On the subject of PvE players in a PvP Event..

Mik195

I think the problem with this event is the new pet which will become a house. I normally just sit out PVP events, but because I like houses, felt like I should get the tickets. I felt bad taking a place when the queue was 60+ people long for the least populated campaign, but needed to drop off my quest for tickets.

I'd recommend that ZOS roll out new shineys during the stupid PVE events (like Jester's or New Life) since doing them has no stress (just 5 minutes of annoyance) even for PVPers.

ThorianB

Goregrinder wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Brenticus12 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The hurdles/time in pve to play pvp effectively is a lot. Plenty of pve content has huge walls for pvp players...for example, we get a random two monster sets a week, & usually sets years old.

Would I be accepted in a vet dlc/trial with my pvp build & sets? Or would I have to prep for that content to be successful?

PvE players complaining want the reward without the work.

PvP endgame like PvE endgame requires dedication, prep, experience, & yes a lot of dying.

Emphasis mine.

This final sentence is interesting. How many of the PvE events require PvE endgame? As opposed to just normal, every day, overland style activities?

doesn't witches festival require you to do trials/arenas? Not really "endgame" since you can just do them on normal, but it's something atleast.

Yep, if you want to get specific Dremora motif chapters, you have to complete arenas and trials.

Which forces PVPers into PVE content.

" I am a PVPer but i am forced to do X PVE content for Y reward is not a valid argument/rebuttal" because:
1. This is a PVE game with PVP. The game is designed around PVE, 98% of the content is PVE and 99.9% of the new content added is PVE. You can't PVP in a game designed to be almost entirely PVE and then complain about having to do PVE. That is expected. That is like expecting to have a PVE only option playing EVE in which PVP is the dominate playstyle. You play EVE expect to have to PVP either by choice or force because that is the focus of the game. When you play ESO expect to have to PVE because that is the focus of the game.
2. No one physically prevents a PVPer from doing PVE or denies them PVE rewards. A PVPer knows they can complete X content and get Y rewards from doing that content and no one is interfering with that. So a PVPer only has to decide if the reward is worth their time to do the content. On the flip side, A PVER is actively being stopped by other players from doing X and getting Y rewards. First we have to find a campaign that we can even access the content which is ridiculous in and of itself. Then we can only do certain content that our alliance owns, realistically. We can do neutral towns but those are typically even more risky. Then we have to try to not get killed by PVPers while completing the content before the town is flipped. So just to earn a bloody box is a very lengthy process. What do you have to do to earn a PVE reward? Show up. Complete content. Collect reward. That is a drastic difference.
3. PVERs are not even complaining about dying in Cyro. They are complaining about PVPers camping quest points and waiting for the PVER, who is already at a massive disadvantage, to be occupied and then killing them before they even have much of a chance to react if any.
4. We won't even touch on IC because that is even worse. Pure gank city during MM. There is a ganker in every nook and cranny.

You can't compare PVPers have to do PVE to PVERS having to go to PVP zones because it is not a logical or fair comparison. MM is not a well thought out system that is designed to lure PVERs to a PVP zone not to PVP but to PVE because that is where most of the prizes are.

Goregrinder

ThorianB wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Brenticus12 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The hurdles/time in pve to play pvp effectively is a lot. Plenty of pve content has huge walls for pvp players...for example, we get a random two monster sets a week, & usually sets years old.

Would I be accepted in a vet dlc/trial with my pvp build & sets? Or would I have to prep for that content to be successful?

PvE players complaining want the reward without the work.

PvP endgame like PvE endgame requires dedication, prep, experience, & yes a lot of dying.

Emphasis mine.

This final sentence is interesting. How many of the PvE events require PvE endgame? As opposed to just normal, every day, overland style activities?

doesn't witches festival require you to do trials/arenas? Not really "endgame" since you can just do them on normal, but it's something atleast.

Yep, if you want to get specific Dremora motif chapters, you have to complete arenas and trials.

Which forces PVPers into PVE content.

" I am a PVPer but i am forced to do X PVE content for Y reward is not a valid argument/rebuttal" because:
1. This is a PVE game with PVP. The game is designed around PVE, 98% of the content is PVE and 99.9% of the new content added is PVE. You can't PVP in a game designed to be almost entirely PVE and then complain about having to do PVE. That is expected. That is like expecting to have a PVE only option playing EVE in which PVP is the dominate playstyle. You play EVE expect to have to PVP either by choice or force because that is the focus of the game. When you play ESO expect to have to PVE because that is the focus of the game.
2. No one physically prevents a PVPer from doing PVE or denies them PVE rewards. A PVPer knows they can complete X content and get Y rewards from doing that content and no one is interfering with that. So a PVPer only has to decide if the reward is worth their time to do the content. On the flip side, A PVER is actively being stopped by other players from doing X and getting Y rewards. First we have to find a campaign that we can even access the content which is ridiculous in and of itself. Then we can only do certain content that our alliance owns, realistically. We can do neutral towns but those are typically even more risky. Then we have to try to not get killed by PVPers while completing the content before the town is flipped. So just to earn a bloody box is a very lengthy process. What do you have to do to earn a PVE reward? Show up. Complete content. Collect reward. That is a drastic difference.
3. PVERs are not even complaining about dying in Cyro. They are complaining about PVPers camping quest points and waiting for the PVER, who is already at a massive disadvantage, to be occupied and then killing them before they even have much of a chance to react if any.
4. We won't even touch on IC because that is even worse. Pure gank city during MM. There is a ganker in every nook and cranny.

You can't compare PVPers have to do PVE to PVERS having to go to PVP zones because it is not a logical or fair comparison. MM is not a well thought out system that is designed to lure PVERs to a PVP zone not to PVP but to PVE because that is where most of the prizes are.

Actually it was a PVP game when it launched. Cyrodiil was in the game the first week, while trials came like 3 weeks or so later. It was marketed as a PVP game with Cyrodiil being sold as the main endgame event, which is why many of us opened up our wallets back in 2013.

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

Whether or not you enjoy getting killed by other players, it's still PVP happening in a PVP zone. Just like killing trash mobs or downing a boss is PVE happening in a PVE zone. You're under no obligation to like it or be happy about it, just like players in a PVP zone are under no obligation to show any other enemy player mercy.

Besides, PVPers camping quest points is just us paying it forward for all the times we were kicked from a group when all we wanted was a monster helm Fair is fair!

Thechuckage

[quote="Goregrinder;c-7109612"

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.[/quote]

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies.

Goregrinder

Thechuckage wrote: »

[quote="Goregrinder;c-7109612"

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies. [/quote]

But even if I don't want to put in the effort required to obtain said rewards, ZOS should still give me the rewards!!!

grkkll

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

that depends on who you meet on the way

Thechuckage

Thechuckage wrote: »

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies. [/quote]

Goregrinder wrote: »

But even if I don't want to put in the effort required to obtain said rewards, ZOS should still give me the rewards!!!

Swing and a miss.

*edit* making the quotes make more sense.

xinvidiousx

Miszou wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of posts asking for special considerations for PvE players in Cyrodiil, such as immunity, or conflict-free zones or whatever. As much as I dislike PvP for all the popular reasons, I don't think that changing the core PvP experience is really the solution.

However, there is something to be said regarding gear inequality, specifically PvP sets vs PvE sets, Gold gear vs Purple etc. that tends to make things exponentially easier for the well-equipped and well-experienced to beat up on the noobs.

So, since we already have a No CP campaign, why not just create a new campaign where all the gear, levels, stat points etc. are flattened and the exact same for everyone? For example, players are set to level 50, no champion points, no attribute points, white gear only (with no set bonuses). But any unlocked skills are still available for use.

I haven't done any math on this, so for all I know fights could take forever as everyone hits like a wet noodle, so maybe increase the gear color allowed (but still disable set bonuses) or tweak things around a bit so the Time-To-kill is still reasonable.

If everyone is on a level-playing field (as far as gear and stats), then the deciding factor simply comes down to player skill. Sure, the good PvPers will still dominate, but at least it won't be because PvE players don't have the right gear. And yes, if you want to take your uber build into PvP, you can still do that in the current campaigns. This would just be another campaign choice, like No-CP.

I mean, at the end of the day, how many people would play Counter-Strike (or whatever), if gear made a huge difference? Everyone would hate it and would be hugely unpopular. These PvP-only games are popular because the only barrier to winning is your own skill.

That said, I will undoubtedly still suck at PVP - but at least I'll know it was a somewhat fair fight and I was beaten by skill.

or.... bare with me now.... pve'ers just collect the gear while doing their pve content..... o wait.... thats too much

renne

Thechuckage wrote: »

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

No one is owed not being killed or completing a quest in a PvP zone either.

kargen27

Thechuckage wrote: »

[quote="Goregrinder;c-7109612"

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies. [/quote]

Same logic applies. Not contributing what the group thinks is your fair share you get booted. Can't survive a bomber you die. In both scenarios your lack of skill is what caused the end result meaning you don't reach your objective. With the Imperial City and Cyrodiil dailies you can try again and don't need a group to do it. With a trial run you are going to need a group. You depend on a group. In PvP land you only need depend on yourself if that is your play style.

There are no survivability checks to enter the Imperial City or Cyrodiil. You might not get kicked out of a zone for failing to bring down a dragon but you are going to die and end up at nearest wayshrine unless another player decides to help. Dragons and Harrowstorms are taken down by a group of players with the same goal. Imperial City objectives can be the same way. Tag along with players from your faction or actually join a group. If you die you are not kicked from the zone you simply wait to be rezzed or port to nearest location just like any other zone.

ThorianB

Goregrinder wrote: »

Actually it was a PVP game when it launched. Cyrodiil was in the game the first week, while trials came like 3 weeks or so later. It was marketed as a PVP game with Cyrodiil being sold as the main endgame event, which is why many of us opened up our wallets back in 2013.

It never was a PVP game, it is a game that had a PVP zone. If you want to see what an actual PVP game looks like go play EVE Online for a bit where you can get killed by players... everywhere. This game has 38 zones, 2 are PVP zones. Literally 95% of the zones in this game are PVE only and the 5% that does have PVP has A LOT of PVE. But this is somehow a PVP game? You need to get out of cyro more, my friend. Also stop beating that dead horse about this being marketed as a PVP game. Pretty sure it never was.

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low.

You are comparing not being able to jump right into a trial to being murdered every time i try to talk to a quest giver in cyro? Really? That is your argument? So you are comparing a 12 man trial with complex mechanics to me trying to hand in a quest in Cropsford?

There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

Except we aren't talking about trying to do PVP in a PVP zone. We are actually talking about people ganking us while trying to do PVE during an event. And yes those players are denying us access to the event and preventing us from participating. No one prevents a PVPer from participating in a PVE event. I know this because i do PVE events... SOLO.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

That is not true. Also what events requires you to do trials for rewards?

Whether or not you enjoy getting killed by other players, it's still PVP happening in a PVP zone. Just like killing trash mobs or downing a boss is PVE happening in a PVE zone. You're under no obligation to like it or be happy about it, just like players in a PVP zone are under no obligation to show any other enemy player mercy.

It might be your attitude that gets you removed from groups, not your lack of abilities. You also missed the entire point of this post so you could tell PVERs to " suck it up"

Besides, PVPers camping quest points is just us paying it forward for all the times we were kicked from a group when all we wanted was a monster helm Fair is fair!

Yep definitely your attitude. "I am going to grief you because you deserve it for that thing that one toxic pver did to me that one time even though you had absolutely nothing to do with it. But i am going to gank you every time you try to turn in that quest because GRRRRR PVERS!!!!!!!!

worrallj

We have an under-50 campaign, I think that *basically* gets at what your after. Nobody is going to be running gold gear in there so it's much closer to what your after, although not quite because of course someone who's willing to splurge on temporary gear will have an advantage.

caperb

worrallj wrote: »

We have an under-50 campaign, I think that *basically* gets at what your after. Nobody is going to be running gold gear in there so it's much closer to what your after, although not quite because of course someone who's willing to splurge on temporary gear will have an advantage.

You would be surprised, there are actually quite a lot of people who live -50 PvP and have gold gear sets for every couple of levels.

kargen27

caperb wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

We have an under-50 campaign, I think that *basically* gets at what your after. Nobody is going to be running gold gear in there so it's much closer to what your after, although not quite because of course someone who's willing to splurge on temporary gear will have an advantage.

You would be surprised, there are actually quite a lot of people who live -50 PvP and have gold gear sets for every couple of levels.

And when they get to 50 they start a new character so they can do it again.

Ingenon

I think that ZOS does a decent job of making it so that all or most players can get all the events tickets during all the events.

Midyear Mayhem has the Scouting Quest in Cyrodiil and the Arena Quest in Imperial City (ranged attacks from the platform) for folks that are not that good at PvP. Which you can do every day to get the event tickets.

Undaunted lets you get event tickets from slaying a final boss in a dungeon. Solo Fungal Grotto 1, or if you need to, bring a friend. So you can do the easiest dungeons and still get the event tickets every day.

Other events offer event tickets for delve quests, or even easier stuff, like throwing mudballs.

Now, if you want to get more of the event rewards, you have to do more. But I think that is fair.

FENGRUSH

Fighting for your faction requires true grit. King Emeric would be greatly disappointed reading these complaints.

ectoplasmicninja

This primarily PvE potato was just promoted to Major in High King Emeric's glorious Daggerfall Covenant army!

Only 25.8 million more AP to go before I unlock Legate's Black!

sobs

Thechuckage

kargen27 wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

[quote="Goregrinder;c-7109612"

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies.

Same logic applies. Not contributing what the group thinks is your fair share you get booted. Can't survive a bomber you die. In both scenarios your lack of skill is what caused the end result meaning you don't reach your objective. With the Imperial City and Cyrodiil dailies you can try again and don't need a group to do it. With a trial run you are going to need a group. You depend on a group. In PvP land you only need depend on yourself if that is your play style.[/quote]

Like I said " Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted." I wasn't trying to disprove any statements from Gore, just showing it applies to both sides of the game.

kargen27 wrote: »

There are no survivability checks to enter the Imperial City or Cyrodiil. You might not get kicked out of a zone for failing to bring down a dragon but you are going to die and end up at nearest wayshrine unless another player decides to help. Dragons and Harrowstorms are taken down by a group of players with the same goal. Imperial City objectives can be the same way. Tag along with players from your faction or actually join a group. If you die you are not kicked from the zone you simply wait to be rezzed or port to nearest location just like any other zone.

I'm aware of the realities of game combat in each mode, was simply poking holes at Goregrinder's "points" And for extra fun, I think people should pvp for a pvp event. But the only difference being it is quite easier to grief and/or block another players progression in a pvp environment. At most in pve land someone can kill something when you are out of credit range.

@renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run.

renne

Thechuckage wrote: »

@ renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run.

Please untag me. I can EASILY read comments without being tagged.

Also why would I take it up with Goregrinder (I notice you didn't tag him) when I know he agrees with me? Go into a PvP zone, get PvP'd. No one owes you not being killed or turning in quests, and PvEers who go in there and then complain someone killed them why they were trying to quest need to learn that.

Thechuckage

renne wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

@ renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run.

Please untag me. I can EASILY read comments without being tagged.

Also why would I take it up with Goregrinder (I notice you didn't tag him) when I know he agrees with me? Go into a PvP zone, get PvP'd. No one owes you not being killed or turning in quests, and PvEers who go in there and then complain someone killed them why they were trying to quest need to learn that.

Because I was directly responding to him. Hence the quote.

Now would you like to show me where I've said anyone should be off limits in a pvp zone? Esp when that has nothing to do with "NOT being invited to a DSA or trial group" the crux of the whole statement.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Whenever I go into these zones with the intent of doing some PvE. I always scout out the area. First I look at the server list to find one that has the dominant faction that aligns with my characters. Then once Im in I look over the map to see where its safe to do the dailies.

For anyone out there that is a hardcore PvEer with limited knowledge about Cyrodiil and what you can find there. The big farm houses you can sometimes port to on the map are areas that can and will be fought over by PvPers. As they give them launching points to keeps and outposts that are rather far to PvHorse to. Holding places like Cropsford or Bruma allows these PvPers to keep the pressure on the other factions. So you can not trust them to be safe for you. And since PvPers are not exactly going to stop and wait to figure out if youre a friendly and helpless PvEer. Theyre just going to kill you for the AP and to be on the safe side.

My recommendation is to find the hidden spots on the map that offer dailies. These spots are not marked on the map because they provide no strategic importance. Places like Chorrol, Weynon Priory and Cheydinhal all provide dailies. Chorrol and Weynon Priory are both close to Blue Keeps closest to the Home Bases. Its just a short run from the keeps and the quests can be rather quick. Cheydinhal is rather close to the Red Keeps closest to their Home Bases and is nicely tucked out of the way of any PvPers that may be seeking to siege nearby. Unfortunately for AD players. You may have to either risk Vlastarus or Cropsford or get lucky and hold keeps near these locations. You can easily google maps of these spots.

Regardless of where you choose to go. Understand that this is the land of PvPers. Its their domain and at any point in time you may encounter them. And they do not owe you peace of mind while you PvE. They don't know you, and have every right to assume you are potentially hostile because you are in a PvP zone. Not every PvPer is strictly PvPing, they may be going to these areas for the same reason you are. And when this event is normally not going on. Its very rare to encounter enemy players that will simply leave you alone while you do the dailies.

renne

Thechuckage wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

@ renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run.

Please untag me. I can EASILY read comments without being tagged.

Also why would I take it up with Goregrinder (I notice you didn't tag him) when I know he agrees with me? Go into a PvP zone, get PvP'd. No one owes you not being killed or turning in quests, and PvEers who go in there and then complain someone killed them why they were trying to quest need to learn that.

Because I was directly responding to him. Hence the quote.

Now would you like to show me where I've said anyone should be off limits in a pvp zone? Esp when that has nothing to do with "NOT being invited to a DSA or trial group" the crux of the whole statement.

I said "PvEers who go in there" I didn't say "when YOU go in there". It's not all about you.

Anyron

If you are a pve player just write to zonechat that you need help.. Most gankers/pve player farmers have hard time to fight against proper PvP player
I really like killing those people, even more when hate whisper occures
Just one thing.. To for right town.. ( red Cropsford, banana dominion Vlastarus, smurfs (blue) Bruma)

Beaverton

I haven't read through all the posts so sorry if someone already said this but this would be a good option to replace the lowbie campaign.

Remove any gear barrier and make it about learning to PVP.

In case you haven't played lowbie for years, twinked out players (some with gold gear) are a plague there (albeit a minor plague). This has gotten worse since the reconstruction system was put in place.

Koronach

renne wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

@ renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run.

Please untag me. I can EASILY read comments without being tagged.

Also why would I take it up with Goregrinder (I notice you didn't tag him) when I know he agrees with me? Go into a PvP zone, get PvP'd. No one owes you not being killed or turning in quests, and PvEers who go in there and then complain someone killed them why they were trying to quest need to learn that.

I agree with you about going into a PVP zone and getting PVPed. I also agree some of the blame is on them for not doing their homework before going in. A lot of people are compulsive though, and just do things without any research. I also blame ZoS though, for kind of baiting these people with PVE content in a PVP zone. I mean this ESO, a lot of people prob only played the TES series or just Skyrim and never played another MMORPG in their life. Let alone know anything about PVP or what Cyro is all about. They literally just go in like lambs to the slaughter, and if people are camping quest NPC's, well that's just boring.

Goregrinder

Thechuckage wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

[quote="Goregrinder;c-7109612"

PVErs physically prevent me from doing PVE content ALL the time by kicking me out of the dungeon group, or NOT inviting me into DSA or a Trial because my DPS is too low. There are no DPS or survivability checks done, and no requirements in order for a PVEr to enter IC or Cyro....you also won't kicked out of the zone if you can't kill anything....you're allowed to immediately engage in PVP right away regardless of how good you are.

But man if you can't tank, heal, or DPS by the standards of whatever dungeon or trial group you joined.....you're going to get booted faster than a cowboy at boot barn.

If you are dragging down the dungeon/trial group, then yes you will get kicked. Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted.

There are no DPS or survivability checks to do delves or dolems/dragon/harrowstorms. You wont get kicked out of the zone if you can't kill things.

As for "NOT inviting me"...... sorry to tell you but no one is owed an invite into any group activity.

If it's not the strawman then it's false equivalencies.

Same logic applies. Not contributing what the group thinks is your fair share you get booted. Can't survive a bomber you die. In both scenarios your lack of skill is what caused the end result meaning you don't reach your objective. With the Imperial City and Cyrodiil dailies you can try again and don't need a group to do it. With a trial run you are going to need a group. You depend on a group. In PvP land you only need depend on yourself if that is your play style.

Like I said " Pretty sure if you are dragging down the raid or ballgroup you will also get booted." I wasn't trying to disprove any statements from Gore, just showing it applies to both sides of the game.

kargen27 wrote: »

There are no survivability checks to enter the Imperial City or Cyrodiil. You might not get kicked out of a zone for failing to bring down a dragon but you are going to die and end up at nearest wayshrine unless another player decides to help. Dragons and Harrowstorms are taken down by a group of players with the same goal. Imperial City objectives can be the same way. Tag along with players from your faction or actually join a group. If you die you are not kicked from the zone you simply wait to be rezzed or port to nearest location just like any other zone.

I'm aware of the realities of game combat in each mode, was simply poking holes at Goregrinder's "points" And for extra fun, I think people should pvp for a pvp event. But the only difference being it is quite easier to grief and/or block another players progression in a pvp environment. At most in pve land someone can kill something when you are out of credit range.

@renne Well, take it up with Goregrind as to complaints that pve'rs were blocking him from progression by not extending an invite to the latest trial run. [/quote]

My argument wasn't Trial groups not extending me an invite. That's a private group outside of the LFG system built into the game. My Argument is that I can use the LFG system to join a dungeon because the monster set I need for a build is locked behind PVE content, it puts me in a group and then that group kicks me, thus preventing me from obtaining the rewards that I need. That is using the game's own LFG system. A PVP entering a PVE zone trying to obtain a reward, but getting stopped by a PVEr.

I'm pointing out how that argument sounds to PVPers when PVErs complain about getting killed when they're in a PVP zone and PVP happens. But if your argument is that a player should never have to enter a game mode they do not want to participate in just to get a reward, so said reward should have multiple ways to obtain them, then I 100% agree with you. All Mythic leads, Arena weapons, Dungeon/Trial gear sets should have a way to obtain them through PVP. Maybe add them to the PVP vendors and charge an AP premium for them.

Because that is what you want right? Equality for all players, so PVPers never have to PVE, and PVErs never have to PVP? Or do you think PVErs should get everything and PVPers should get nothing because PVPers are actually beneath you?