Please explain why medium armor does not have any penalties.

Pr0Skygon

Why is medium armor the only one left out of the penalty mechanic? ZOS mentioned the "Rock paper scissors" effect, so why does 1 type of armor has no downside, while the other 2 has at least 3 downsides.
Some of the possible penalties for medium armor:
1. Increase damage taken by "martial" and magical attacks by 0.5% for each piece worn.
2. Increase damage taken by oblivion attacks by 1% for each piece worn.
3. Increase damage taken by critical attacks by 1% for each piece worn.
4. Increase damage taken by 1% for each piece worn why under effect of hard CC (stun, root, knock up, etc).
5. Increase cost of break free by 5% for each piece worn.
6. Decrease the amount of damage blocked by 1% per piece worn.
7. Increase your damage taken from Single Target Attacks by 2% while sprinting.
8. Increase the cost of Continuous Roll Dodge penalty by 3% for each piece worn.

Of course, these are just suggestions, and I wouldn't wish for medium to have all these downsides at the same time. Just an idea, for such an odd decision from ZOS.

Zer0_CooL

As explained in the patch notes, the idea was to "sharpen the rocks, paper scissors effect" of the armor system. Just that medium armor is spock now.

Banana

I find it looks the worst

JayKwellen

Well, maybe it's because medium didn't really get anything terribly exciting either.

In a 5/2 or 5/1/1 build sprinting is 5% cheaper, sneaking is 25% cheaper, blocking is 15% cheaper. The only thing that's really worthwhile is block, and even still blocking isn't your main survivability tool in medium and would be much more useful for heavy. The only truly useful survivability tool, roll dodge, was given to light armor. The 25% cheaper break free or the 15% cheaper dodgeroll from light, or 10% damage mitigation from heavy, are both orders of magnitude more useful for survival.

The 2% AoE reduction is negligible, as is the 2% speed.

The armor bonuses make medium a tiny bit more slippery I guess. The cost for that was losing 5% weapon damage and 2.5% crit chance, which actually is noticeable in a negative way.

So if I had to guess why no negatives, I'd say it's because the nerfs were just moved to the agility and dexterity passives, as medium is now actually worse than it was before and, in PvP in particular, an even less justifiable choice than it was before.

I'd be fine with medium being given negatives in line with the others, but it would first need to be given something useful as they did too.

Anyron

Just another example of stamina superiority over magicka...
No more magicka blocking with frost staff..

Pr0Skygon

JayKwellen wrote: »

Well, maybe it's because medium didn't really get anything terribly exciting either.

In a 5/2 or 5/1/1 build sprinting is 5% cheaper, sneaking is 25% cheaper, blocking is 15% cheaper. The only thing that's really worthwhile is block, and even still blocking isn't your main survivability tool in medium and would be much more useful for heavy. The only truly useful survivability tool, roll dodge, was given to light armor. The 25% cheaper break free or the 15% cheaper dodgeroll from light, or 10% damage mitigation from heavy, are both orders of magnitude more useful for survival.

The 2% AoE reduction is negligible, as is the 2% speed.

The armor bonuses make medium a tiny bit more slippery I guess. The cost for that was losing 5% weapon damage and 2.5% crit chance, which actually is noticeable in a negative way.

So if I had to guess why no negatives, I'd say it's because the nerfs were just moved to the agility and dexterity passives, as medium is now actually worse than it was before and, in PvP in particular, an even less justifiable choice than it was before.

I'd be fine with medium being given negatives in line with the others, but it would first need to be given something useful as they did too.

I agree that 2% AOE reduction and 2% speed is quite negligible, but you only need 1 piece of medium armor to fully gain these advantages, unlike the light and heavy armor. I think it's fair to give medium armor a negligible disadvantage to compensate for this difference in design decision.

AinSoph

Apparently, the bonuses from Medium are so little it doesn't need penalties. This of course coming from the same logic that light armor counters heavy armor and vice versa even though Light is a Magic set but Heavy is a tanking set.

Duhne

Medium has more on top of its already superior toolkit.
Medium has the more damage from its original passive : crit + weapon damage
While magicka lose one passive just to make up for the diff in armor resistance (penetration)
Medium even got a free minor breach with the new status effect on physical damage
You already had speed, you get more
Block cost reduction is a hudge buff while magicka got a big nerf there
More AoE resistance while you already were the only one to have it

In other games magicka is weaker because they have more CC ability. It's not true in ESO as all the most powerful tools are also used by stam builds. CC are so easy to counter, you even got automatic breakfree (escapist poison, new CP skill), ways to get immunity etc

Shields are too weak. So what does light armor got ?
More damage from physical damage of course.

So magicka has all this drawbacks because it can start its so obvious and slow combo from distance ?
Medium armor burst is much more easy to pull off. Gap closer, skill, ult, finisher end of the story

Light armor is clumsy, it's designed for trials, not for PVP.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Well, maybe it's because medium didn't really get anything terribly exciting either.

In a 5/2 or 5/1/1 build sprinting is 5% cheaper, sneaking is 25% cheaper, blocking is 15% cheaper. The only thing that's really worthwhile is block, and even still blocking isn't your main survivability tool in medium and would be much more useful for heavy. The only truly useful survivability tool, roll dodge, was given to light armor. The 25% cheaper break free or the 15% cheaper dodgeroll from light, or 10% damage mitigation from heavy, are both orders of magnitude more useful for survival.

The 2% AoE reduction is negligible, as is the 2% speed.

The armor bonuses make medium a tiny bit more slippery I guess. The cost for that was losing 5% weapon damage and 2.5% crit chance, which actually is noticeable in a negative way.

So if I had to guess why no negatives, I'd say it's because the nerfs were just moved to the agility and dexterity passives, as medium is now actually worse than it was before and, in PvP in particular, an even less justifiable choice than it was before.

I'd be fine with medium being given negatives in line with the others, but it would first need to be given something useful as they did too.

I agree that 2% AOE reduction and 2% speed is quite negligible, but you only need 1 piece of medium armor to fully gain these advantages, unlike the light and heavy armor. I think it's fair to give medium armor a negligible disadvantage to compensate for this difference in design decision.

The disadvantage is alredy here,all the bonus of medium are mhe at best beside block cost but again medium use roll dodge as main defense not block so the bonus is not that great either,LA/AH got strong bonus but with a downside.

As i said in another thread you guys are like "LA/HA got pros/cons but MA nothing"leaving out the fact that MA dosen't get any mitigation buff aswell unlike HA/LA and the bonus beside one are mhe at best which is the disadvantage.

JamieAubrey

Because ZOS WANT you to play STAM

Chaos2088

It needs to have a penalty just like the others.......makes it fair.

JayKwellen

Duhne wrote: »

Medium has the more damage from its original passive : crit + weapon damage

Both of those passives were directly nerfed.

Duhne wrote: »

Medium even got a free minor breach with the new status effect on physical damage

That's not connected to medium armor. That's a status effect from physical damage, which can be applied no matter what type of armor you're wearing.

Duhne wrote: »

You already had speed, you get more

Must have missed all that new speed, unless you're referring to that whole 2% we got.

Duhne wrote: »

Block cost reduction is a hudge buff while magicka got a big nerf there

Block reduction is nice and all, but medium armor isn't used for block mitigation builds.

Duhne wrote: »

More AoE resistance while you already were the only one to have it

A whole 2%. Amazing.

Duhne wrote: »

Light armor is clumsy, it's designed for trials, not for PVP.

Medium isn't either, as heavy is currently more congruent with the meta and better in almost every possible way, and these changes do nothing to make it any more appealing.

SHOW

@JayKwellen

(PvP perspective here)

I just checked the PTS, it looks like all of the old armor passives are still there, they just added this paper rock scissors on top.

So, light still sucks, but got some stam sustain relief (e.g. dodge roll cost), but will now get even more anihilated by stam burst lol

Med still has all of its old passives (even cheaper dodge roll etc), plus a few more bonuses. So, even better?

Same for heavy, add benefits except they take a lil more off meta mag damage...

Honestly, I don't see much changing at all in PvP, am I missing something?

now if they replaced the old passives with this., then maybe something interesting to talk about...