ah, but aren't procs even more popular and effective in nocp? They become proportionally more effective as your targets lose their defensive CP and character sheet stats.

But, even in nocp you will now get flat stats, 1K wep/sp damage and a flat 15% damage reduction. That may tip the scales back to active skills being more powerful.

Aha! But....a classic nocp heavy armor/proc build will keep their health and procs and add a big boost to their active damage and healing skills from the new free stats.

Won't be long before we know how this will play out.

ExistingRug61

In terms of CP, yes procs indirectly have been reduced, as described by @MashmalloMan

However, while procs may have weakened, a build that uses both procs and skills hasn't been reduced in effectiveness as they also get the benefit of the flat stats to their skills (just like a pure stat build does). It just shifts some of the power from procs to skills. So a full procset warden that might busrt you down with its procs plus a dizzy/sub/db combo will still do so, its just no the procs do slightly less damage and the dizzy/sub/db does slightly more.

But a player that was 100% relying on procs for damage and rarely using offensive skills, yes their overall outgoing damage will be lower.

NOCP things are somewhat the same, except neither procs nor skills lost from the CP changes, but rather everyone (including proc builds) gains stats, as described by @katorga

The only case I can think of that a stat based build will gain relatively speaking compared to other builds is if that stat build is a heavily focused into crit, as this will be a multiplicative factor with the stat boosts. But these are rare and to a degree Malacath makes that kind of moot.

MashmalloMan

@ExistingRug61

I think at least some people will become more interested in buffing regular skills again in no cp and definitely a bit more in cp environments. In my opinion, there was a chain of events that brought the game to the current meta people dislike (heavy + proc + malacath).

• No standard for dot damage-> (many abilities were useless, so creating standards made a lot more skills useful again)
• Standard of 2.5x that of a spammable over 10s -> (Overkill, this was the dying from 3-4 stacking dots at 28m range meta in pvp and managing 10 dots in pve)
• Standard of 1.5x that of a spammable over 10s -> (Underkill, burst became the only option and now in pve, our skill bars are 20-40% passive buff skills and 60% your spammable/execute).
• Scaling for healing reduced as per battle spirit nerf from -50% to -60%
• Removing proc chances for a number of proc sets.
• Buffing proc set standard damage to like 20k damage over 10s, no investment required.
• Introducing Malacath Band of Brutality, buffing proc set damage while simutaniously allowing the user to avoid any and all crit resist modifiers.
• Heavy + Proc Meta

Now, some things are shifting the other direction:

• Battle Spirit healing reduction is now 55% instead of 60%.
• Major/Minor Berserk reduced in power.
• Sustain is a lot easier to deal with via the +60% from minor/major buffs.
• This patch, all the bonuses to base stats listed above and reductions to % based damage multipliers.

To me, it seems like it's at least more proffitable than it has been in the past to have a stat based build that is more well rounded, offering more reward for that playstyle should help shift things a little, but who knows - ultimately, I think fixing the power of Malacath would be the final thing to fix here.

ExistingRug61

@MashmalloMan
Oh I'm not saying its a bad thing, I agree, and I would be one of those people you mention that would be interested in this current direction.

My point was more that don't simply expect someone who is using skills + procs to do less damage (comparably) than before, as what has been reduced from procs has gone to skills. Its just the pure proc damage only builds that primarily lose out.
And as you say, this does open up stat builds a bit more, and at the very least even in the case of a skill + proc build it shifts some of the potentially damage to skills which then need to actually be used land as opposed to relying on auto triggering procs.
The other thing is everyone (including glass cannons) getting a bit more health (or alternatively converting it to stats, regen or damage via build choices) is that procs may no longer be quite enough damage to actually kill people, but that's just me speculating.

Volckodav

And to add with all the really interesting facts above, now that we will have more stats we it may be viable to slot purge so kind of a counter for procs

Firstmep

relentless_turnip wrote: »

In directly they became less strong. Stats were boosted significantly at base and procs were left behind. Meaning stats are at least equal to procs. In all likelihood you'll probably need reasonable stats and proc sets to succeed. Which would be a vast improvement on building a tank in proc sets.

Honestly i dont agree, point me in the direction of a stat boost that allows my lets say stamplar , to pull the same dmg burst that a well time vate2h/crimson combo can. POTL definetly isnt it.
If anything, i think we might see a shift towards "hybrid" stat/proc builds, but i dont think procs are going anywhere as long as theyre that strong.

Olupajmibanan

Proc sets are a thing mostly in non-CP environment, but even there they will be less powerful. Base HP got increased by 2256 (from 8744 to 16000 but Battle Spirit 5000 is being removed next incremental patch) and all characters now have 15% base damage reduction regardless of CP (previously, this was CP-only thing).

So proc set damage in non-CP is reduced by 15% and hp of all players is increased by 2,2k.

BohnT2

If you hope for procs to stop be the most viable choice, then the answer is no.

Full proc is still the way to go in both no cp and cp and on most specs especially with HP regen being so high. You can run the CP granting you HP regen for each 10 ult points and have procs like zaan be your ultimate.

Firstmep

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Proc sets are a thing mostly in non-CP environment, but even there they will be less powerful. Base HP got increased by 2256 (from 8744 to 16000 but Battle Spirit 5000 is being removed next incremental patch) and all characters now have 15% base damage reduction regardless of CP (previously, this was CP-only thing).

So proc set damage in non-CP is reduced by 15% and hp of all players is increased by 2,2k.

That's 15%reduction on everything not just procs.
In no cp procs will still be prevalent as long as they allow you to be super tanky and still dish out good dmg.

Lughlongarm

While generally true and I'm completely agree with @MashmalloMan analysis,

It should be noted that both crit chance and crit damage synergy with CP got nerfed as well.

1vs1 builds based on sets like - Oblivion's Foe+ Zaan + Wrath of Elements Set + whatever, still rule PTS dueling, at least from my experience.

relentless_turnip

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

In directly they became less strong. Stats were boosted significantly at base and procs were left behind. Meaning stats are at least equal to procs. In all likelihood you'll probably need reasonable stats and proc sets to succeed. Which would be a vast improvement on building a tank in proc sets.

Honestly i dont agree, point me in the direction of a stat boost that allows my lets say stamplar , to pull the same dmg burst that a well time vate2h/crimson combo can. POTL definetly isnt it.
If anything, i think we might see a shift towards "hybrid" stat/proc builds, but i dont think procs are going anywhere as long as theyre that strong.

This is a PTS discussion. I have actually tested stamplar on PTS and it's incredibly strong.

I did 7 medium clever BB and briar FB. I had 7.6k WD and amazing healing due to this. Vate 2h is still good and so is crimson, but the user will need to stack damage as well to be able kill my build or another stat build. Otherwise the damage is nowhere near as good. Any of the proc users doing great damage were wearing light tbh.

Procs haven't gone, but the build around it most likely has. As in you won't be killing anyone with all your attributes in health. You will need enough stats in your skills.

Stats are at the very least going to be equivalent to a proc build next patch, but as you said they will need both stats and procs to equate to the same output.

WrathOfInnos

Is this why there’s no direct damage CP on PTS? I miss Master at Arms. Hopefully it will return at some point, and proc sets aren’t preventing its existence.

Firstmep

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

In directly they became less strong. Stats were boosted significantly at base and procs were left behind. Meaning stats are at least equal to procs. In all likelihood you'll probably need reasonable stats and proc sets to succeed. Which would be a vast improvement on building a tank in proc sets.

Honestly i dont agree, point me in the direction of a stat boost that allows my lets say stamplar , to pull the same dmg burst that a well time vate2h/crimson combo can. POTL definetly isnt it.
If anything, i think we might see a shift towards "hybrid" stat/proc builds, but i dont think procs are going anywhere as long as theyre that strong.

This is a PTS discussion. I have actually tested stamplar on PTS and it's incredibly strong.

I did 7 medium clever BB and briar FB. I had 7.6k WD and amazing healing due to this. Vate 2h is still good and so is crimson, but the user will need to stack damage as well to be able kill my build or another stat build. Otherwise the damage is nowhere near as good. Any of the proc users doing great damage were wearing light tbh.

Procs haven't gone, but the build around it most likely has. As in you won't be killing anyone with all your attributes in health. You will need enough stats in your skills.

Stats are at the very least going to be equivalent to a proc build next patch, but as you said they will need both stats and procs to equate to the same output.

Sorry I didn't mean as in stats, stamplar has no built in burst skill, POTL is bugged and does very little dmg most of the time, jabs is highly avoidable.
At best you can catch someone in a db+jabs combo, but aganist something like a tanky stamden even with 7k wpd it won't be enough.
I'd caution anyone to base their meta predictions on dueling, ppl tend to be far more tanky for open world and bgs.
Like I said before, I can see hybrid Stat/proc builds becoming the meta, but on certain classes I simply can't see pure Stat builds being viable.
Another example would be ranged magplar, where landing dark flare might be easier now, but you will likely still run calurion, as your burst simply wouldn't be enough aganist tankier targets otherwise.

relentless_turnip

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

In directly they became less strong. Stats were boosted significantly at base and procs were left behind. Meaning stats are at least equal to procs. In all likelihood you'll probably need reasonable stats and proc sets to succeed. Which would be a vast improvement on building a tank in proc sets.

Honestly i dont agree, point me in the direction of a stat boost that allows my lets say stamplar , to pull the same dmg burst that a well time vate2h/crimson combo can. POTL definetly isnt it.
If anything, i think we might see a shift towards "hybrid" stat/proc builds, but i dont think procs are going anywhere as long as theyre that strong.

This is a PTS discussion. I have actually tested stamplar on PTS and it's incredibly strong.

I did 7 medium clever BB and briar FB. I had 7.6k WD and amazing healing due to this. Vate 2h is still good and so is crimson, but the user will need to stack damage as well to be able kill my build or another stat build. Otherwise the damage is nowhere near as good. Any of the proc users doing great damage were wearing light tbh.

Procs haven't gone, but the build around it most likely has. As in you won't be killing anyone with all your attributes in health. You will need enough stats in your skills.

Stats are at the very least going to be equivalent to a proc build next patch, but as you said they will need both stats and procs to equate to the same output.

Sorry I didn't mean as in stats, stamplar has no built in burst skill, POTL is bugged and does very little dmg most of the time, jabs is highly avoidable.
At best you can catch someone in a db+jabs combo, but aganist something like a tanky stamden even with 7k wpd it won't be enough.
I'd caution anyone to base their meta predictions on dueling, ppl tend to be far more tanky for open world and bgs.
Like I said before, I can see hybrid Stat/proc builds becoming the meta, but on certain classes I simply can't see pure Stat builds being viable.
Another example would be ranged magplar, where landing dark flare might be easier now, but you will likely still run calurion, as your burst simply wouldn't be enough aganist tankier targets otherwise.

I generally don't think the game is at all balanced around duels, nor should it be.

I agree with what you're saying. I am saying regardless of how you build, you will need decent offensive stats to kill anyone from what I have tested. Though I do think pure stat builds will be very viable 👍 and tanky proc builds not so much. Heavy armor in general is very strong on the PTS ATM.