Does Zenimax monitor me while playing ESO?

NelsonPandela

As suggested in the title, I would like to know if and how long Zenimax stores logs of:

• The zone chat
• Whispered messages
• Messages I send/receive by the post system
• My ingame contacts (e.g. whom I group or trade with)

I know that some of these things need to be monitored and logged e.g. to ensure that a player can be reported if he/she says something appropriate, ...
But I'd still like to know what exactly is monitored. I'm especially interested about the ingame post messages, as I use them to communicate with my friends, sometimes about serious things.

I guess this should be noted somewhere in the privacy policy for the game (not the website or other zenimax services), but firstly I was not able to find it, an secondly... it will probably take ages and a lawyer to read it . So maybe some of you guys know the answers?

Oh and bonus question: Since Europe has its GDPR, do the same rules apply there?

Ackwalan

Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted. What a company does with that information is the debate.

Vanya

Ackwalan wrote: »

Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted. What a company does with that information is the debate.

It does and it can be perm deleted from their archive database, it is probably stored and then wiped out ,Zenimax will not tell us mortals what they do for good, in theory you can save chat and store it but how long is going to last, to make it more complex all that info where doe it goes, World wide web does not have infinite capacity

Facebook messages you can delete it as user, but they are not deleted from their system ,, after some time certain time some data must be purged

Telling "Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted" is entirely false and backed up without zero evidence or you are told simply what they want you to know

Khajiitihaswares

Vanya wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted. What a company does with that information is the debate.

It does and it can be perm deleted from their archive database, it is probably stored and then wiped out ,Zenimax will not tell us mortals what they do for good, in theory you can save chat and store it but how long is going to last, to make it more complex all that info where doe it goes, World wide web does not have infinite capacity

Facebook messages you can delete it as user, but they are not deleted from their system ,, after some time certain time some data must be purged

Telling "Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted" is entirely false and backed up without zero evidence or you are told simply what they want you to know

Its a saying... Once its online it is there forever. When comes to MMO's its slightly different. Plus you have websites that simply all they do is archive what is posted or snap shots of pages how they look at current time... To a degree saying not wrong. In this case for the OP The game see's it all when you post it in game. The GM's or whichever team can see that data can pull up quite a bit if given timestamps and such.

Tremuto

Everything you do on the internet is always monitored, whether it be by the developers of a video game, your ISP, or your parents looking over your shoulder. I would think it would be obvious that ZOS would have some sort of capability to check communication logs, especially when there's chat addons that can save specific chat logs for X amount of hours.

If they didn't, it would make the report function very useless if they couldn't check the logs of someone who was reported for harassment or vile language in Zone chat for the umpteenth time.

Just don't be horribly racist or bigoted, I think you'll be fine.

wishlist14

If you are not doing anything wrong then why worry about it?

I see playing games as being under CCTV surveillence 24/7....nothing is entirely private and there really is no need for it to be since it is a game.

I personally feel safer myself that everything is recorded so if someone were to harrass me etc I know zos take it seriously and protect me. Zos are awesome when it comes to protecting their players from bullying, harrassment, stalking etc etc.
Zos definately helped me when I had an ingame issue I needed help with.

josiahva

I doubt very much that ZOS permanently stores ANY messages you type into a chat box, hell, the chat box is wiped if you log off so even you can't see what you have typed. I honestly doubt that ZOS cares what you saying to who and reporting someone would likely require a screenshot as proof. Its possible there are systems in place to log every keystroke, but there is little reason for ZOS to actually use any such thing unless they find their systems are being abused in some way. Anyone who goes to the effort of reporting someone because of hurt feelings is going to be sending a screenshot as proof. Even if they did it would be virtually impossible to prove a given individual typed something, especially if other people have access to their account/computer. How do you prove someone typed something after all? You can't, you can only imply that something was typed from their account, or with some type of IP trace from their computer.

That being said, if you are worried about something you type coming back to bite you at some time in the future, maybe you shouldn't type it to begin with.

wishlist14 wrote: »

If you are not doing anything wrong then why worry about it?

I see playing games as being under CCTV surveillence 24/7....nothing is entirely private and there really is no need for it to be since it is a game.

I personally feel safer myself that everything is recorded so if someone were to harrass me etc I know zos take it seriously and protect me. Zos are awesome when it comes to protecting their players from bullying, harrassment, stalking etc etc.
Zos definately helped me when I had an ingame issue I needed help with.

You shouldn't feel safer being monitored 24/7, its all a matter of intent. It doesn't matter how your best friend would use power to help you, but how your worst enemy would use power to hurt you. Power of the type you mention is only a good thing as long as the person using it is a good person....those people could change overnight. Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

VaranisArano

Obviously, the Privacy Policy does state: "We may also maintain records of the in-game communications and information that you post in chat sessions, forums, and in other areas of the Services."

They also collect data on "Activities, stats, friends and preferences: We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account."

In addition, we know they track trades, as bad gold has been removed from players before.

As for how long? Well, consider that ZOS keeps some of this stuff because it might be required for legal processes. "We may also disclose your personal information if we believe we are required to do so by law, or that doing so is reasonably necessary to comply with legal processes; when we believe necessary or appropriate to disclose personal information to law enforcement or other governmental or regulatory authorities or the courts (in any relevant jurisdiction worldwide), such as to investigate actual or suspected fraud or violations of law, breaches of security, or breaches of this Policy; to regularly exercise our rights in judicial, administrative or arbitration proceedings (as applicable in Brazil); to respond to any claims against us; and, to protect the rights, property, or personal safety of ZeniMax, our customers, or the public."


But honestly, this portion is probably more applicable. Bold is mine for emphasis.
"User Generated Content
You may choose to disclose information (including personal information) about yourself in the course of contributing user generated content to ZeniMax Services such as forums. Information that you disclose in any of these forums is unencrypted public information, and may be accessed by members of the public, who are not subject to this Policy. In addition, when you enter certain public areas of our Services, your username and other public profile information may be viewable by others. You should have no expectation of privacy as to any information you post or display in our forums or games, or in your profile, or that you otherwise make available on our or through our Services."

This make sense. Zone/group chat and whispers are not exactly private. I mean, I take screenshots of the chat log when I report someone for TOS-breaking speech as proof when I send in the report. Even if ZOS eventually deletes those chat logs, I've still got the screenshot in my email. As they say, nothing ever truly gets deleted from the internet.

Finally, Data Retention. Again, bold is done by me for emphasis.
"10. Data Retention
We will retain your personal information as long as necessary for purposes for which the personal information was collected and is used by us, as stated in this Policy. If you wish to cancel your account or request that we no longer use your personal information to provide the Services to you, please contact us as set forth below, in Section 13. Contact Details. However, if you withdraw consent or otherwise object to our collection, use and disclosure of your personal information, you may not be able to use the Services. Further, to the extent permitted by applicable law, we will retain and use your personal information as necessary to comply with our legal obligations, resolve disputes, maintain appropriate business records, and enforce our agreements."

Should you desire to ask ZOS to remove content you posted, withdraw your consent for data collection, etc. Check out the contact details in Section 13 of the privacy policy. Just, ah, "Please keep in mind that certain Services will not be available if you withdraw your consent, or otherwise delete or object to our processing of certain personal information."


Overall, I'd suggest that if the privacy of your chat messages is a concern, using the in-game chat of a video game is probably not the wisest choice going forward.

NelsonPandela

Frist of all, thanks for the answers.
I didn't want to start a discussion on why privacy is important, as I think this is a personal value and everyone sees it a little bit different.

Nethertheless I see the game as a communication platform like any messenger, and even facebook must state in its privacy policy, how long they store our personal data. According to law (at least in the EU) companies must tell you what data they store about you, and if you ask them, they are even obligated to let you see a copy of them.

As saied above I was not able to find a link to the games privacy policy. I know that you are promted with it when you log into your ingame account for the first time, but don't know how to access it a second time... Any links ?

Gilvoth

Ackwalan wrote: »

Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted. What a company does with that information is the debate.

this ^
exactly

VaranisArano

NelsonPandela wrote: »

Frist of all, thanks for the answers.
I didn't want to start a discussion on why privacy is important, as I think this is a personal value and everyone sees it a little bit different.

Nethertheless I see the game as a communication platform like any messenger, and even facebook must state in its privacy policy, how long they store our personal data. According to law (at least in the EU) companies must tell you what data they store about you, and if you ask them, they are even obligated to let you see a copy of them.

As saied above I was not able to find a link to the games privacy policy. I know that you are promted with it when you log into your ingame account for the first time, but don't know how to access it a second time... Any links ?

Sorry! I just Googled it: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/privacy-policy

Starlight_Whisper

NelsonPandela wrote: »

Frist of all, thanks for the answers.
I didn't want to start a discussion on why privacy is important, as I think this is a personal value and everyone sees it a little bit different.

Nethertheless I see the game as a communication platform like any messenger, and even facebook must state in its privacy policy, how long they store our personal data. According to law (at least in the EU) companies must tell you what data they store about you, and if you ask them, they are even obligated to let you see a copy of them.

As saied above I was not able to find a link to the games privacy policy. I know that you are promted with it when you log into your ingame account for the first time, but don't know how to access it a second time... Any links ?

Interesting maybe they are breaking EU law

Hallothiel

No they are not breaking EU law.
Their privacy notice is on the website & if read, will answer the OP’s queries.

And just curious as to why they consider this a ‘communication platform’. That’s just *their* opinion; most would consider this a computer game.

NelsonPandela

VaranisArano wrote: »

NelsonPandela wrote: »

Frist of all, thanks for the answers.
I didn't want to start a discussion on why privacy is important, as I think this is a personal value and everyone sees it a little bit different.

Nethertheless I see the game as a communication platform like any messenger, and even facebook must state in its privacy policy, how long they store our personal data. According to law (at least in the EU) companies must tell you what data they store about you, and if you ask them, they are even obligated to let you see a copy of them.

As saied above I was not able to find a link to the games privacy policy. I know that you are promted with it when you log into your ingame account for the first time, but don't know how to access it a second time... Any links ?

Sorry! I just Googled it: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/privacy-policy

Havent seen your answer befor posting mine, forgot to refresh the page. As I think, your answer tells us the mostly everything I asked for, thanks for taking your time to write it

Waseem

ESO behavior is FULLY tracked including chat, actions, loot, skills clicks, EVERYTHING

The tracking mechanisms are also a reason of the horrible performance ESO is facing, however, nobody gives that any attention.

SeaGtGruff

Vanya wrote: »

Telling "Nothing on the internet ever gets deleted" is entirely false

I agree. If you think that nothing on the internet ever gets deleted, you are mistaken. Companies and private individuals who host or run websites can go out of business or die, lose their web hosting services or internet providers, not to mention the prospect of catastrophic equipment failure such as hard drive crashes-- and then there's also the act of deleting old archives of their websites because they're running out of storage space. Even archival sites such as The Wayback Machine don't have everything saved in their archives.

On the other hand, I do think it's a good idea for people to behave themselves as though everything they say and do-- both on the internet and in "real life"-- were being recorded and saved for all time.

Pauwer

I hope they track and investigate all my daily crashes.

PizzaCat82

They may keep those logs, but my dealings with support lead me to believe that customer support that reviews things does not have access to them unless they have a good reason. (IE I always have to provide screenshots of any scamming that occurs)

drunkendx

wishlist14 wrote: »

If you are not doing anything wrong then why worry about it?

I see playing games as being under CCTV surveillence 24/7....nothing is entirely private and there really is no need for it to be since it is a game.

I personally feel safer myself that everything is recorded so if someone were to harrass me etc I know zos take it seriously and protect me. Zos are awesome when it comes to protecting their players from bullying, harrassment, stalking etc etc.
Zos definately helped me when I had an ingame issue I needed help with.

Kind of agree with this.

And OP reminded me of an article I read 10+ years ago about mafia using ingame chat of some MMO to give out "sensitive" orders. Don't know if it was true or just a rumor though.

rrimöykk

People used to sell drugs in Dota 2's region chat when it launched. Good times. Backfired fast

Matchimus

I wear a foil hat whenever I play. My thoughts would be more concerning to them than my playing behaviour.

Sanctum74

Yes we are always watching, please wear pants.

Eiagra

EU also has a separate server, which I presume has a separate terms of service that is aligned with the GDPR more closely compared to the US server, which I think only has to align to a few special cases in states like California (and maybe Florida? -- not 100% sure).

But in general, if there is something you feel is especially sensitive, you should not be using an MMO as a communications medium. Find a method that offers end-to-end encryption for sensitive topics (there are a fair few out there).

Calm_Fury

Of course they do, like every single company that has a service on the internet, basically, these days.

They do have a bunch of policies that details what they do with the information.

But, seriously, they have like 5 devs to do all the combat related stuff. Do you really think ZOS has time/interested in going through an individual player's log to spy on them?

They likely collect info on everything you do in the game. It will likely die without a single person taking a look at it when the game dies.

rpa

When a mmo pulls the plug, all user data will be deleted as hazardous waste. Other than that, assume everything you do or communicate ingame is monitored, stored and analyzed. So in any mmo one could expect something like a private type***ing session with a willing party might trigger some filter and end to be rewiewed by some poor mod for potential tos violation and maybe result in surprise social ban... (I don't have faintest idea how ESO in particular handles this matter.)

Edit: ***d a ***

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all!

After review, and removing a handful of posts, we have decided to close this thread as it seems to be heading down the path of discussing real world politics. The discussion of such just so happens to fall under the Inappropriate Content and Language section of our rules, and is stated as follows:

• Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
  • Extreme violence
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If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take some time to review them here.

Also, to add, if anyone is interested, at the bottom of the page you will find links for our Privacy Policy, Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, and much more.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-