PC economy is running out of control

Eedat

There is currently a massive amount of hyperinflation happening on PC. It might be happening on other platforms too, but I can't confirm that personally. The prices on just about everything are inflating out of control. Normally things like mats have peaks and valleys as new content and events happen. That is not the case on PC. Prices are rapidly getting out of control. Up and up and up with no dips. 2 months ago the average price of a chromium plate was 120k. It's now 190k and rising daily. Other upgrade mats are experiencing the same. Alloys and wax selling for 12-13k. Motifs are going up. Overland sets are going up. Even crowns going for 400:1+ even with a crown sale going on.

This is a compound issue. First, the crackdown on bots has drastically reduced supply while sticker book has drastically increased demand. I am in no way saying the banhammer needs to be relaxed, but the supply has to be picked up somewhere. Maybe increasing drop rates from writs and refining. Second, the gold sinks are obviously failing. Even the trader bids flushing hundreds of millions if not billions down the toilet every week isn't enough. There needs to be more large gold sinks added. Luxury and gold vendor help. Maybe allow people to buy things at the Telvar stores and master crafter at inflated gold prices. I don't know tbh.

Something has to give though. This crazy hyperinflation isn't sustainable and the bubble needs to be popped.

zvavi

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

Munkfist

So long as people, myself included, are willing to pay for the convenience of not having to farm the mats ourselves, prices will keep up.

That's just how it goes, fewer people are willing to put in the time to add to the supply, so it's a given that prices will go on the rise. Time is money. Either pay the growing cost for convenience, or spend the time yourself to farm the materials.

I personally do both, I buy up to support guilds, as well as farm mats as I enjoy farming them, and rarely sell them. I see nothing wrong with the state of the markets, the ones with a lot of gold put in the effort to earn that gold. Supply and demand is a very real thing.

Khajiitihaswares

Supply and demand... If player base pays the prices then well that is the price.

*Looks at 100 mil brought in.*

Yeap this is fine. You can list and sell as well do the same.

redlink1979

Munkfist wrote: »

So long as people (...) are willing to pay for the convenience of not having to farm the mats (...), prices will keep up. (...)

^ This, always this...

Eedat

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

Munkfist

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

zvavi

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

Yes they do. 3.5% is getting removed. only 3.5% goes to the guild.

I will tell you a little secret. Before they introduced the new set collections system, I had a prediction. The prediction was: "mat prices are gonna go up, because people will be arming their characters". Hey look what is happening now. What a surprise. It is just catching up now because earlier performance was that bad, with addition of the big gold addition that happened during double gold event. And people not understanding they can sell for higher yet.

Also "too much" is 100% relative. In my opinion it is still pretty fine prices. Think they are too much? Farm the mats yourself.

Kiralyn2000

Eedat wrote: »

Even crowns going for 400:1+ even with a crown sale going on.

Given that many of the Crowns being sold either came from earlier sales, or from the stockpiles people build up by subscribing to ESO+, I wouldn't really expect a crown sale to effect the exchange rate. /shrug

Eedat

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

Vevvev

Could also be the inverse OP where supply is going down. All the cheaper stuff got bought up leaving behind only the expensive things.

idk

Munkfist wrote: »

So long as people, myself included, are willing to pay for the convenience of not having to farm the mats ourselves, prices will keep up.

Yep. Supply and Demand. That translates that if the supply becomes too costly for you then it demands you farm the stuff yourself.

rumple9

Prices of gold mats have risen because of the new sticker book

Taleof2Cities

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

What would happen if you ignored the PC economy altogether, @Eedat, and farmed the mats you need yourself for free?

BisDasBlutGefriert

I've been playing off and on since before One Tamriel. Never been in any guilds, have a ton of mats from farming them and 38k crowns still. I don't really need mats, but if I can sell crowns to make a bunch of gold, then turn around and spend it at one of those small/new guild's traders to help them out, then that's what I'll do. If their prices are a bit higher than the big guilds, then that's fine with me also.
Remember, you're helping them to secure a trader for next week, and to help their guild expand and be able to purchase things their guild needs also. A little good deed can go a long way with this community, trust me. lots of amazing people here.

(I get it, prices are insane right now. This is more just a different way to look at things, since we can't control it.)

Eedat

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

What would happen if you ignored the PC economy altogether, @Eedat, and farmed the mats you need yourself for free?

I don't need to. I still have 15m cash on hand after going pumping out for gold gear as fast as I can get transmute crystals. This isn't a thread complaining that I can't afford to upgrade gear anymore. This thread is about this economy isn't sustainable and will cause a bunch of long term issues. This economy is actually very favorable for players like myself who already have large amounts of cash on hand. It's very easy to print money at this point if you already have money. Too easy which is a problem. Much faster than someone farming. Distribution of wealth becomes much worse which is unhealthy for the overall state of an MMO

Munkfist

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

I wasn't limiting it to supply and demand. Our willingness to pay the prices is as much a factor. If the prices aren't something you're willing to pay, I'd highly suggest farming whatever example you'd like to use. High prices are the prices of convenience. It will continue to rise because we will keep paying for it. It's very normal, and currency will remain relevant to the case. I argue this as both a buyer and seller, as well as a farmer that spends many, many hours filling my craftbag and stickerbook.

Eedat

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

I wasn't limiting it to supply and demand. Our willingness to pay the prices is as much a factor. If the prices aren't something you're willing to pay, I'd highly suggest farming whatever example you'd like to use. High prices are the prices of convenience. It will continue to rise because we will keep paying for it. It's very normal, and currency will remain relevant to the case. I argue this as both a buyer and seller, as well as a farmer that spends many, many hours filling my craftbag and stickerbook.

Again, this isn't an issue about being able to afford mats. This is an issue of this economy not being sustainable. It's a bubble. Prices can't just continually rise at rapid rates. This is a massive red flag in the real world for a good reason. It swings distribution of wealth out of whack along with other problems like killing off alternative playstyles. It's terrible for the overall health of an MMO community.

jaws343

At least on Xbox NA, overland set prices are in the dirt since the stickerbook. You can barely sell set pieces for half their value from prior to the stickerbook collection. Not complaining about it all, but there is almost zero inflation of gear prices and much of it won't even sell at 1K, even with people collecting, or more likely, because of people collecting and no longer needing perfect pieces.

I mean, prior to the stickerbook, a Mothers Sorrow Infused Inferno staff would have sold on a trader for 80K overnight. I have listed one at least 3 times now since the stickerbook, for 50K, 40K, and now 30K and it still will not sell.

Munkfist

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

I wasn't limiting it to supply and demand. Our willingness to pay the prices is as much a factor. If the prices aren't something you're willing to pay, I'd highly suggest farming whatever example you'd like to use. High prices are the prices of convenience. It will continue to rise because we will keep paying for it. It's very normal, and currency will remain relevant to the case. I argue this as both a buyer and seller, as well as a farmer that spends many, many hours filling my craftbag and stickerbook.

Again, this isn't an issue about being able to afford mats. This is an issue of this economy not being sustainable. It's a bubble. Prices can't just continually rise at rapid rates. This is a massive red flag in the real world for a good reason. It swings distribution of wealth out of whack along with other problems like killing off alternative playstyles. It's terrible for the overall health of an MMO community.

I reiterate, it's about the WILLINGNESS to pay, nothing to do with affordability. It becomes sustainable when others stop paying the convenience fee and farm it themselves, either supplementing the supply, or simply not buying into the higher prices by using their own stock. There's nothing pushing anyone into paying the prices outside of laziness and convenience. If I need something and I don't want to spend my time farming it, I'll pay the higher prices. If I don't want to pay the higher prices, I'll simply go farm the stock myself.

Prices can continue to climb so long as people are willing to pay. Even with gold sinks, there is a ton of gold available. A lot of us spent years just earning gold to have and to hoard. I have to argue that the economy is healthy, as it gives different options. The ones that don't have many options are those that don't want to pay the price of convenience, nor take the time to farm themselves, more or less wanting something for nothing.

idk

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

It does seem to be that Supply is being outstripped by demand. Nothing has been provided to suggest otherwise.

NettleCarrier

I'll say the same thing I say to my guild mates that are complaining about how high I've been getting away with selling things: The rate at which you can harvest and refine has NOT been changed. Everyone has the same opportunity to farm materials as they always have and if you so choose then you can refine and harvest your own stuff no matter what the prices are at.

Jeremy

Check out the prices of Heartwood if you want to see out of control prices. haha

If I particularly cared about making money now would definitely be the time. You could easily make a fortune selling that stuff during this festival.

ImmortalCX

Eedat wrote: »

There is currently a massive amount of hyperinflation happening on PC. It might be happening on other platforms too, but I can't confirm that personally. The prices on just about everything are inflating out of control. Normally things like mats have peaks and valleys as new content and events happen. That is not the case on PC. Prices are rapidly getting out of control. Up and up and up with no dips. 2 months ago the average price of a chromium plate was 120k. It's now 190k and rising daily. Other upgrade mats are experiencing the same. Alloys and wax selling for 12-13k. Motifs are going up. Overland sets are going up. Even crowns going for 400:1+ even with a crown sale going on.

This is a compound issue. First, the crackdown on bots has drastically reduced supply while sticker book has drastically increased demand. I am in no way saying the banhammer needs to be relaxed, but the supply has to be picked up somewhere. Maybe increasing drop rates from writs and refining. Second, the gold sinks are obviously failing. Even the trader bids flushing hundreds of millions if not billions down the toilet every week isn't enough. There needs to be more large gold sinks added. Luxury and gold vendor help. Maybe allow people to buy things at the Telvar stores and master crafter at inflated gold prices. I don't know tbh.

Something has to give though. This crazy hyperinflation isn't sustainable and the bubble needs to be popped.

The reason this is happening, is because the player base is going through a contraction. The casuals are less likely to stick around than hard-core players once the shine of the new expansion has worn off.

So you have all these serious players who are trying to furnish their houses ..and many of the casuals who were farming and selling have left the building.

What do you expect will happen when the workers stop working? You have to pay them more.

From my perspective, this is a good thing.

Ravensilver

ImmortalCX wrote: »

The reason this is happening, is because the player base is going through a contraction. The casuals are less likely to stick around than hard-core players once the shine of the new expansion has worn off.

So you have all these serious players who are trying to furnish their houses ..and many of the casuals who were farming and selling have left the building.

What do you expect will happen when the workers stop working? You have to pay them more.

From my perspective, this is a good thing.

So... where do you get your information from? Do you have any reliable source for your statements? Casuals have left the building? Really now? So all these hundreds of people that I see playing are all hardcore?

And why lay the blame on the casuals? On the contrary, I'd think it's the hardcore players pushing the economy. They want better gear, they want it now, they're willing to pay any price to get it.

And I, being a lowly casual, who spends her evening hours (many, many of them...) farming mats, gets to profit from it. I don't mind that at all...

TineaCruris

There are a number of people that are trying, whether consciously or not, to run up the prices of the key materials used by everyone so they can resell those items at a markup. There are people logging on and doing just this to see how many millions they can amass. It's like ESO stock market RP, except we all pay the price.

I don't see how it could possibly be a violation of the TOS, but is sure is a PITA for the rest of us who have to live with it. The only solution I can think of is to increase drop rates of these items when refining and doing writs. Maybe increase good drops when you put skill points into the daily person that gives them to you in that skill line too.

oh, they for sure could increase the number of gold mats that get returned when de-conning. That would be a huge help.

TineaCruris

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Munkfist wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Prices can't inflate too much because gold in game will run out cause of taxes. What's happening is probably aftermath of double gold drop event, and people spamming daily writs instead of doing content cause everything was so bugged.

But prices are inflating that much. That's the issue. The gold sinks are failing. Taxes don't remove gold from the game. It goes to the guild.

3.5% of the 7% tax goes to the guild, so there is a sink there, albeit not the biggest one. Regardless, it still comes to supply, demand, and the willingness to pay higher prices.

I'm not arguing against supply and demand. I actually pointed out that it's normal for prices to go up when there is increased demand. What I'm saying is that on top of increased demand, there is also hyperinflation happening. Prices have been going up at rapid speed for practically everything for 3 months straight. That is not normal and is a sign something isn't balanced correctly. I used mats as a single example but not the only one. This is a bubble forming that is going to pop and destabilize currency itself

What would happen if you ignored the PC economy altogether, @Eedat, and farmed the mats you need yourself for free?

Most people log in to play the game, not farm mats. The balance should be heavily favoring leaving us playing the game the vast majority of the time, and farming a minimal amount of time. (assuming the goal is to have fun playing the game)

VaranisArano

Technically, what we're looking at is demand-pull inflation. That is, the stickerbook along with the usual meta changes greatly increased the desire for improvement materials. Demand shot up, outstripping supply.

We see similar issues with housing mats everytime ZOS gives away a free giant house for an event or includes housing writs in an event.

This is a type of inflation that ZOS very rarely addresses, in large part because the demand and supply is driven by player behavior and that shifts from update to update. If you want an example of how ZOS did address a demand-pull inflation instance, look at ZOS' response to long-lasting high columbine prices: they added the Alchemy Tel Var satchels. For another example, the introduction of the Outfit system created a sky high demand for motifs. In response, ZOS added motif pages as rewards to the Anniversary Event and doubles daily rewards for specific regional motifs, which gives new players a chance to catch up on motifs by keeping prices lower for a time.

So ZOS tends to intervene only in cases of long-lasting high prices for common items or in areas where they think new players will be overly disadvantaged. Where prices naturally spike, fluctuate, then drop such as housing mats in response to the playerbase being awarded a big house to decorate or a BOE set like Syvarra's Scales getting buffed in the patch notes, ZOS doesn't act even in the case of obvious "bubbles."

thadjarvis

The price isn't too high if you still buy it.

BlueRaven

rumple9 wrote: »

Prices of gold mats have risen because of the new sticker book

Yup and overland sets will remain high as long as their are completion-ists.

JinMori

I think prices are probably gettting higher because less and less people are playing, meaning less materials on the market, but also less people, so not quite sure.

I guess it depends on the supply and demand.

So let's look at what could be the cause of inflation in a game, and in eso, it really hasn't changed a lot as far as i know.

Mobs create money, antiquites also, but not as much as some people think, so there really aren't a lot of sources for inflation.

There would be hyperinflation if zos suddenly decided to increase gold drop rates by like 1000 times.