Allow crafters to upgrade gear into its Perfected Version.

cjdean128ub17_ESO

I propose we have the drop metric stay the same, Perfected drops in Vet, normal in normal, but give a high-cost option to crafters to upgrade the gear into its perfected version.

Something like;
1.) The gear must be purple or higher quality,
2.) Costs a high amount of upgrade mats to perfect,
3.) Can only perfect x items per week, or add a timer like 3 days to upgrade 1 item.

The idea here is that if you can complete the difficult vet content required to get perfected drops, you're set, but if you have difficulty making it into the more difficult content for any of the many reasons, you're not completely locked out of the best quality gear.

What do you guys think?

Best regards,
Sandwich

Daemons_Bane

No.. it would remove way too many players from the content

Minyassa

I like it. I know too many people who adore vet content and its challenges to think that doing so would in any way threaten the numbers involved in veteran content. And being able to slog toward making some perfected pieces, which are always called for in the endgame content builds, might actually encourage people to try vet content once they can actually get geared up for it.

preevious

Could indeed be usefull.

While I can do (and do) vSS, the scarcity of perfected drops and the fact that everyone want pFG and thus keep their pieces makes the farm of that trial a trial (pun very intended). Especially when you need a staff ..

I can understand the opposite opinion, too, though ..why bother running the end-game content, then, if you can get the gear?

Maybe make it so you need the related conqueror achievement to do it? (though I know you still have to do it once, then .. and if you can't, you're barred of that stuff unless you buy a run)

nukk3r

No. The idea is you have to do some work for the better rewards. People do the hard content in non-perfected gear and perfected gear is the reward for doing it. More of a bragging rights stuff than a prerequisite for doing any hard content. If you can't obtain it in the gear you have, it won't help you in the slightest.

cjdean128ub17_ESO

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

No.. it would remove way too many players from the content

I completely disagree. I think in a few weeks time it would drastically increase the number of people attempting to clear harder vet content because they can enter the content on a more level playing field. And by putting a timer and high cost on crafters perfecting gear, you maintain the necessity to run the content to receive full sets of perfected gear.

The loop would look like;
1.) Get to 50, quest / dailies to cp 160.
2.) Start trying trials and arenas, get a few green pieces of gear.
3.) Upgrade trial sets, get 1-2 perfect pieces.
4.) Head into harder content, struggle but succeed.
5.) Slowly build up to consistent vet runs.
6.) Vet content sees a boom in player count.

Minyassa wrote: »

I like it. I know too many people who adore vet content and its challenges to think that doing so would in any way threaten the numbers involved in veteran content. And being able to slog toward making some perfected pieces, which are always called for in the endgame content builds, might actually encourage people to try vet content once they can actually get geared up for it.

Agreed completely. I think it'd just give way more people an opportunity and desire to actually get into vet content. I think you hit the nail right on the head.

If anything, I think it'd be a huge relief because those more skilled dedicated players could finally edge out that last piece of their set after trying for 40 runs and still not getting the one thing they're shooting for.

preevious wrote: »

Could indeed be usefull.

While I can do (and do) vSS, the scarcity of perfected drops and the fact that everyone want pFG and thus keep their pieces makes the farm of that trial a trial (pun very intended). Especially when you need a staff ..

I can understand the opposite opinion, too, though ..why bother running the end-game content, then, if you can get the gear?

Maybe make it so you need the related conqueror achievement to do it? (though I know you still have to do it once, then .. and if you can't, you're barred of that stuff unless you buy a run)

I think the key piece here is keeping the act of perfecting gear on a long timer, so that even if you run normals and get a full 5 piece, the time and resources it would take to fully perfect it would be several weeks to months. You get your 1-2-3 piece fairly quickly, get confidence to get into vet content, then start pursuing direct drops instead of drops to improve.

I'd be opposed to adding the conqueror achievement req just because I'd like to see the number of people going into vet content increase. I honestly believe a high material cost + high crafter level + weekly / daily / 3-day timer would be the right call.

Keeps it just accessible enough that people will shoot for it, but just out of reach that once they get a firm standing in vet content, they're more keen to just run harder content for gear than farm normals.

nukk3r wrote: »

No. The idea is you have to do some work for the better rewards. People do the hard content in non-perfected gear and perfected gear is the reward for doing it. More of a bragging rights stuff than a prerequisite for doing any hard content. If you can't obtain it in the gear you have, it won't help you in the slightest.

I really don't like that outlook. From a business standpoint, a player standpoint, or just a personal standpoint.

From a strictly business perspective; People are unwilling to pay for content they cannot access. Normal people who have full time jobs cannot dedicate the effort and time table to maintain a vet trial schedule, period. Opening up the ability to farm lower tier content of the same type to gain gear to where they can access vet trials is going to boost numbers.

From a player standpoint, I love my fellow gamers and I have spoken to tons of people who would love to do vet content but have extreme difficulty getting into groups that don't require them to already have perfected gear. At the end of the day, giving them a piece or two to get their foot in the door is not something I'm opposed to.

From a personal standpoint, it's a video game that a lot of people play to relieve stress and to feel good. There's people who want to get into trials and harder vet content and they just aren't at the level that dedicated groups require. Giving them a shot at the top-tier gear gives them an opportunity to experience the game fully.

Not to mention, the number of players willing to even step foot into a vet trial is scarce, unless you've got a core group already. And those types of groups are incredibly exclusive.

Eedat

cjdean128ub17_ESO wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

No.. it would remove way too many players from the content

I completely disagree. I think in a few weeks time it would drastically increase the number of people attempting to clear harder vet content because they can enter the content on a more level playing field. And by putting a timer and high cost on crafters perfecting gear, you maintain the necessity to run the content to receive full sets of perfected gear.

The loop would look like;
1.) Get to 50, quest / dailies to cp 160.
2.) Start trying trials and arenas, get a few green pieces of gear.
3.) Upgrade trial sets, get 1-2 perfect pieces.
4.) Head into harder content, struggle but succeed.
5.) Slowly build up to consistent vet runs.
6.) Vet content sees a boom in player count.

Minyassa wrote: »

I like it. I know too many people who adore vet content and its challenges to think that doing so would in any way threaten the numbers involved in veteran content. And being able to slog toward making some perfected pieces, which are always called for in the endgame content builds, might actually encourage people to try vet content once they can actually get geared up for it.

Agreed completely. I think it'd just give way more people an opportunity and desire to actually get into vet content. I think you hit the nail right on the head.

preevious wrote: »

Could indeed be usefull.

While I can do (and do) vSS, the scarcity of perfected drops and the fact that everyone want pFG and thus keep their pieces makes the farm of that trial a trial (pun very intended). Especially when you need a staff ..

I can understand the opposite opinion, too, though ..why bother running the end-game content, then, if you can get the gear?

Maybe make it so you need the related conqueror achievement to do it? (though I know you still have to do it once, then .. and if you can't, you're barred of that stuff unless you buy a run)

I think the key piece here is keeping the act of perfecting gear on a long timer, so that even if you run normals and get a full 5 piece, the time and resources it would take to fully perfect it would be several weeks to months. You get your 1-2-3 piece fairly quickly, get confidence to get into vet content, then start pursuing direct drops instead of drops to improve.

I'd be opposed to adding the conqueror achievement req just because I'd like to see the number of people going into vet content increase. I honestly believe a high material cost + high crafter level + weekly / daily / 3-day timer would be the right call.

Keeps it just accessible enough that people will shoot for it, but just out of reach that once they get a firm standing in vet content, they're more keen to just run harder content for gear than farm normals.

nukk3r wrote: »

No. The idea is you have to do some work for the better rewards. People do the hard content in non-perfected gear and perfected gear is the reward for doing it. More of a bragging rights stuff than a prerequisite for doing any hard content. If you can't obtain it in the gear you have, it won't help you in the slightest.

I really don't like that outlook. From a business standpoint, a player standpoint, or just a personal standpoint.

From a strictly business perspective; People are unwilling to pay for content they cannot access. Normal people who have full time jobs cannot dedicate the effort and time table to maintain a vet trial schedule, period. Opening up the ability to farm lower tier content of the same type to gain gear to where they can access vet trials is going to boost numbers.

From a player standpoint, I love my fellow gamers and I have spoken to tons of people who would love to do vet content but have extreme difficulty getting into groups that don't require them to already have perfected gear. At the end of the day, giving them a piece or two to get their foot in the door is not something I'm opposed to.

From a personal standpoint, it's a video game that a lot of people play to relieve stress and to feel good. There's people who want to get into trials and harder vet content and they just aren't at the level that dedicated groups require. Giving them a shot at the top-tier gear gives them an opportunity to experience the game fully.

Not to mention, the number of players willing to even step foot into a vet trial is scarce, unless you've got a core group already. And those types of groups are incredibly exclusive.

I think you are over estimating the benefits of perfected gear. Perfected gear barely makes a difference at all. I still haven't refarmed vMA for perfected weapons because they legitimately make absolutely zero measurable difference. Perfected gear vs it's regular counterpart might make 2k difference on a 100k parse depending on the set. Meanwhile players can make 50k+ of difference just by farming the normal counterparts and practicing a good rotation.

You do not need perfected gear to do vet trials flat out. If people don't have the desire to do vet trials to begin with, removing one of the rewards isn't going to help lol. Perfected gear is a slight little bonus for players who put in the effort to consistently clear harder content. Making it obtainable by smashing through the vastly easier version of the dungeon would no doubt push people away from trying it to begin with. It's also one of the only rewards left for doing so.

UntilValhalla13

According to the game, they're technically two different sets entirely. It would be like changing burning spellweave into relequen. If crafters can't even repair gear that they've created themselves for free, I couldn't imagine something like this ever happening.

nukk3r

cjdean128ub17_ESO wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

No. The idea is you have to do some work for the better rewards. People do the hard content in non-perfected gear and perfected gear is the reward for doing it. More of a bragging rights stuff than a prerequisite for doing any hard content. If you can't obtain it in the gear you have, it won't help you in the slightest.

I really don't like that outlook. From a business standpoint, a player standpoint, or just a personal standpoint.

From a strictly business perspective; People are unwilling to pay for content they cannot access. Normal people who have full time jobs cannot dedicate the effort and time table to maintain a vet trial schedule, period. Opening up the ability to farm lower tier content of the same type to gain gear to where they can access vet trials is going to boost numbers.

From a player standpoint, I love my fellow gamers and I have spoken to tons of people who would love to do vet content but have extreme difficulty getting into groups that don't require them to already have perfected gear. At the end of the day, giving them a piece or two to get their foot in the door is not something I'm opposed to.

From a personal standpoint, it's a video game that a lot of people play to relieve stress and to feel good. There's people who want to get into trials and harder vet content and they just aren't at the level that dedicated groups require. Giving them a shot at the top-tier gear gives them an opportunity to experience the game fully.

Not to mention, the number of players willing to even step foot into a vet trial is scarce, unless you've got a core group already. And those types of groups are incredibly exclusive.

1. No one bars anyone from accessing any content. Normal dungeons and trials are there for people who can't complete vet content.
2. Do you think that people in vet trials are unemployed or something? We all have or daily lives.
3. No one requires you to have perfected gear for vet content. I personally completed vet trials in normal gear. Do your damage (whatever the requirement is) and play the mechanics, that's it. Perfected gear gives you about 1k more DPS if you already parse for 90k+.
4. Vet trials are not the place to chill. It's a challenge that takes many hours to execute properly and reap the rewards. Having 1k more magicka or 100 more damage won't help you much there.

zvavi

1. Paid gear runs exist for that reason, no reason to make it upgradable as well.
2. You don't need perfected gear to complete vet trials.
3. I have never seen groups requiring perfected gear, only groups requiring dps parses, or specific gear even if non perfected (for tank/heal)

Starlight_Whisper

Crafting needs something but this isn't jt

kargen27

They gave us collections. That knocks farming gear down quite a bit. Now you don't need to run a trial over and over and over hoping to get that 4th Inferno staff you need.

Sgrug

Yes it should be craftable. Why is perfected gear behind hard mode / vet gates. Everything else is being made available through much easier means such as CP and skill lines. It is about time the same thing is done for gear.

In for a penny in for a pound. Everything should be easy to get for any casual low playtime player, this change is long overdue.

It takes to long to level up and gear up to earn perfected gear and only discourages new players from playing the game. The game needs to make acces to this gear sooner and easier for new players.

Starlight_Whisper

Sgrug wrote: »

Yes it should be craftable. Why is perfected gear behind hard mode / vet gates. Everything else is being made available through much easier means such as CP and skill lines. It is about time the same thing is done for gear.

In for a penny in for a pound. Everything should be easy to get for any casual low playtime player, this change is long overdue.

It takes to long to level up and gear up to earn perfected gear and only discourages new players from playing the game. The game needs to make acces to this gear sooner and easier for new players.

Perfect gear isn't much better then non perfect gear though. You would only need perfect of you were doing that type of content anyways

Deep_01

If someone can't do vet content, what would they need vet content gear for?

Katahdin

No. You want the gear, do the content.
Not everything in the game should be just handed to people.

They already made the non perfected versions drop in normal to make it easier for people to get those items.
I still use my normal VMA bow because the difference is insignificant.

If you cant do vet content without the normal or perfected versions of those sets, you dont need the sets.
Its not like you are going to go from meh DPS to godlike DPS by just adding the perfected version.
Perfected trial sets add a little but not having them (ie using the normal version that is perfectly farmable on normal in most cases) wont keep you from completing veteran trials or other content.

Its more about your rotation and weaving than it is about sets.

PizzaCat82

I wouldn't mind an option to upgrade a normal to perfected, provided you have a material that only drops from vet.

That way you only need to farm normal for the correct type of weapon, and then complete vet for the chance to upgrade it.

Katahdin

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an option to upgrade a normal to perfected, provided you have a material that only drops from vet.

That way you only need to farm normal for the correct type of weapon, and then complete vet for the chance to upgrade it.

Yea that wouldnt be so bad. Still have to go through the same hoop. However I would add that you need to get at least 2 of whatever it is so 2 runs per piece instead of one but you still have the chance to get the weapon as a drop.

zvavi

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an option to upgrade a normal to perfected, provided you have a material that only drops from vet.

That way you only need to farm normal for the correct type of weapon, and then complete vet for the chance to upgrade it.

Finally something we can agree on

Vevvev

Isn't this already in the game with the addition of the sticker book? Do it once and you can reconstruct it as many times as you want?

Eedat

What do people who dont even run vet content need perfected gear for to begin with? You dont even need it to do vet content to begin with. People think that perfected gear is going to fix their 40k trial dummy parse when in reality you won't even notice a difference. It's like a 1-2k difference on a 100k parse. Getting an extra 500 dps and removing a reward is going to incentivize people to do vet trials? There is practically no rewards left for doing vet trials already. Instead of taking away rewards, they should be adding them. That's what someone would suggest if they actually wanted to incentivize new players getting in to vet content. Endgame in ESO is already tragically unrewarding as is.

Eedat

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind an option to upgrade a normal to perfected, provided you have a material that only drops from vet.

That way you only need to farm normal for the correct type of weapon, and then complete vet for the chance to upgrade it.

Thats actually not a bad idea. Maybe every 2-3 runs you get enough to convert a piece over. I wouldn't mind a pity system for arenas either as some people can go 30+ clears without getting the thing they need.

colossalvoids

I'd have a whole different approach.

If the goal to make master crafters useful finally it would be appropriate to add one line of stats per full complete set of gear you could add (or customize instead as a choice?) when you're master crafter.

If the goal to make gear transition smoother from going normal-vet progression I'd suggest adding possibility to upgrade your imperfect pieces to perfected once a week after vet completion (if it's vas - +2 completion, if vcr - respective things should drop at the difficulty you're doing it on) along with getting weekly coffers.

If the goal to just have perfected gear and not participate in vet content I'd suggest not lying (to yourself?) at least about "normal people not being able to have raiding schedule", as it's pretty laughable - everyone is working or studying, it's an mmo so you obviously sacrificing couple of hours a day or a week. Not everyone raids 3-4 times a week but 1-2 is doable with every job and having multiple kids.

You don't "need" that gear, you just want it. As an example, I have trifecta achievements in halls of fabrication and asylum sanctorium, was progressing cloudrest one but group disbanded and I still don't have perfected inferno of false gods nor I have perfected siroria one, using perfected setups on body and non perfected when I need to have it frontbar and it's not an end of the world, the difference is negligible in actual content. Just a little bonus for ones who do put some effort.

Kwoung

In other games I have seen a "chit system". You aren't farming for a particular piece of gear that never drops, you are farming for chits, or whatever you want to call them. When you have enough, you go to the vet vendor and buy the piece of gear you are looking for with the chits. In ESO, those could come with no trait, so you would still have to add it to your stickerbook and recreate it in the trait you desire. And no, all pieces do not cost the same, a chest piece is generally 5x the cost of say gloves, etc.

To make it fair, the harder trials could drop more chits, but doing enough vet Craglorn trials, you would be able to afford a set of pFGD over time. This would solve numerous issues, the greatest being that vet trial groups doing DLC content don't want the newbs that can't pull 75K DPS, thus gating that gear from pretty much most of the games population. The next being, you would ALWAYS feel like you were making progress towards a goal.. and didn't just waste another couple frustrating hours of your life and walked away with zilch.

ErMurazor

cjdean128ub17_ESO wrote: »

I propose we have the drop metric stay the same, Perfected drops in Vet, normal in normal, but give a high-cost option to crafters to upgrade the gear into its perfected version.

Something like;
1.) The gear must be purple or higher quality,
2.) Costs a high amount of upgrade mats to perfect,
3.) Can only perfect x items per week, or add a timer like 3 days to upgrade 1 item.

The idea here is that if you can complete the difficult vet content required to get perfected drops, you're set, but if you have difficulty making it into the more difficult content for any of the many reasons, you're not completely locked out of the best quality gear.

What do you guys think?

Best regards,
Sandwich

No, Absolutely No. IF you cant put in the effort then you arent entitled to get it.

ErMurazor

ZoS catered to much to casuals as is already. You can get normal versions easy peasy thieese days and the difference in power is minimal. I learned and farmed maelstrom for 3 months straight to get my bow and inferno. Now u can just go into normal and get them without much effort at all.

Kwoung

ErMurazor wrote: »

cjdean128ub17_ESO wrote: »

I propose we have the drop metric stay the same, Perfected drops in Vet, normal in normal, but give a high-cost option to crafters to upgrade the gear into its perfected version.

Something like;
1.) The gear must be purple or higher quality,
2.) Costs a high amount of upgrade mats to perfect,
3.) Can only perfect x items per week, or add a timer like 3 days to upgrade 1 item.

The idea here is that if you can complete the difficult vet content required to get perfected drops, you're set, but if you have difficulty making it into the more difficult content for any of the many reasons, you're not completely locked out of the best quality gear.

What do you guys think?

Best regards,
Sandwich

No, Absolutely No. IF you cant put in the effort then you arent entitled to get it.

Actually, it isn't always about effort. There are many (read MOST) players that do not have the twitch reflexes to pull the kind of DPS required. This is through no fault of their own, yet the game penalizes them for it.

In games like EQ or WOW, yeah you could say that, put in the effort. Not so much in ESO. If you are 60 years old, or have a disability, or whatever, this stuff is kept out of your reach. In EQ or WOW, you didn't need to have a 18 year old's reflexes, you just had to work for it, which everyone willing to do... did.

Sinolai

No thanks. The gear is a reward for completing the raid. Making it accessible without running the trial feels wrong.
Besides, this probably sounds a bit rude
but players who can not finish a veteran raid doesnt need the perfected gear.

ccfeeling

Why make easy things hard ?

blkjag

No. Go earn the gear.

Daemons_Bane

cjdean128ub17_ESO wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

No.. it would remove way too many players from the content

I completely disagree. I think in a few weeks time it would drastically increase the number of people attempting to clear harder vet content because they can enter the content on a more level playing field. And by putting a timer and high cost on crafters perfecting gear, you maintain the necessity to run the content to receive full sets of perfected gear.

Or, we lose people in vet content because people don't need to do it, since they don't need to, to get perfected gear.. those who need it for PvP for example, can now just completely quit vet difficulty since it is no longer needed