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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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2 handed balance, and a short thing about ults.
MightyKingHoly
Soul Shriven
Ive Done the testing, a single equiped dagger with less damage and no enchanment, in adition with no passive and a 2 rarity lower killed a enemy at a speed similiar as a 2handed enchanted greatsword and with most passive to max and higher rarity.
2hand sword need a buff not nurf
there to many reason for it.
1. Its designed for lethalness it was made for this and its the fundamental idea the greatsword or bigger sword/ any weapon was created in the first place in human history thou not much people could wield them effectivly.
2. Its weighting proportion compared to other weaponsa greatswords/mases/axes are literly longer then the body of the user and has more weight then any other sword, maces and axes.
theri supose to have a heavier attack then other weapons in adition to more knockback or stager thanks to their mass E = mc2 being E the damage it inflicts Mc the Mass and 2 the potency of witch you use it, and in this case literly 2 because its a 2H sword lol.
3. In game it atacks more slower then other weapons, heavy is very slow and does literly the same damage aprox. as a normal hit, not only that you can easily get knockedback in the middle of doing a heavy attack and losing all damage having to redo it again.
4. In my esperience in pvp i got shreded by any other weapon and could never get a kill with the thing not even in a 1v1 battle.
5. All abilities(not ult) in it seem to be the same as in the literly feel the same all of them in damage wised and speed.
6. the passive is just not really benefitting at all and are not meant for the type of weapon in specificly talking about forecefll here.
7. one handed and shield punture seems more consistant and more worthwhile then the ult in 2handed, especially counting when it last more. especially considering that if you miss or get knocked over while casting it you literly do zero damagen in adition to its high cost you recive is zero you know nd its not like the animation teleports directly on top of you neither its close range, unlike any other weapon 2h are very sensible and weak when they dont hit, all you have to do is outmonuver or spam stuns on the slow atack animation it has or outbeat its speed doing a heavy damage fast, also take note that there spells the slow oponent movment, and skill that stun, you can also block it just incase. there no exuse for saying 2 h is op, and on top you can dodge at any of the 8 possible exact direction. any player who understand the mechanics of darksouls can easily beat a 2 handed sword.
8. heavy weapon 2 handed get less enchantments and for what ive seen set bonus then using dualwield, shield block more damage than a weapon block.
9. the reverse strike seem too much especific for just doing the same damange as stampeede even with the bonus its need more damage. i espceted that it will do some nice cleanups but it does not.
10. 2H weapons are meant to be high damage and unconsistant (by this the can lose all damage in 1 strike if interupde or dodge, especially when there high damage attacks), 1 handed weapos and specificly dual wield are meant to be more consistant and damage in a single shot. the problem in pvp is that 2h is risky a lot but getting a recompense by it taking the risk being easy to exploit and dodging the lethaless attack, 1h dualwiled are les predictable and more consistant even if you knock them down they stilll get damage done and ther heavy atack is more faster and less predictable then a 2h there not even meant to have a heavy attack in the first place just light attacks.
11. and more reasons im not gonna mention too much.
The Balance, i honestly leave abilities up to the devs and how the will manifest the animation however variety is the key here to each attack they should be diffrent in effectivness under circumstances not thesame, so all i do is aply a general rule.
i belive making weapon skill and damage skill in general based more on a certain percentage rather then a fix amount that is buffed is better this is meant (this is that the do a amount a percent damage of the curent damage, stat etc that the player has, this way its more understandabe when reading the description of the skill and relating it to your damage rather then having to shred your eyes ready info online, othe rplayer and watchning videos about damage calculation to understand, or barly understand how all this works.
i belve the ult of any should cover temporarly the weekness of said tree, or increse significaly the streght of the tree its based of, meaing that morph should be more in a specific way orientated to said then just having a bit of diffrence, in this case being able to acually transform the ultamite into somthing else that covers your weekneses rather the fortifies even more the streghth in that tree.
exapmle on solar prison the maim doesent really do somthing significant, meaninf that just increseing its duration wont actually make the ability a considrable option to morph it, even the game advises certain morph even thou said advise abilities are irelevalent to you playstyle on top of others.
now back on 2 handed i recomend only a few things, more damage obviusly 50% more damage as in, a 1h damage plus 50% but 35% slower attack animation and that heavy does a aditional 50% damage has a chance to stun / stagger, causes stamina (as suposed in any elderscroll game)
(in general i bealive you should set a 100% lets say on a specific weapon on all stats and then modifie that 100% to more / less varied on the diffent type of weapons [ using a weapon stats as a base to evaluate other type of weapon in specific advantages and disadvantages of each] this way you can polish more what a weapon is supose to do in a situation compare to other weapons.
now on passive, i will admit the folowing i thing swords need a better pasive on weapon mastery it could be a bit more atack speed like 10% on tier 1 and 20% to actual cover up the difrences between each type of two hand more efectivly (and based on logic) [ sword is thin and cut air and penetrates trew air easier then a axe witch is a bit more heavier and less thin and cause bleeding and a greatmace [maul] penetrating a percentage of amor).
now this being in remove the 50% damage aoe on forcefull and give a 5% knockback on any hit 2nd tier a 10% chnace (truly fitting for the name of forceful to b honest)
this makes greatweapons not the same as 1h, in other words actually a 2h instead of 1h technically, this covers the deficiency of having a longer heavy attack and a slower atack while not making the damage of a hevay attack useless in as it feel in game to be honest, the knockback chance fits properly with the actual mass diffrent of a great sword compare to the little mass of 1h and compensates more that its not clasified as 2 for a set or have a double enchantment potency.
as it is curently you might as well make players dual wiled greatswords now its esencially the same stats as a 1h sword, if you dont do a change people are about to say now that 2h sword is op because it can effect aoe, when people actually start being defeated because of it in pvp etc.
and to be honest, ive been getting greatsword drops since i started the game its literly been my very first weapon and almost the most constant one that drops, if i could say that a diffrence of 1h drops and 2 hand drops it would be each 1h drop i get 5 2 hand drops, dont know why, i literly notice the dagger quite recently witch i used a stop watch tell the diffrence and it was bare minimum if any between the speed i kill a oponent with a single dagger and a whopping skyscrapper sword thats big as me.
2hand sword need a buff not nurf
there to many reason for it.
1. Its designed for lethalness it was made for this and its the fundamental idea the greatsword or bigger sword/ any weapon was created in the first place in human history thou not much people could wield them effectivly.
2. Its weighting proportion compared to other weaponsa greatswords/mases/axes are literly longer then the body of the user and has more weight then any other sword, maces and axes.
theri supose to have a heavier attack then other weapons in adition to more knockback or stager thanks to their mass E = mc2 being E the damage it inflicts Mc the Mass and 2 the potency of witch you use it, and in this case literly 2 because its a 2H sword lol.
3. In game it atacks more slower then other weapons, heavy is very slow and does literly the same damage aprox. as a normal hit, not only that you can easily get knockedback in the middle of doing a heavy attack and losing all damage having to redo it again.
4. In my esperience in pvp i got shreded by any other weapon and could never get a kill with the thing not even in a 1v1 battle.
5. All abilities(not ult) in it seem to be the same as in the literly feel the same all of them in damage wised and speed.
6. the passive is just not really benefitting at all and are not meant for the type of weapon in specificly talking about forecefll here.
7. one handed and shield punture seems more consistant and more worthwhile then the ult in 2handed, especially counting when it last more. especially considering that if you miss or get knocked over while casting it you literly do zero damagen in adition to its high cost you recive is zero you know nd its not like the animation teleports directly on top of you neither its close range, unlike any other weapon 2h are very sensible and weak when they dont hit, all you have to do is outmonuver or spam stuns on the slow atack animation it has or outbeat its speed doing a heavy damage fast, also take note that there spells the slow oponent movment, and skill that stun, you can also block it just incase. there no exuse for saying 2 h is op, and on top you can dodge at any of the 8 possible exact direction. any player who understand the mechanics of darksouls can easily beat a 2 handed sword.
8. heavy weapon 2 handed get less enchantments and for what ive seen set bonus then using dualwield, shield block more damage than a weapon block.
9. the reverse strike seem too much especific for just doing the same damange as stampeede even with the bonus its need more damage. i espceted that it will do some nice cleanups but it does not.
10. 2H weapons are meant to be high damage and unconsistant (by this the can lose all damage in 1 strike if interupde or dodge, especially when there high damage attacks), 1 handed weapos and specificly dual wield are meant to be more consistant and damage in a single shot. the problem in pvp is that 2h is risky a lot but getting a recompense by it taking the risk being easy to exploit and dodging the lethaless attack, 1h dualwiled are les predictable and more consistant even if you knock them down they stilll get damage done and ther heavy atack is more faster and less predictable then a 2h there not even meant to have a heavy attack in the first place just light attacks.
11. and more reasons im not gonna mention too much.
The Balance, i honestly leave abilities up to the devs and how the will manifest the animation however variety is the key here to each attack they should be diffrent in effectivness under circumstances not thesame, so all i do is aply a general rule.
i belive making weapon skill and damage skill in general based more on a certain percentage rather then a fix amount that is buffed is better this is meant (this is that the do a amount a percent damage of the curent damage, stat etc that the player has, this way its more understandabe when reading the description of the skill and relating it to your damage rather then having to shred your eyes ready info online, othe rplayer and watchning videos about damage calculation to understand, or barly understand how all this works.
i belve the ult of any should cover temporarly the weekness of said tree, or increse significaly the streght of the tree its based of, meaing that morph should be more in a specific way orientated to said then just having a bit of diffrence, in this case being able to acually transform the ultamite into somthing else that covers your weekneses rather the fortifies even more the streghth in that tree.
exapmle on solar prison the maim doesent really do somthing significant, meaninf that just increseing its duration wont actually make the ability a considrable option to morph it, even the game advises certain morph even thou said advise abilities are irelevalent to you playstyle on top of others.
now back on 2 handed i recomend only a few things, more damage obviusly 50% more damage as in, a 1h damage plus 50% but 35% slower attack animation and that heavy does a aditional 50% damage has a chance to stun / stagger, causes stamina (as suposed in any elderscroll game)
(in general i bealive you should set a 100% lets say on a specific weapon on all stats and then modifie that 100% to more / less varied on the diffent type of weapons [ using a weapon stats as a base to evaluate other type of weapon in specific advantages and disadvantages of each] this way you can polish more what a weapon is supose to do in a situation compare to other weapons.
now on passive, i will admit the folowing i thing swords need a better pasive on weapon mastery it could be a bit more atack speed like 10% on tier 1 and 20% to actual cover up the difrences between each type of two hand more efectivly (and based on logic) [ sword is thin and cut air and penetrates trew air easier then a axe witch is a bit more heavier and less thin and cause bleeding and a greatmace [maul] penetrating a percentage of amor).
now this being in remove the 50% damage aoe on forcefull and give a 5% knockback on any hit 2nd tier a 10% chnace (truly fitting for the name of forceful to b honest)
this makes greatweapons not the same as 1h, in other words actually a 2h instead of 1h technically, this covers the deficiency of having a longer heavy attack and a slower atack while not making the damage of a hevay attack useless in as it feel in game to be honest, the knockback chance fits properly with the actual mass diffrent of a great sword compare to the little mass of 1h and compensates more that its not clasified as 2 for a set or have a double enchantment potency.
as it is curently you might as well make players dual wiled greatswords now its esencially the same stats as a 1h sword, if you dont do a change people are about to say now that 2h sword is op because it can effect aoe, when people actually start being defeated because of it in pvp etc.
and to be honest, ive been getting greatsword drops since i started the game its literly been my very first weapon and almost the most constant one that drops, if i could say that a diffrence of 1h drops and 2 hand drops it would be each 1h drop i get 5 2 hand drops, dont know why, i literly notice the dagger quite recently witch i used a stop watch tell the diffrence and it was bare minimum if any between the speed i kill a oponent with a single dagger and a whopping skyscrapper sword thats big as me.
0
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Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭2 handed is already the best stam melee weapon in the game.
Dual wield actually needs something like rally and more cc.
And better execute.
And better ult.
And a better gapcloser.Edited by Ryuvain on December 16, 2020 4:37AMThat one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.0 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭Some general thoughts on the comments regarding 2H:
Right or wrong, the concept of 2H weapons being "heavier" and attacking slower and dealing more damage is not really a thing in ESO. It's not like darksouls where individual weapons have different swing and recovery times and hence differing damage.
I assume that this is because the game was designed around the 1sec global cooldown for light attacks and skills, with the intent that everyone plays by weaving a light attack and skill every global cooldown, and only breaking from that to heavy attack if resources are needed.
As a result, we have the following features in the game:
1) all light attacks take the same time regardless of weapon (theoretically instant, regardless of how the animation looks), and hence will do the same damage with the same stats (except ranged weapons have a slight decrease due to the ranged advantage)
2) similarly, heavy attacks actually have quite similar cast times. I'm not sure if it is still current, but https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/390244/heavy-attack-resources-and-damage-scaling-a-100-millisecond-breakdown-all-weapons shows the timing breakdown (or at least what it was at that time). 2H is only slightly longer than dual wield, but does do slightly more damage.
3) skills are generally instant, regardless of weapon type. Thus, it is just as easy, or difficult, to dodge an attack from sword and shield, or dual wield, or 2 handed. And because they all are subject to the global cool down and hence will be used at the same rate, they will be designed to do pretty much the same damage (with the same stats). The exception is when a skill has a cast time, like uppercut and its morphs, or a channel, like rapid strikes and its morphs. In these cases the skill is compensated by doing more damage vs an instant cast skill, as they either lock you into an animation or might be more easily avoided.
4) Generally speaking, there can be no skills that change attack speed, as this is pointless without somehow modifying the 1 sec global cooldown, which cannot be bypassed. The one exception to this I am aware of is werewolves which can increase their light attack speed, but that is because they don't necessarily follow the general convention weaving LA>skill that everyone else does.
Overall, it sounds like what you are after is for the "feel" of 2H weapons to be more distinguishable from other weapons, like they are in other games like dark souls. Which is completely understandable. But I guess unfortunately for that it is simply the fact that ESO is not designed like that, and at this point, it is unlikely it will change to be so.
Additionally regarding enchants and traits - these are double the strength on an equivalent 2H weapon vs a one handed weapon, so that is how they are balanced out. Similarly 2H weapons also count for two set pieces.
Edited by ExistingRug61 on December 16, 2020 5:04AM1