bruh why tho

Crow_IX

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

To play devil's advocate, on console most players taking advantage of animation cancelling are using programmable controllers. There isn't any skill in that.

I'm honestly not sure how true that is. ani canceling isnt hard by any means, but it is possible to add macros, which are bannable. you cant discredit good players just cause you or others cant do it as well. just be cautious when accusing and not so quick to judge.

Jeremy

Crow_IX wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts that proc you to death in a microsecond? Because I doubt they do.

i mean when ever i ask people why they use proc sets they say "its in the game" or some half assed answer like they know its cheesy but its over performing and thats all it takes. do they like it? thats not really it, i think they dont care, they will use what ever is performing the best, lack of build diversity is another huge issue the current meta and recent changes to the game have brought on. i am pretty sure casuals dont care for the set but like the damage, they like the numbers and how the sets perform.

I consider myself a casual player and I loath and despise all these cheesy proc sets and the over-the-top offense. It's nearly ruined PvP for me. Luckily I've been able to find a niche build that can actually stay alive and be decently effective in certain types of battlegrounds. Otherwise I would have already quit this game's ______ PvP. So I'm basically hanging on by a thread.

That's also the number one complaint I hear from casual players I know who hate this game's PvP. It's how they just get melted and are practically incinerated as if the sun imploded into a black hole and sucked you inside. It's literally just a bunch of people darting around like chickens with their heads cuts off unleashing ridiculous burst damage then hiding behind rocks and healing. It feels more like a game of paintball on crack than any kind of hack and slash medieval combat. So I just really doubt casuals like this crapfest.

I would imagine the people who are more likely to enjoy this kind of PvP are coordinated PvP-focused players who have teams and synchronize their attacks to obliterate other players. In other words: the exact opposite of casual players. So if you're right and they actually are trying to appeal to casual players then I would contend they are doing a terrible job. But who knows: maybe I and others I know are the exception and most casuals do actually like this. If there are any casual players who do prefer this kind of PvP maybe they'll speak up in this thread and let themselves be known. Because I'm actually curious now.

warabi

Most things would be solved if they'd just separate pvp and pve completely. Why MMO devs don't do this is bizarre and foolish to me.

OlumoGarbag

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

To play devil's advocate, on console most players taking advantage of animation cancelling are using programmable controllers. There isn't any skill in that.

Lul thats really hard to believe. Macros give you 0 advantage over actually learning how to blockcancle. Since you cant interrupt it. It would only be usefull for gank combos if there were any complicated ones left.

"Most" where would you get that information from? Someone was better then you at pvp so hes a hacking macrosuser?

OneForSorrow

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

I am going to get completely wrecked for this but animation cancelling, specifically the "weave" version that is meta for all dps specs, should go the way of the dodo.

Animation cancelling should exist as a way of getting us out of harms way, yes, but not as a dps increase....

....At least, not in the game in its current form. I know it's not a bug but the game was never made with animation cancelling in mind. And boy howdy does a shoddy connection interfere with your ability to do it well. Also the servers interfere with your ability to do it well.

Now if they ever do a ESO II with better server structure and actually build cancelling into the game properly I'd actually be for that. I'm not against cancelling on principle.

All of that said gear sets that provide passive procs is probably not the most awesome way to even out dps between the vets and the new, no. There is nothing interesting about that.

Wolfpaw

Crow_IX wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

to promote growth, participation, & revenue

does that really work though? cause a lot of vets got pushed away from the game and almost everything is cosmetic.

Idk.

A lot of vets are still here, & many new players. PS4 Is always busy.

Simplify combat (pve & pvp) so not to push new, & average/casual players away.

Change things like combat, skills, cd's, etc...game side stuff for next gen, longevity, stability, & performance.

& we haven't even got to the CP update yet.

2c

on pc we lost players like moontan, akean, darkshadey, mrpig. many non streaming but very talented players as well.

the combat was already simple it was just different. and people dont like that. eso hasnt gained more people. its lost and or stayed still in player base. dont fix something thats not broken because all they did was simplify to help new players feel like they arent out matched when they are and should be because theyre new, and vets and competitive players give up because this lack luster combat.

thats expected, but what is NOT okay is deleting class identity and pushing for a meta where sets do the work.

cp should have stayed around 600, cp is one of the biggest balancing issues with the game, if proc sets weren't so powerful right now no cp would feel more playable.

(keep in mind, most of my point of view is strictly pvp, since my pve experience is solo a dungeon cause i need a set and thats it.)

I'm not saying I'm happy about changes or think performance will get better, just what I understand is ZOS intentions.

I don't care all that much about combat changes, I will adapt & continue playing. Performance is what I care about in the pvp game.

ESO is it, til a better mmo comes around. Big hopes for the new LOTR in a couple years.

Artanisul

OneForSorrow wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

I am going to get completely wrecked for this but animation cancelling, specifically the "weave" version that is meta for all dps specs, should go the way of the dodo.

Animation cancelling should exist as a way of getting us out of harms way, yes, but not as a dps increase....

....At least, not in the game in its current form. I know it's not a bug but the game was never made with animation cancelling in mind. And boy howdy does a shoddy connection interfere with your ability to do it well. Also the servers interfere with your ability to do it well.

Now if they ever do a ESO II with better server structure and actually build cancelling into the game properly I'd actually be for that. I'm not against cancelling on principle.

All of that said gear sets that provide passive procs is probably not the most awesome way to even out dps between the vets and the new, no. There is nothing interesting about that.

I can guarantee if they made an ESO 2, and could have active combat whthout it, they would get rid of Ani cancel. Cancelling animations does exactly that...cancels what they built into the game. They paid money for characters to move a certain way while doing X and players routinely bug it out....there is no way that is planned....

YandereGirlfriend

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

To play devil's advocate, on console most players taking advantage of animation cancelling are using programmable controllers. There isn't any skill in that.

Aren't macros against TOS and bannable?

Not that I think that stops anyone from using them, of course.

JTD

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

To play devil's advocate, on console most players taking advantage of animation cancelling are using programmable controllers. There isn't any skill in that.

False assumption without proof. With a bit of practice and a good sense of the flow ans knowledge of what you can and cannot animation cancel/block cancel everybody can eventually master this.

Thevampirenight

The thing of it is what they could do is disable many of these types of sets in pvp.

Maybe some bonuses are kept and allowed for pvp but not any of the what people consider cheese and then everyone could be more happier.

YandereGirlfriend

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

Crow_IX

Jeremy wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts that proc you to death in a microsecond? Because I doubt they do.

i mean when ever i ask people why they use proc sets they say "its in the game" or some half assed answer like they know its cheesy but its over performing and thats all it takes. do they like it? thats not really it, i think they dont care, they will use what ever is performing the best, lack of build diversity is another huge issue the current meta and recent changes to the game have brought on. i am pretty sure casuals dont care for the set but like the damage, they like the numbers and how the sets perform.

I consider myself a casual player and I loath and despise all these cheesy proc sets and the over-the-top offense. It's nearly ruined PvP for me. Luckily I've been able to find a niche build that can actually stay alive and be decently effective in certain types of battlegrounds. Otherwise I would have already quit this game's ______ PvP. So I'm basically hanging on by a thread.

That's also the number one complaint I hear from casual players I know who hate this game's PvP. It's how they just get melted and are practically incinerated as if the sun imploded into a black hole and sucked you inside. It's literally just a bunch of people darting around like chickens with their heads cuts off unleashing ridiculous burst damage then hiding behind rocks and healing. It feels more like a game of paintball on crack than any kind of hack and slash medieval combat. So I just really doubt casuals like this crapfest.

I would imagine the people who are more likely to enjoy this kind of PvP are coordinated PvP-focused players who have teams and synchronize their attacks to obliterate other players. In other words: the exact opposite of casual players. So if you're right and they actually are trying to appeal to casual players then I would contend they are doing a terrible job. But who knows: maybe I and others I know are the exception and most casuals do actually like this. If there are any casual players who do prefer this kind of PvP maybe they'll speak up in this thread and let themselves be known. Because I'm actually curious now.

Yeah for sure, they're not for everyone and its always nice to see that there are moral players in the game, casual or not. Its just from my experience, most players just hop on the proc meta cause of how strong it it.

I think that's kind of.... how mmos go... ya know? Like you start from scratch, you don't know mechanics or skills or builds or sets or even how to distribute attribute points right. There is a whole learning process and those who WANT to be good will spend time learning. But few wanna put in that time and effort. And then yeah, you're right. The current state of the game does feel nothing like hack and slash medieval combat. We used to be able to be very brawly but since defensive nerfs its getting harder for solo play

Which, since it is getting harder for solo play is thus encouraging group play. Which then results in who has more numbers or who ulti dumps the best. Very very much not fun. But yeah groups and set/mechanical exploit abuse is currently the name of the game.

Crow_IX

warabi wrote: »

Most things would be solved if they'd just separate pvp and pve completely. Why MMO devs don't do this is bizarre and foolish to me.

i kind of agree. a year ago the game felt fine but things are different now.

Crow_IX

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

Crow_IX

OneForSorrow wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

I am going to get completely wrecked for this but animation cancelling, specifically the "weave" version that is meta for all dps specs, should go the way of the dodo.

Animation cancelling should exist as a way of getting us out of harms way, yes, but not as a dps increase....

....At least, not in the game in its current form. I know it's not a bug but the game was never made with animation cancelling in mind. And boy howdy does a shoddy connection interfere with your ability to do it well. Also the servers interfere with your ability to do it well.

Now if they ever do a ESO II with better server structure and actually build cancelling into the game properly I'd actually be for that. I'm not against cancelling on principle.

All of that said gear sets that provide passive procs is probably not the most awesome way to even out dps between the vets and the new, no. There is nothing interesting about that.

at least we agree on the last part. as for animation canceling, i appreciate it for its highest skill ceiling. it adds different levels of skill tiers. low, low med, med, med high, high. that kind of stuff. i always compare it to tech skill in super smash bros melee.

Recapitated

Crow_IX wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

People have come up with all sorts of overall solutions.
- Tune procs down, allow them to crit again, making them more usable in pvp
- make proc sets cause each other to go on a cooldown of a few seconds, so you have to engage for a few seconds to unload them on someone
- make them scale off offensive stats to discourage high health high sustain builds
- convert them to stat buffs, e.g. Sheer Venom could add 20% damage to your executes and up to 80% based on missing health. Instead of doing all the work for you that would create conditions you can exploit with a good combo.

Jeremy

Recapitated wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

People have come up with all sorts of overall solutions.
- Tune procs down, allow them to crit again, making them more usable in pvp
- make proc sets cause each other to go on a cooldown of a few seconds, so you have to engage for a few seconds to unload them on someone
- make them scale off offensive stats to discourage high health high sustain builds
- convert them to stat buffs, e.g. Sheer Venom could add 20% damage to your executes and up to 80% based on missing health. Instead of doing all the work for you that would create conditions you can exploit with a good combo.

I don't think proc sets are the problem specifically. We've had proc sets before and PvP wasn't like this. The game is just balanced in favor of offense currently. They reduced healing and defenses then buffed damage - so it was easy to see this coming from a mile away. And many of us did.

So it's literally useless to try and defend yourself right now by using conventional methods. So I don't even bother anymore. You're way better off just running or hiding or surrounding yourself in pets and summons. Anyone who tries to stand and fight hoping their resistances or health/healing are going to keep them going will be obliterated. This game plays more like a shooter where it's more about running and jumping into cover, etc. It's nothing like medieval combat and honestly looks kind of ridiculous with people dashing around and leaping behind cover like commandos in plate mail and wizard robes. Ninja Gandalfs online. haha

Recapitated

Jeremy wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

People have come up with all sorts of overall solutions.
- Tune procs down, allow them to crit again, making them more usable in pvp
- make proc sets cause each other to go on a cooldown of a few seconds, so you have to engage for a few seconds to unload them on someone
- make them scale off offensive stats to discourage high health high sustain builds
- convert them to stat buffs, e.g. Sheer Venom could add 20% damage to your executes and up to 80% based on missing health. Instead of doing all the work for you that would create conditions you can exploit with a good combo.

I don't think proc sets are the problem specifically. We've had proc sets before and PvP wasn't like this. The game is just balanced in favor of offense currently. They reduced healing and defenses then buffed damage - so it was easy to see this coming from a mile away. And many of us did.

Any meta is going to result from a perfect storm of factors but proc sets were buffed this patch (more damage and they took the "random" out of "probability of random occurence"), that's why they're so common. Previously they didn't do enough damage aside from a few exceptions and they weren't predictable enough to make them part and parcel of a combo.

You can tune them back down to what they were doing before but IMO they have the potential to add a lot of flavour to pvp combat beyond what your class has access to.

Jeremy

Recapitated wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

People have come up with all sorts of overall solutions.
- Tune procs down, allow them to crit again, making them more usable in pvp
- make proc sets cause each other to go on a cooldown of a few seconds, so you have to engage for a few seconds to unload them on someone
- make them scale off offensive stats to discourage high health high sustain builds
- convert them to stat buffs, e.g. Sheer Venom could add 20% damage to your executes and up to 80% based on missing health. Instead of doing all the work for you that would create conditions you can exploit with a good combo.

I don't think proc sets are the problem specifically. We've had proc sets before and PvP wasn't like this. The game is just balanced in favor of offense currently. They reduced healing and defenses then buffed damage - so it was easy to see this coming from a mile away. And many of us did.

Any meta is going to result from a perfect storm of factors but proc sets were buffed this patch (more damage and they took the "random" out of "probability of random occurence"), that's why they're so common. Previously they didn't do enough damage aside from a few exceptions and they weren't predictable enough to make them part and parcel of a combo.

You can tune them back down to what they were doing before but IMO they have the potential to add a lot of flavour to pvp combat beyond what your class has access to.

Yeah if they could balance it correctly I think they would be ok. The problem is they nerfed healing, shields and defenses and further buffed damage through procs and created the "perfect storm" you are talking about.

Semfim

The salt due to cancelling mechanics changes is real... it's enough to salt a full cow and cook it!

Sorry, but although late, ZOS understood that shenenigans like theose force stuff that is not stated or intended as a mandatory mechanic. All your talk of floors and ceilings sums up to "i don't have that special trick anymore". Half this thread is not about proc sets, its about not enjoying something when the ground is more even.

I'm not saying we have perfect PvP, just the lag (EU here) is enough to drop the game enterely, but gear/abilities wise they have tried to make the ground more even, and that is where the supposed "skill" should shine.

Faylestar

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts ... ?

Yes.

But I dont care, at all, about PvP.

MMO PvP is almost always garbage if the game isnt designed around it, because MMO PC's are designed around killing and not being killed by things with tens of thousands to hundreds of millions more HP and significantly higher damage output. If your mechanics arent basically making PvP a different game, its either a BOOPfest, or youre playing until someone sneezes or coughs slightly more often and your war of who gets more incredibly tiny advantages can finally end.

Jeremy

Faylestar wrote: »

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts ... ?

Yes.

But I dont care, at all, about PvP.

MMO PvP is almost always garbage if the game isnt designed around it, because MMO PC's are designed around killing and not being killed by things with tens of thousands to hundreds of millions more HP and significantly higher damage output. If your mechanics arent basically making PvP a different game, its either a BOOPfest, or youre playing until someone sneezes or coughs slightly more often and your war of who gets more incredibly tiny advantages can finally end.

Where do you get that from?

Because I have yet to see a single casual player who says they do.

EmEm_Oh

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

It's easier to control the sets in one simple tweak (i.e., nerf or buff), than rely on everyone using their skills differently, and thus, putting more strain on the outdated and neanderthalic systems.

The paradigm is changing from the back-end is reacting to the input of the individual user to the user is dependent on the set procing to deliver their MOD (method of delivery), i.e., heal/dmg/shield.

Multiple sets procing still produce less strain on the servers because it's predictable (versus non-predictable behavior of so many different players using a variety of skills and sets).

Yeah, I know, kinda defeats the purpose of an mmo, doesn't it.

So, basically, your sets are determining how you play versus how you determine how you play.

Crow_IX

Semfim wrote: »

The salt due to cancelling mechanics changes is real... it's enough to salt a full cow and cook it!

Sorry, but although late, ZOS understood that shenenigans like theose force stuff that is not stated or intended as a mandatory mechanic. All your talk of floors and ceilings sums up to "i don't have that special trick anymore". Half this thread is not about proc sets, its about not enjoying something when the ground is more even.

I'm not saying we have perfect PvP, just the lag (EU here) is enough to drop the game enterely, but gear/abilities wise they have tried to make the ground more even, and that is where the supposed "skill" should shine.

The "salt" about this "trick" you speak of is merely bringing the cause of skill gap to light. You may see it as a trick but it was simply a power you were not fit to wield. Which if I am being honest was not a very difficult skill. Timing skills into a block into a light attack and repeating by no means was difficult and it had drawbacks as your stamina would drain quicker if hit when blocking. But let me bring to your attention a skill gap mechanic that was by all means intended by the devs, decision making. What skills do I use in certain situations. Decision making has become less important with the addition and buffing of all these proc sets, not to say that you don't need to make important decisions at all, just that there is much more lenience. And THAT my friend, is what the thread is about. Having a good balance of competitive skill and casual fun. You really think having a "grounded game" by allowing players to abuse free damage proc sets is good? What fun is there in a game where it plays itself for you?

The game had issues when fun and skill based mechanics were still here too. The game will never be perfect, and gear should be about diversity not about reliability. Build for diverse and unique ways to play the game, being unique was a great balance for the game as players would have to think of how to counter it. Now everyone relies on proc sets, malacath, stuhns or eternal vigor, engine guardian or balorgh's. You may think the game is "grounded" now but its not, people are being carried by proc sets and those who don't want to or refuse to use them are left struggling. Where is the "skill" in letting a proc set do the damage for you procing of a simple landing attack?

There is a flaw in a skill based system because those who can't perform technical mechanics often just give up and complain about them which then turns into devs trying to figure out how to balance the system. The people who appreciated skillbased mechanics were more technical than others and were able to fight very well and often times made names for themselves. But now those higher level players are far in few. Most people who prefer this style of play have all but given up. We had a solid 5 years of interesting updates and combat changes and maybe ESO is just finally done. I personally hope not cause there was no other game like ESO, it was fun and unique and challenging. Now it's so bland and empty. Maybe it's time I quit too.

I appreciate your opinion cause it shows two different sides of the spectrum. Maybe there would one day be a middle ground.

Crow_IX

Recapitated wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You could also just make a special rule for Battle Spirit that proc set damage is nerfed 75% rather than the usual 50%.

You could then adjust that rule as necessary to make room for stronger PvE proc sets without also blowing up PvP balance.

this is a fair and smart idea. that could at least be tested

People have come up with all sorts of overall solutions.
- Tune procs down, allow them to crit again, making them more usable in pvp
- make proc sets cause each other to go on a cooldown of a few seconds, so you have to engage for a few seconds to unload them on someone
- make them scale off offensive stats to discourage high health high sustain builds
- convert them to stat buffs, e.g. Sheer Venom could add 20% damage to your executes and up to 80% based on missing health. Instead of doing all the work for you that would create conditions you can exploit with a good combo.

I like the idea of them scaling differently, that would cause people to build specific to the sets and leave an opening for weakness such as dot dmg, sustain or resistances. As you've stated. Tuning them down but letting them crit may be a good solution but I feel like that would only make a loss in that fight feel like luck, and crit builds would be very nasty.

Personally if you're going to have a high damage proc set I believe the proc conditions should be held at a high standard. Procing off of direct damage, or a crit or an execute is by no means difficult and leaves room for 100% up time.

Either way I think its important to look into reworking proc sets. Hopefully they do soon cause this has lasted longer than the original procalypes

barney2525

Crow_IX wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Personally I think it would have been better to rebalance mobs rather than sets (when making changes to the game). For example if a set is performing not too great in PvP but over performing in PvE, just retune the mobs or at least just the boss, no need to destroy the set completely. As for PvP set balancing, I'm unsure but proc sets are a major issue and should not be in the state they are in currently (idk how they perform in PvE cause I never PvE).

I dunno

And I know there are veteran players out there who are off the deep end and want every trash mob to be a death challenge - For Them. Even though the purpose of the trash mob is to add flavor to the area you are in. They should be a minor obstacle on the way to the Real threat.

But making the mobs tougher in response to a SET being OP in PvE means now, just to participate in PvE, the New player and the Casual Player MUST be using Sets ... or they Die ... A Lot.

Somehow I don't think that is what the devs want. You want to adjust and balance the Sets, not the World. You don't tell players - ' You will be able to PvE fine AFTER you manage to obtain the appropriate sets. Until then, you are just scrugeeeed.'

IMHO

idk

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Item storage problems should be solved with changes to item storage, not combat mechanics. Just add an armoury chest similar to the craft bag if that's the concern.

With server performance being what it is Zos will not add an armory. It is why we got this stickerbook system they just added.

We know they will not add an armory because they already said they would not add a furniture bag and that would help crown sales. Since some players are bursting at the seams with furniture they are less willing to buy crown store furnishings. Zos noticed that there are a lot more unique items of furniture (just as there are a lot more of unique items in armor and weapons, and that increase the server load.

Recapitated

idk wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Item storage problems should be solved with changes to item storage, not combat mechanics. Just add an armoury chest similar to the craft bag if that's the concern.

With server performance being what it is Zos will not add an armory. It is why we got this stickerbook system they just added.

We know they will not add an armory because they already said they would not add a furniture bag and that would help crown sales. Since some players are bursting at the seams with furniture they are less willing to buy crown store furnishings. Zos noticed that there are a lot more unique items of furniture (just as there are a lot more of unique items in armor and weapons, and that increase the server load.

Good to know. Still not important enough to sacrifice combat balance.

OneForSorrow

Crow_IX wrote: »

OneForSorrow wrote: »

--snip.

at least we agree on the last part. as for animation canceling, i appreciate it for its highest skill ceiling. it adds different levels of skill tiers. low, low med, med, med high, high. that kind of stuff. i always compare it to tech skill in super smash bros melee.

I appreciate the skill ceiling involved in cancelling and weaving in a perfect world. My issue, as I said, isn't with the idea of it. My issue is that the game doesn't actually support it. There are a looot of people who actually time out their weaves well but the server doesn't recognize that they've pushed a button when they did.

We need more stable servers if they want to push weaving as meta. I'm sure the PvP crowd would benefit from that too.

Crow_IX

OneForSorrow wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

OneForSorrow wrote: »

--snip.

at least we agree on the last part. as for animation canceling, i appreciate it for its highest skill ceiling. it adds different levels of skill tiers. low, low med, med, med high, high. that kind of stuff. i always compare it to tech skill in super smash bros melee.

I appreciate the skill ceiling involved in cancelling and weaving in a perfect world. My issue, as I said, isn't with the idea of it. My issue is that the game doesn't actually support it. There are a looot of people who actually time out their weaves well but the server doesn't recognize that they've pushed a button when they did.

We need more stable servers if they want to push weaving as meta. I'm sure the PvP crowd would benefit from that too.

I 100% agree. And I think that is by far the biggest complaint about PvP, or even the game entirely. I think we need to just bring it to the point to where ZOS literally can no longer ignore it.