On the subject of PvE players in a PvP Event..

FlopsyPrince

The problem that I I have with these events is that gankers abound and it is too easy to make a character that can take unlimited damage (and still deal it out!) and not get killed.

I could accept being killed by more experienced PvPers, but when they are essentially invulnerable and I am weak as paper it is very annoying.

VaranisArano

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

renne

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Xandreia_

pvp get 2 events, midyear and ic, while pve get countless events, I don't see the huge issue!

if pve'ers don't like pvp then miss out! at the end of the year there are catch up events to collect tickets you might miss. let us have our events in crazy lag lol

Hapexamendios

A fun thing for me to do as a PVE player is to take a good dps character and go deep into enemy territory and take as many resources as I can and disrupt the transit system. I get killed, but some of the hate whispers are hilarious.

Wolfpaw

Hapexamendios wrote: »

A fun thing for me to do as a PVE player is to take a good dps character and go deep into enemy territory and take as many resources as I can and disrupt the transit system. I get killed, but some of the hate whispers are hilarious.

Sounds like you got some pvp heart in there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nDoO2DnlxYs

Hapexamendios

I look at it as a small measure of payback for getting killed. I can't kill anyone myself so might as well take resources if I have a little time.

renne

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I look at it as a small measure of payback for getting killed. I can't kill anyone myself so might as well take resources if I have a little time.

AND you get AP and XP for it! Success all round!

Greasytengu

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I look at it as a small measure of payback for getting killed. I can't kill anyone myself so might as well take resources if I have a little time.

its a legit tactic and one of the few things solo player and small man groups can do to have a relatively large impact on enemy movement.

Keep up the good work!

katanagirl1

As someone who does PvE and PvP, the real issue is that some players think it’s fun to hang out in the areas for Cyrodiil town quest turn-in with 10 of their PvP buddies and slaughter the poor PvE players who don’t have a chance. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. The PvE players open the door to turn in the quest and get hit with 10 ultimates before they can do anything. I have been there and seen it happen.

You know you have to open hundreds of those Pelinal boxes to get anything good, and the town dailies are the best way to do it, PvE player or not.

They’ll defend their actions by saying it’s a PvP zone and you should expect to die. I have zero respect for PvP players who do that. There is nothing that can stop them, except other PvP players that keep the towns safe, and I saw one player in zone chat who said he was doing just that.

Outside of the event, there is very good chance that you can slip in and do all of the town dailies without encountering a single PvP player. Done that before, too.

markulrich1966

I have reached the rank of captain meanwhile, so somewhere in the mid-ranges. So I would call myself PVP player, although I play just occasionally, my main focus is PVE.

I play with 36 toons, on 2 servers.

ALL use PVE gear, and this works pretty well - in IC and in cyro.

The divines trait gives my staff attacks so much power, that I often can kill opponents in a solo. I simply have to run and jump fast enough to avoid being hit by their execute.
I also focus on tasks that work best for my somewhat vulnerable gear - like defending or attacking keeps with ballistae, instead of running into a full enemy zerg.
In IC, I avoid open confrontation, and prefer to sneak a lot. Once you did the dailies 3 times each, you already know the best routes.

So I think a campaign with new armor rules is unnecessary.

Miszou

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

VaranisArano

katanagirl1 wrote: »

As someone who does PvE and PvP, the real issue is that some players think it’s fun to hang out in the areas for Cyrodiil town quest turn-in with 10 of their PvP buddies and slaughter the poor PvE players who don’t have a chance. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. The PvE players open the door to turn in the quest and get hit with 10 ultimates before they can do anything. I have been there and seen it happen.

When ZOS does MYM on the PTS, I try to always bring this up. They took the doors off of the towers on resources to prevent that sort of cheesy ambush, so I don't see why they couldn't either do the same to the quest giver builds or simply make the inside a silenced, safe zone like they do in IC.

ZOS should be more consistent...but even though its been a problem for the last several MYM events, they haven't addressed it.

VaranisArano

Miszou wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

I think ZOS is (probably mistakenly) hoping that gear will help close the gap between new players and experienced PVPers. Proc sets don't require a lot of skill to use, which theoretically let new players get easier kills.

Its easy to blame the gear for losses and I see PVPers do it all the time too. When I was new to PVP, I died to gear...and also the fact that I was learning to recognize enemy skills, how to keep my HOTs and buffs up, how to time my own burst damage, how to actively mitigate damage beyond just self-healing, and most importantly, how to fight an enemy that didn't stand still and follow telegraphed mechanics. There's a lot of "skill" to PVP beyond gear and I found it to be a pretty steep learning curve.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when ZOS disables all the proc sets in Cyrodiil for their next round of testing, that's for sure!

BXR_Lonestar

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

Scout a keep or do some of the daily quests in Cropsford, Bruma, Velastrus, Chorrol, or Cheydinhal. There are tons of PVE ways to get your daily tickets. I've actually been doing it this way because I can't PVP in my own homed server during a PVP event, which is a BS issue that PVPer's have to deal with when PVE players flood the PVP servers.

I usually get together with a few friends to play in Ravenwatch 1-2x a week, but when the PVP event is going, I can't even get in to play in my homed server. Perhaps a solution would be to give priority to people who have a homed server, and everyone else just gets funnelled into the spare servers. If that happened, then the mainly PVE focused players who are only PVPing for the event would be in with a less hardcore group.

Ascarl

For me PVP is quite enjoyable from time to time but I hat the event.

Agenericname

Miszou wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

As far as gear goes, its a pretty level playing field already. Your choices in sets have more impact that the upgrade from purple to gold do. I'm fairly certain that I dont have a single piece of pvp upgraded to gold aside from weapons.

Surviving in PvP is more about "reading the currents" and having the skills to survive rather than gear.

In my opinion changing to a system like that suggested would ultimately do more harm than good. I PvP and PvE in about equal measure. One of my favorite things about PvP is the theory crafting that can go into. That exists in PvE as well, but not nearly to the same extent. Its one of the aspects that keeps it fairly interesting.

For the most part these threads pop up every time there is a MYM or IC event. Thats fine. @VaranisArano will offer some advice to PvEers venturing into PvP-land to make it a little less painful, the threads will continue until the event is over, and after the event it will all be over and onto the next event, except that PvPers who prefer to spend their time in these zones would have to live with a change like this for the other 48 weeks of the year.

Miszou

Agenericname wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

As far as gear goes, its a pretty level playing field already. Your choices in sets have more impact that the upgrade from purple to gold do. I'm fairly certain that I dont have a single piece of pvp upgraded to gold aside from weapons.

Surviving in PvP is more about "reading the currents" and having the skills to survive rather than gear.

In my opinion changing to a system like that suggested would ultimately do more harm than good. I PvP and PvE in about equal measure. One of my favorite things about PvP is the theory crafting that can go into. That exists in PvE as well, but not nearly to the same extent. Its one of the aspects that keeps it fairly interesting.

For the most part these threads pop up every time there is a MYM or IC event. Thats fine. @VaranisArano will offer some advice to PvEers venturing into PvP-land to make it a little less painful, the threads will continue until the event is over, and after the event it will all be over and onto the next event, except that PvPers who prefer to spend their time in these zones would have to live with a change like this for the other 48 weeks of the year.

Except that it was suggested as an ADDITIONAL campaign, which you would be free to ignore.

Gundug

I actually wish Cyrodiil and Imperial City were purely PVP focused, and not diluted with PVE activities that don’t mesh well with the experience. Battlegrounds have their own design issues, but they don’t contain NPCs with quests, harvesting nodes, skyshards and treasure chests to distract from the purpose of the game mode.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

VaranisArano wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The hurdles/time in pve to play pvp effectively is a lot. Plenty of pve content has huge walls for pvp players...for example, we get a random two monster sets a week, & usually sets years old.

Would I be accepted in a vet dlc/trial with my pvp build & sets? Or would I have to prep for that content to be successful?

PvE players complaining want the reward without the work.

PvP endgame like PvE endgame requires dedication, prep, experience, & yes a lot of dying.

Emphasis mine.

This final sentence is interesting. How many of the PvE events require PvE endgame? As opposed to just normal, every day, overland style activities?

If you want all the rewards/achievements, the Undaunted and Witches Festival require dungeons, arenas, and trials. If you don't like PVP, the Imperial City Event offers the option to do 2 DLC dungeons.

I say this with the caveat that I've seen roleplayers complain that the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood events exclude players who don't want to play evil characters and join those guilds.

ZOS isn't really about making making sure that every event features content that every player enjoys.

Ah true, I had forgotten about the Dremora Motif pages from the Witches Festival, and the Opal Monster Mask style page. But aren't both of these either available to buy from the Impresario using tickets or for gold through the trading system?

Tickets in both of these events do not require Endgame. Undaunted gives tickets for completing FG1. I mean I can do that solo, and my main is a very squishy (low) DPS.

Is there an avenue to the tickets in MYM that is similarly devoid of endgame in PvP? Surely, by entering the PvP zones are we not, as we are so often reminded, subject to all that the name PvP suggests?

All that said, I would have no interest in a PvE version of IC/Cyrodiil if the reciprocal offer was not made to PvP players. I want people to have options to enjoy the game. If we aren't enjoying playing... then something is wrong. So yes, I'd love to see an extra instance added to PvE zones during PvE events to give PvP people a chance to enjoy the events with some extra risk... or even have alternate challenges that were in keeping with the event, that took place in Cyrodiil (or IC), that would provide the same rewards.

I just don't agree with limiting options in such a way as people end up doing things in a game that they don't enjoy.

Doing the Cyrodiil "Scout a Keep" quest is the PvP equivalent of Fungal Grotto 1.

The scout the keep mission is all well and good, and have no issue with that because the odds of running into another player are so low. What I really hate is having to complete Imperial City dailies.. I remember when we used to be able to do those by completing White Gold Tower or Imperial City Prison. It's rubbish. (And before anyone comes at me telling me how "easy" they are, I'm well aware of the various methods of getting them done. It's still insufferable to me personally.)

Do the Arena district from your respawn point.
The Arena District quest lets you sit in the safe silenced zone of your respawn point and as other nearby players free citizens, you'll get quest credit from a position of complete safety. If you want it to go a little faster, venture out from the completely safe zone and kill the respawning dremora yourself from the edge of the platform, taking care to not get killed by NPCs or enemy players sniping from below. That'll get you your IC ticket.

And you are misrembering the WGT/ICP tickets, though understandable so. Those are options during the Imperial City Celebration, as those dungeons are part of the DLC. Midyear Mayhem has never had a dungeon included.

I am well aware of all the dailies that can be done in Imperial City. They're all equally miserable and completely at the mercy of whatever faction happens to be rampaging around at the time if you want to get them done in any amount of time. Theoretically I could just sit atop the platform for half an hour, sure. Not quite as simple as that usually though.

geonsocal

E-M-P-A-T-H-Y...say it with me now: empathy...

aetherial_heavenn

katanagirl1 wrote: »

As someone who does PvE and PvP, the real issue is that some players think it’s fun to hang out in the areas for Cyrodiil town quest turn-in with 10 of their PvP buddies and slaughter the poor PvE players who don’t have a chance. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. The PvE players open the door to turn in the quest and get hit with 10 ultimates before they can do anything. I have been there and seen it happen.

You know you have to open hundreds of those Pelinal boxes to get anything good, and the town dailies are the best way to do it, PvE player or not.

They’ll defend their actions by saying it’s a PvP zone and you should expect to die. I have zero respect for PvP players who do that. There is nothing that can stop them, except other PvP players that keep the towns safe, and I saw one player in zone chat who said he was doing just that.

Outside of the event, there is very good chance that you can slip in and do all of the town dailies without encountering a single PvP player. Done that before, too.

I have mostly been on Gray Host but even there, if opposing factions are actually camping the quest turn in, (not just a random ganker) new PvPers please just just shout out in zone. A bunch of regular PvPers will probably come to clean out their nest. Those farmers of questing player s are worth lots of AP and are generally too useless to actually fight PvPers. We love kicking their ars...ahem.

A lot of regular PvPers actualy would like more people to enjoy PvP and are quite protective of their faction's new players.

The new unlocked campaigns for Mayhem may have a different culture. I know a bunch of us soloers wiped a voice group of high ranked, well known EP players who were farming new questing PvPers on Everwatsit. They got told they were cowards. And when they returned to Grayhost they got much ridicule for P v potatoes.

(Sorry for PvP slang. We are all potatoes at some point against some groups .)

I don't do IC. It's full of toxic gankers at the best of times and the playstyle is very specialised. I don't like it much. But @VaranisArano has some great suggestions on how to do dailies without seeing an enemy player.

Nivinfarr

I'm strictly PVE, and I'm fine with PVP events. I just choose not to participate.

PizzaCat82

There'd have to be restrictions on werewolfs and vampires.. and possible Psijic skill lines..

Lots of opportunity to gain an advantage from skills and ults. I don't think new players will ever stand a chance against PVPers who know what they're doing.

volkeswagon

How about a pve caimpaign for the events. One where everyone is on the same team and instead of fighting other players you fight npc's. You take over bases together by attacking npc's. Once you take it over every so often an army of npc's spawn to take in back. Towns with quests would have neutral npc's. Same idea in Imperial City

magnusthorek

ESO's PvP zones aren't designed only for PvP players. There are POIs, lorebooks, delves, dolmens, quests and achievements PvP players don't care and a PvE player may want.

For this I'd support a non PvP version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City, after all, ESO is a RPG and exploration is its essence.

erio

Well as a pvp player, i demand a special instance of vet cloudrest that doesnt allow me to die, because its unfair to me.

IF YOU ARE BAD AT SOMETHING, you should not reap the rewards. Thats how pve works, and thats how pvp works.

renne

volkeswagon wrote: »

How about a pve caimpaign for the events. One where everyone is on the same team and instead of fighting other players you fight npc's. You take over bases together by attacking npc's. Once you take it over every so often an army of npc's spawn to take in back. Towns with quests would have neutral npc's. Same idea in Imperial City

There are more than enough PvE events to not need to make the couple of PvP events into PvE events too. Be glad you can even do only PvE things to get your event tickets.

Goregrinder

Miszou wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

I'm willing to accept that premise if it's across the board for PVP and PVE content. If I can enter a vet dungeon, wear my PVP build and skill setup, and do almost the same damage and have equal level of success as PVErs running PVE gear setups with full rotations, then I'd be ok with this. Fair is fair I think.

kargen27

Miszou wrote: »

renne wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

How hard is it to scout a keep? Not even any PvP involved

True, unless you're spotted. But that doesn't give you your IC tickets.

Well, your IC ticket is even easier. Literally, just take the Arena daily and sit on your respawn point while other players nearby free the citizens. I've gotten credit towards that quest while crouching in the safe silenced zone over the base trapdoor - as safe as I can get in Imperial City outside of my own home base.

You're wasting your time, mate. You've told folks this twice in this thread already, and people still going on about how they can't get IC tickets without being murdered by PvPers. The thread is only on it's second page! It's not like it's 10 pages deep and people can't be bothered rereading, that would make more sense. People just want to complain, I think.

Come on, everyone else. Give Varanis a break. You've been given an IC cheese alternative three times now.

Except that this thread isn't about how to cheese through PvP and get your tickets without actually participating.

It's about levelling the playing field so that the only difference between players is actual skill - not gear. Good players will still be good and new players just might stand a chance.

A good portion of the gear used for PvP comes from PvE content. Not having proper gear is a player created problem not a problem with the game.