Should Malacath Affect Procs

SupremeRissole

Haven't really heard anyone say they like the Malakarth DLC meta, and with no changes to Malacath's Band of Brutality in the current PTS notes (I know it's only week 1 but I feel it should be a high priority) I think we should actually get some numbers emphasising what the community thinks for the devs to see.

caperb

No, procs should not be affected but it also needs an adjustment

Nerf malacath so it isn't the set that you need to have for the highest damage output on almost every class, but keep it viable. Nerf damaging proc sets so they won't be a must have anymore, but keep them viable so you don't completely cripple yourself when using them (just a bit weaker than stat sets).

Canned_Apples

No, procs should not be affected

If anything, they should at least nerf proc set damage by the boost that p2w malacath grants.
But @ZOS_BrianWheeler seems to love this cheese combat style.

crazywolfpusher

No, procs should not be affected

caperb wrote: »

Nerf malacath so it isn't the set that you need to have for the highest damage output on almost every class, but keep it viable. Nerf damaging proc sets so they won't be a must have anymore, but keep them viable so you don't completely cripple yourself when using them (just a bit weaker than stat sets).

Maybe proc sets should receive the same Alkosh treatment.

Solariken

Other

I just don't understand why they want Malacath to benefit from procs but not Pale Order. Be consistent ZOS.

karekiz

No, procs should not be affected

No, Remove procs from PvP and return crits to procs.

Dracane

No, procs should not be affected

Malacath is fine as it is, but should not affect proc sets.
We know the Devs are capable of coding it in a way that this works, so nerfing Malacath itself is unnecessary and avoidable.

Firstmep

Other

Frankly, I'd prefer either it doesn't affect procsets, or if it was reworked into something less polarizing.
Malacath(at least for pvp) has by far the biggest power budget at the moment.
And frankly with the continued nerfs to crit chance, it's only getting stronger in comparison.
You can already run around in 5-7 medium armor pieces in cp pvp and not hit 30% crit chance, and next patch it's getting even worse.

relentless_turnip

No, procs should not be affected

It will be adjusted in the chapter (u30)patch notes. Mark my words 😂

Dracane

No, procs should not be affected

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It will be adjusted in the chapter (u30)patch notes. Mark my words 😂

Screenshotted. I might just put you in my signature if the time comes and your words reveal themselves to be untrue.

JoSePHRiNG

Yes, it's fine how it is

I think it should work because it literally increases your damage output.
But I think they should also do critical damage too, so players who build critical chance also get rewarded.

Zodiarkslayer

No, procs should not be affected

Malacath's Band is a trade off: Damage for Crit Damage.
Therefore anything that cannot crit, should not benefit from Malacath's damage bonus.

Simple, Logical, Irrefutable.

Vildebill

Make Malacath not work with proc sets or give proc sets a global cooldown. You could also make proc sets scale with an offensive stat.

There are many ways to fix this unhealthy meta we have now.

techyeshic

No, procs should not be affected but it also needs an adjustment

Im hesitant to say malacath also needs to be adjusted on top of not boost procs as I like me some wild hunt and that sort of thing to where it's kind of a decision; but with them reducing crit chance more, I think its going the wrong way.

BalticBlues

Other

Firstmep wrote: »

Malacath(at least for pvp) has by far the biggest power budget at the moment.
And frankly with the continued nerfs to crit chance, it's only getting stronger in comparison.

THIS. LIGHT ARMOR GETS CRIPPLED MORE AND MORE. PATCH BY PATCH.

So how many people still can use LA in PvP? 7%? 8%?
And how many people now run HA in PvP? 70%? 80%?
ZOS please read your own numbers. We need LA to get better, not worse.

If LA crits are nerfed even further, Malacath as the biggest HA booster has be toned down as well.

ol_BANK_lo

Yes, it's fine how it is

SupremeRissole wrote: »

Haven't really heard anyone say they like the Malakarth DLC meta, and with no changes to Malacath's Band of Brutality in the current PTS notes (I know it's only week 1 but I feel it should be a high priority) I think we should actually get some numbers emphasising what the community thinks for the devs to see.

The whole Malacath/proc set thing should be reviewed for sure. But I voted to keep it as someone who didn't run Malacath on my light armor Mag DK all the way up until now when I finished my 5 star on him. I am now playing with Malacath for the first time on my stam toon.

I think what needs to be looked at is the heavy armor meta in general. Malacath with procs is giving people to much reason to run 6 or 7 heavy and 40k health and do lots of damage (yes, that's what I have right now). Heavy armor and high health builds should be a trade off and do very little damage. I don't know how to implement that, but I think we should start with that and work backwards, not start with a Malacath or Proc nerf. There are probably things we can do with heavy armor and high health passives first.

redspecter23

Other

Procs are a whole huge mess that needs to be dealt with in a variety of ways. However, Malacath specifically comes with a downside that doesn't affect procs and an upside that does. That doesn't seem right to me.

They could make damage procs scale off your stats, allow them to crit and be affected by Malacath. That would be fine, but require a lot of balancing downward. This would require the largest amount of work, but would lead to the greatest balance overall. If done properly, it would turn heavy armor builds into wet noodles, which in my opinion is what they should be.

olsborg

No, procs should not be affected but it also needs an adjustment

It should not affect proccsets (proccsets cant crit in the first place, so why should it buff them) Also, that fact that you cant crit anymore with malacath slotted should also mean your heals.

Urzigurumash

Yes, it's fine how it is

redspecter23 wrote: »

it would turn heavy armor builds into wet noodles, which in my opinion is what they should be.

Sure, if you define a "tank" as something made for holding fluids. We just got done with a meta of excessive roll-dodging and self-healing in Medium, and Medium wasn't nerfed.

redspecter23 wrote: »

However, Malacath specifically comes with a downside that doesn't affect procs and an upside that does. That doesn't seem right to me.

They could make damage procs scale off your stats, allow them to crit and be affected by Malacath.

I agree with you here, but I don't agree that Heavy needs a direct nerf to damage. Have you tried a pure stats build in Heavy lately, with or without Malacath? It's not great

sweatapodimas

No, procs should not be affected

absolutely not

Urzigurumash

Yes, it's fine how it is

It would be nice if procs had co-efficients, or if skills' co-efficients were buffed, but I think these are both unlikely changes. There's no way procs can crit at these current values, obviously, so if procs don't get co-efficients, they probably won't get crits.

Give us 5k mag and 5k stam with Battlespirit, or take away the 5k health, or reduce Battlespirit's damage penalty - the same way the infinite roll-dodging and Vigor-casting Tower Trolls were nerfed by the increased Battlespirit healing penalty.

No comment about things on PTS which may or may not address this issue.

Lumenn

Yes, it's fine how it is

I think it's fine. Just remove all procs from PvP and leave it that way. Removes a whole system from the nerf screamers.

redspecter23

Other

Urzigurumash wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

it would turn heavy armor builds into wet noodles, which in my opinion is what they should be.

Sure, if you define a "tank" as something made for holding fluids. We just got done with a meta of excessive roll-dodging and self-healing in Medium, and Medium wasn't nerfed.

redspecter23 wrote: »

However, Malacath specifically comes with a downside that doesn't affect procs and an upside that does. That doesn't seem right to me.

They could make damage procs scale off your stats, allow them to crit and be affected by Malacath.

I agree with you here, but I don't agree that Heavy needs a direct nerf to damage. Have you tried a pure stats build in Heavy lately, with or without Malacath? It's not great

You are correct that without procs, just going with stat based damage on heavy builds is not great. I think we disagree on whether or not that's a bad thing. I think if you go with too much heavy armor and pump health, you shouldn't hit well at all. You traded your damage for survivability. If you want to hit harder, shed that heavy armor, put on med or light and shift some of that health stat into your damage stat. Now your dps goes up, but survivability goes down.

The only thing really stopping that from being a reality is damage procs being static damage. Malacath shines a light on that and makes it even more apparent there is an issue there.

Araneae6537

No, procs should not be affected

Don’t nerf Malacath— there’s already the trade-off of no crits.

I didn’t realize it currently affected damage from proc sets... It is some of them that are the problem, such as Crimson Twilight, OP and gimmicky, IMHO.

Urzigurumash

Yes, it's fine how it is

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think if you go with too much heavy armor and pump health, you shouldn't hit well at all. You traded your damage for survivability. If you want to hit harder, shed that heavy armor, put on med or light and shift some of that health stat into your damage stat.

I don't see why a player with 64 points in stam, all infused damage glyphs, Warrior sign, 7th, Fury, etc. would be considered a defensive spec, really. They can't put on Medium, they're in Fury and 7th.

Let's be clear, a player in a purely offensive spec in Medium shouldn't be able to survive very well, and a player in a purely defensive spec in Heavy shouldn't be able to damage very well, but a mix between the two should be able to do a mix between the two. Right?

redspecter23

Other

Urzigurumash wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think if you go with too much heavy armor and pump health, you shouldn't hit well at all. You traded your damage for survivability. If you want to hit harder, shed that heavy armor, put on med or light and shift some of that health stat into your damage stat.

I don't see why a player with 64 points in stam, all infused damage glyphs, Warrior sign, 7th, Fury, etc. would be considered a defensive spec, really. They can't put on Medium, they're in Fury and 7th.

Let's be clear, a player in a purely offensive spec in Medium shouldn't be able to survive very well, and a player in a purely defensive spec in Heavy shouldn't be able to damage very well, but a mix between the two should be able to do a mix between the two. Right?

Of course. How well it should work is up for debate. I was being a bit simplistic when I said that heavy should not hit hard. In your example you have all heavy on, but have invested into stamina and weapon damage. You've put stats into offense even if your armor spec isn't medium. You will inherently lose the medium armor passives in exchange for the heavy passives so you have given up some damage for defense based on that armor choice. Perhaps the set bonuses of fury and 7th offset that enough to be worth the trade and that's fine.

techyeshic

No, procs should not be affected but it also needs an adjustment

redspecter23 wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think if you go with too much heavy armor and pump health, you shouldn't hit well at all. You traded your damage for survivability. If you want to hit harder, shed that heavy armor, put on med or light and shift some of that health stat into your damage stat.

I don't see why a player with 64 points in stam, all infused damage glyphs, Warrior sign, 7th, Fury, etc. would be considered a defensive spec, really. They can't put on Medium, they're in Fury and 7th.

Let's be clear, a player in a purely offensive spec in Medium shouldn't be able to survive very well, and a player in a purely defensive spec in Heavy shouldn't be able to damage very well, but a mix between the two should be able to do a mix between the two. Right?

Of course. How well it should work is up for debate. I was being a bit simplistic when I said that heavy should not hit hard. In your example you have all heavy on, but have invested into stamina and weapon damage. You've put stats into offense even if your armor spec isn't medium. You will inherently lose the medium armor passives in exchange for the heavy passives so you have given up some damage for defense based on that armor choice. Perhaps the set bonuses of fury and 7th offset that enough to be worth the trade and that's fine.

How else are these heavy builds doing damage? It gets to be a problem when people keep screaming "Nerf heavy damage" when there is that tradeoff and what their actual problem with is investing in health being sky high and letting procs do damage and heals, while have health based healing abilities. We need to identify the real issues.

Urzigurumash

Yes, it's fine how it is

redspecter23 wrote: »

Of course. How well it should work is up for debate. I was being a bit simplistic when I said that heavy should not hit hard. In your example you have all heavy on, but have invested into stamina and weapon damage. You've put stats into offense even if your armor spec isn't medium. You will inherently lose the medium armor passives in exchange for the heavy passives so you have given up some damage for defense based on that armor choice. Perhaps the set bonuses of fury and 7th offset that enough to be worth the trade and that's fine.

Right, thank you, I just wanted to clear that up. I think it should work as well as anything. The best solution is giving procs co-efficients, but let's assume that's out of reach.

Of course Hunter's Venom and Caluurion's aren't the most OP proc sets out there, but their popularity is proof enough it's not Malacath's interaction with procs that's the root issue, don't you think?

Urzigurumash

Yes, it's fine how it is

If the answer to the question about Caluurion's and Hunter's Venom is that these are Crit-based classes' way to cope during this meta, then Crit damage is too low. Better to adjust things back a little in favor of offensive stats, if procs can't get co-efficients, rather than nerfing an item named after Malacath.

Nerhesi

Yes, it's fine how it is

Procs need to be effective.

That means procs need to be better than pure stats or else they are literally a trap.

This is why Procs need malacath right now. Because they are completely sub-optimal without it.

If you want Malacath not to effect procs, then go ahead and boost proc damage by 25%.

itscompton

Yes, it's fine how it is

Maybe they could just quit nerfing crit chance and damage so that the alternative to wearing Malacath is viable.

I run pure stat sets on all my builds so it wouldn't affect me directly and I get as frustrated as anyone when a NB pops out of stealth right next to me and does a LA/surprise attack combo that sets off Caluurion's and Flame Blossom and instantly deletes me. However I certainly don't want Cyrodiil to be completely proc free, that just seems like it would limit freedom and choice of playing style.
Honestly even with their proc sets and heavy armor I'm still out there smashing people on my raw stat MagSorc so my mind frame is live and let die.