Detailed request: ZOS PLEASE change dungeon set weapon RNG

BronzebeakMoa

TLDR: The drop rates on individual weapon types of dungeon sets are insanely low for how accessible the sets are overall. Farming for these weapons can be a horrible experience, and something should be considered to change this. (This is a detailed expansion on an earlier post made to this forum.)

I love the sets system in ESO, and I love theory crafting and testing different sets (particularly for pvp).

Between theory crafting and testing comes FARMING. In general, I love the MMO grind, and I take pride in getting a rare drop after a lot of work. HOWEVER ... speaking as someone who has undertaken multiple grinds for specific weapon pieces in dungeons, I believe the loot system for dungeon set weapons need to be changed (and I have suggestions).

-- THE NUMBERS --

First, lets look at how insane the math is on this. Normally there are AT LEAST 45 individual items on the loot table for a final boss in dungeons (jewelry+weapons for three sets), and a dungeon group only sees 4 drops per run.

(Already, this should seem nuts compared to other MMOs where although some drop chances might be as rare, a 1/45 drop rate is usually reserved for unique items that are meant to be extremely rare, whereas in ESO, dungeon sets are generally considered to be pretty accessible.)

Let's also consider that, anecdotally, it SEEMS to be the case that jewelry drops more frequently than weapons (the exact numbers are not publicly known, but I'm sure others will agree). AND let's consider that some final bosses include unique drops in their loot tables (and again, these seem to drop more frequently than other pieces).

This leaves us with what I consider to be an absurdly low chance for a group of 4 to see a specific weapon. I have personally engaged in farms in dungeons that have a unique drop on a final boss for a specific weapon, and it has taken me upwards of 100 runs to even see the desired piece. On the other hand, I've also been very lucky and gotten it quickly.

This variance is bad for the game. It doesn't reflect a consistent vision for how rare these items should be (because getting ANY destro staff, for example, is relatively easy, but a SPECIFIC one is totally random) ... It condemns players with a desire to optimize builds around weapon types to a potentially agonizing farm, creating horror stories around desirable items like the BSW inferno or various support set lightning staffs and shields etc.

I hope players and ZOS can agree that the RNG of weapon drops is out of line with reasonable expectations for the rarity of these items and that something should be done to change this.

-- SUGGESTIONS --

We need a "backstop" to prevent the grind from going on forever.

Idea 1) Completing a dungeon grants a currency (like undaunted keys, but unique to each dungeon) These tokens would be used to unlock an item on the sticker book.
Perhaps you'd receive 1 token for normal, 2 for vet, maybe 3 for vet HM. Perhaps the cost is very high (50+). Perhaps using them unlocks a random locked set piece rather than a specific one (to "finish" the sticker book when the farm looks bleak). The a lot is possible in the details, but the concept is simple.

Idea 2) Add a unique consumable (like the War Torte) that increases the chance of looting an item that you don't yet have unlocked (like Pickled Fishbowl increases fishing chances).
Maybe the highest tier of this consumable makes it guaranteed that you get a locked set piece from a drop. These could be expensive and the durations short enough such that you wouldn't want to use them unless you've already spent a lot of time grinding with no success.

Idea 3) Add a wildcard system, perhaps something like "weapon fragments" as a common drop on dungeon loot tables. Example: "Weapon Fragment of Sheer Venom" can drop from anything in Imperial City Prison. Some number of these fragments could be combined at a transmute station for some number of transmutes to unlock a specific weapon. (There are a ton of ways to make a wildcard system. Maybe weapon drops have a chance of being wildcards themselves, maybe master chests have a high chance of dropping wildcards... something.)

Side note: Although the key fragment system from IC does add additional chances for drops, the system amounts to essentially a master chest of loot per 150 fragments, and the loot table of chests is EVEN MORE NUTS considering that it includes EVERY possible drop from the dungeon.

ZOS PLEASE do something to change how this system currently works. You've designed a set system that makes dungeon sets pretty accessible, and you've designed a combat system that allows for interesting tradeoffs based on what weapon types you choose. But the dungeon set weapon drop RNG is broken and needs some help.

-- FAQ --

Why do I only care about dungeon sets? Overland drops are tradable which allows the market to assist. Raid groups see 12 drops from a final boss instead of 4. I'd be pleased to see these suggestions applied to other content types, but dungeon sets deserve a spotlight because the odds are simply absurd for 4 chances at the drop you need.

Why not suggest adding weapons to the loot of all dungeon bosses? It's hard enough to reasonably farm body pieces of these sets. Diluting already packed tables would just creates more problems. Perhaps wildcards should apply to all pieces.

What about CHESTS? Chests are terrible. I always try to find them when I'm farming a set, but the loot table of chests includes EVERY possible drop from the dungeon, and the chance at other nonsense like maps, AND the chance at literally nothing. (Recently while looking for a 1hand axe, I opened a simple to find a 1h mace and cried a bit.) Also, nobody knows about the treasure hunter passive from CP, and this makes it even more frustrating to farm with random groups (if you can even get them to open chests you find in the first place...)

THANK YOU FOR READING

HowellQagan

I vote for the currency option.

OfTheEight

I do agree with the ideal that the drop rate for weapons is too low, but I will this once. Trust ZoS to fix this as unknown to us I know they are probably looking to change this due to the new Set Collections feature.

BronzebeakMoa

OfTheEight wrote: »

I do agree with the ideal that the drop rate for weapons is too low, but I will this once. Trust ZoS to fix this as unknown to us I know they are probably looking to change this due to the new Set Collections feature.

I tend to think that the release of set collections means they've patted themselves on the back and moved on to other things.

To be clear, the sticker book is an amazing feature that helps with a lot of problems -- but it does nothing to address the difficulty of getting the items in the first place, and I don't think this particular problem is on their radar. Especially considering this has been how the game has worked for such a long time.

Iron_Blurr

I like the idea of set piece fragments being collected as you deconstruct pieces of the same set. Maybe after 50-100 of them you can add a random missing piece to your collections.

An alternative bandaid fix could be to do something like increasing the amount of chests in dungeons and altering the chest loot tables. You could also make hard modes drop double the loot for dungeon bosses.

I prefer the first idea better but if a lazy solution must be implemented i think double drops for hard modes and maybe 5 chests per dungeon could be a simple bandaid fix. Very easy to implement and would improve quality of life for everyone trying to farm for sets to add to their collections.

redspecter23

The stickerbook highlights this issue that has been there for some time. Weapons typically only drop off of the final boss of dungeons (and occasionally chests and named drops on other bosses). Since about half of any collection is weapons, this leaves you needing these more than other pieces.

It would be nice to have some way to eventually end the grind here, especially with areas like Maelstrom arena having over 70 unique set weapons to acquire at a rate of 1 weapon per run (about 30 minutes if you're fast). That's a bare minimum of 35 hours in Maelstrom to get the weapons and I guarantee you that you will be in there much longer, possibly in the hundreds of hours of gametime. I can't imagine the struggle when you get down to only needing a few weapons and every run is 1:35 chance of even getting something you still need.

Faiza

HowellQagan wrote: »

I vote for the currency option.

They did this in WoW and everyone hates it.

LadyLethalla

To be realistic, they want you to keep farming, because that way you have to keep playing longer and that means there's more chance of you spending money.
The easier it becomes to complete the stickerbook, the more likely you'll move on to another game.
Maybe I'm just too cynical...

zvavi

The number of runs for completing all dungeon's weapons is:
39/68 chance for 1st weapon drop (50% chance jewelry)
38/68 for second weapon drop
....
....
....
1/68 chance for last weapon drop.

Which means rng wise to calculate amount of runs you will need you will have to add 68/39 + 68/38 + .... + 68/1, which is (using Wolfram alpha) 289 runs per dungeon. I think if you include friends that might have double drops, and 2 chests, you will get around 100 runs per dungeon, which is not that bad.

But double weapons on HM should totally be a thing.