bruh why tho

Crow_IX

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

zvavi

I think they are trying to bring the floor closer to ceiling in PvE, that's why proc sets has good damage. Not as good as parsing with hunding/Juli, but at least 1/3 of that. 1/3 of something that parses is painful

Recapitated

zvavi wrote: »

I think they are trying to bring the floor closer to ceiling in PvE, that's why proc sets has good damage. Not as good as parsing with hunding/Juli, but at least 1/3 of that. 1/3 of something that parses is painful

We have a major/minor buff that works only in PVE and at least one proc set I can think of that only works on players (Vicious Death). Why not do the same thing for sets intended to raise the skill floor in PVE?

Balancing across PVP and PVE is a nightmare for classes and skill lines, but refusing to compartmentalize contentious sets to one or the other is just making it harder to gain... what exactly?

zvavi

Recapitated wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I think they are trying to bring the floor closer to ceiling in PvE, that's why proc sets has good damage. Not as good as parsing with hunding/Juli, but at least 1/3 of that. 1/3 of something that parses is painful

We have a major/minor buff that works only in PVE and at least one proc set I can think of that only works on players (Vicious Death). Why not do the same thing for sets intended to raise the skill floor in PVE?

Balancing across PVP and PVE is a nightmare for classes and skill lines, but refusing to compartmentalize contentious sets to one or the other is just making it harder to gain... what exactly?

To standardize all proc sets? Idk, don't ask me, ask the ones that make the rules.

barney2525

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Recapitated

zvavi wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

I think they are trying to bring the floor closer to ceiling in PvE, that's why proc sets has good damage. Not as good as parsing with hunding/Juli, but at least 1/3 of that. 1/3 of something that parses is painful

We have a major/minor buff that works only in PVE and at least one proc set I can think of that only works on players (Vicious Death). Why not do the same thing for sets intended to raise the skill floor in PVE?

Balancing across PVP and PVE is a nightmare for classes and skill lines, but refusing to compartmentalize contentious sets to one or the other is just making it harder to gain... what exactly?

To standardize all proc sets? Idk, don't ask me, ask the ones that make the rules.

Just make the ones that are intended to raise the skill floor in PVE viable only in PVE.

Recapitated

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

EdmondDontes

Correlation is not causation, but lag increases have correlated with increases in proc sets.

barney2525

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Recapitated

barney2525 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Item storage problems should be solved with changes to item storage, not combat mechanics. Just add an armoury chest similar to the craft bag if that's the concern.

Firstmep

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Item storage problems should be solved with changes to item storage, not combat mechanics. Just add an armoury chest similar to the craft bag if that's the concern.

There are Add-ons that can help with gear swapping, maybe one day Zos will copy those as well and make them base game.

omnidoh

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

Profit.
Nothing more, nothing less.

zaria

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Honestly there's so many sets out there I really don't see the need to turn the 5pc bonuses into a Swiss army knife

One of the big complaints I see on here is that characters have to store multiple sets in inventory, depending on whether they are doing PvP or PvE. This way you could have one set you wear that is effective in both PvE and PvP.

Item storage problems should be solved with changes to item storage, not combat mechanics. Just add an armoury chest similar to the craft bag if that's the concern.

The new sticker system should take care of that problem. You want pvp specific gear anyway.

d3adpain

well just give up on it, its already dead both pve and pvp they destroyed them for casuals and rp players
i still play it some times but waiting to hop on to something else ,new world looks good tbh

Recapitated

d3adpain wrote: »

well just give up on it, its already dead both pve and pvp they destroyed them for casuals and rp players
i still play it some times but waiting to hop on to something else ,new world looks good tbh

I've spent more time watching AOC/NW/GW2 videos than playing in the past two weeks lol

Luckylancer

Game's direction is Sims Online You dont need skill, time invesment etc.

Grab the loot from normal content, upgrade them with writ mats&gold, throw in a minesweeper mythical and you have gear. 2 proc sets, 1 domihaus piece, malacath ring. Then start spaming poison injection to everyone. You can do this on mag toon too btw. Procs just proc, it just works.

Rewards are motifs, furnishers, mementos, titles etc.

I think fashion and housing are nice but they should not be the end game. They should be side fun.

d3adpain wrote: »

well just give up on it, its already dead both pve and pvp they destroyed them for casuals and rp players
i still play it some times but waiting to hop on to something else ,new world looks good tbh

They have ruined this game for casuals. I want to try new world too but my hope investment is with AoC.

Crow_IX

d3adpain wrote: »

well just give up on it, its already dead both pve and pvp they destroyed them for casuals and rp players
i still play it some times but waiting to hop on to something else ,new world looks good tbh

I'm more interested in Ashes of Creation. New World does not look fun at all in my opinion, but that's just my thoughts. I also don't think Ashes will be what it promises to be but I would like to try it out none the less. Unfortunately ESO has had a deep dive into becoming a broken game and it sucks because I loved ESO for its PvP. But all we can do is sit on the forums and bring it up over and over hoping ZOS doesn't ignore us.

Crow_IX

zvavi wrote: »

I think they are trying to bring the floor closer to ceiling in PvE, that's why proc sets has good damage. Not as good as parsing with hunding/Juli, but at least 1/3 of that. 1/3 of something that parses is painful

For PvP specifically you'll see instances where they lower the ceiling but also raise the floor. For example, they took away block canceling, nerfed bash canceling, added cast times, nerf sustain countless times and nerfed defense as a whole but most notably impenetrable or crit resist. These are all examples of lowering the skill ceiling. With raising the skill floor they have added and buffed several damage proc sets, most notably hunters venom, and they added mythics, which I guess is a personal opinion but I feel like mythics broke the game because now you can't balance mythic items without making them feel too strong or too weak.

It's unfortunate but it is very clear they do not want a big skill gap anymore, but that's what made the game so great to begin with. Now it's frustrating or boring.

Crow_IX

barney2525 wrote: »

Too bad the system can't differentiate between PCs and NPCs. Could have X effect vs NPCs and Y effect vs PCs all on the same set.

Personally I think it would have been better to rebalance mobs rather than sets (when making changes to the game). For example if a set is performing not too great in PvP but over performing in PvE, just retune the mobs or at least just the boss, no need to destroy the set completely. As for PvP set balancing, I'm unsure but proc sets are a major issue and should not be in the state they are in currently (idk how they perform in PvE cause I never PvE).

Crow_IX

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Correlation is not causation, but lag increases have correlated with increases in proc sets.

I'm sure that's part of it, but another part is the direction ZOS takes the game. I mentioned to another reply that ZOS, for what ever reason, at one point decided to buff hunters venom. They definitely support this type of play which is not good. I know many players currently probably don't see an issue with it but being killed by an over tuned set, rather than a player's skill and resource management, is just so frustrating. I agree though, lag is definitely a factor since most players are probably tired of having targeting issues or desyncs or skill delays and several other issues that on can experienced in just 15 mins of play, which was my experience today.

Wolfpaw

to promote growth, participation, & revenue

Crow_IX

Wolfpaw wrote: »

to promote growth, participation, & revenue

does that really work though? cause a lot of vets got pushed away from the game and almost everything is cosmetic.

Wolfpaw

Crow_IX wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

to promote growth, participation, & revenue

does that really work though? cause a lot of vets got pushed away from the game and almost everything is cosmetic.

Idk.

A lot of vets are still here, & many new players. PS4 Is always busy.

Simplify combat (pve & pvp) so not to push new, & average/casual players away.

Change things like combat, skills, cd's, etc...game side stuff for next gen, longevity, stability, & performance.

& we haven't even got to the CP update yet.

2c

Jeremy

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts that proc you to death in a microsecond? Because I doubt they do.

Crow_IX

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

to promote growth, participation, & revenue

does that really work though? cause a lot of vets got pushed away from the game and almost everything is cosmetic.

Idk.

A lot of vets are still here, & many new players. PS4 Is always busy.

Simplify combat (pve & pvp) so not to push new, & average/casual players away.

Change things like combat, skills, cd's, etc...game side stuff for next gen, longevity, stability, & performance.

& we haven't even got to the CP update yet.

2c

on pc we lost players like moontan, akean, darkshadey, mrpig. many non streaming but very talented players as well.

the combat was already simple it was just different. and people dont like that. eso hasnt gained more people. its lost and or stayed still in player base. dont fix something thats not broken because all they did was simplify to help new players feel like they arent out matched when they are and should be because theyre new, and vets and competitive players give up because this lack luster combat.

thats expected, but what is NOT okay is deleting class identity and pushing for a meta where sets do the work.

cp should have stayed around 600, cp is one of the biggest balancing issues with the game, if proc sets weren't so powerful right now no cp would feel more playable.

(keep in mind, most of my point of view is strictly pvp, since my pve experience is solo a dungeon cause i need a set and thats it.)

Crow_IX

Jeremy wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

I'm tired of these janky mechanics and constant delays and desyncs just because we have to change block canceling, bash canceling, "lets remove anything skill based while adding things to make the game easier for players like insane damage proc sets", like why would anyone think thats a good idea? the game hasn't felt good in months, maybe almost a year. its not fun its frustrating feeling players just melt you with proc sets that you cant do anything about. how about we care about all players not just the casual base of players? how many dedicated vets left already because y'all dont pay attention to them. "listening to the community" isn't just listening to the majority only or to the casual base only (which i guess is the majority?). vets know damn well what mechanics are good and what mechanics are cheese or exploits and thats what the class reps should be but i doubt y'all listen to them cause no one in their right mind would have said "yo lets remove block canceling to bring vets closer to new players". come on zos, bring good eso back please

Do casual players actually like these insane damage bursts that proc you to death in a microsecond? Because I doubt they do.

i mean when ever i ask people why they use proc sets they say "its in the game" or some half assed answer like they know its cheesy but its over performing and thats all it takes. do they like it? thats not really it, i think they dont care, they will use what ever is performing the best, lack of build diversity is another huge issue the current meta and recent changes to the game have brought on. i am pretty sure casuals dont care for the set but like the damage, they like the numbers and how the sets perform.

Firstmep

omnidoh wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

Profit.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I think it's more to do with their push to allow less experienced players to be more relevant, close the skill gap, so to speak.

Crow_IX

Firstmep wrote: »

omnidoh wrote: »

Crow_IX wrote: »

why is zos pushing so hard for proc sets?
why is zos trying so hard to close the skill gap?

Profit.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I think it's more to do with their push to allow less experienced players to be more relevant, close the skill gap, so to speak.

thats a MAJOR issue though. it's not that less experienced players are irrelevant, they just need to learn the game. but a lot of people who try the game usually dont want to put the time and effort into it and eso will always be a game that people try out for a while. closing the gap hurts pvp more than anything and the experience is becoming frustrating and no longer enjoyable. hell, you used to be able to run solo, but they nerfed; movement speed, resource sustain, healing, resistances, and now solo is nearly impossible. they deleted an entire playstyle for the sake of making "less experienced players be more relevant"... that is a problem.

Fuzzybrick

To play devil's advocate, on console most players taking advantage of animation cancelling are using programmable controllers. There isn't any skill in that.

EnglishTea123

I think the fact that a stamplar's jav knocks the opponent back before we even see the jav itself says quite a lot about this game's combat mechanics in general. A magplar's jav has to hit the opponent to knock the opponent down, but a stamplar's? The moment the stamplar player presses the button, it knocks you down, AND THEN you see the javelin coming. Same thing on 2h's Executioner ability. It looks like you take damage right when the button's pressed as opposed to when the animation finishes, which is what makes it go through dodge-rolls. Instead of a fix for these, what do we get? (More) Proc sets.

Crow_IX

EnglishTea123 wrote: »

I think the fact that a stamplar's jav knocks the opponent back before we even see the jav itself says quite a lot about this game's combat mechanics in general. A magplar's jav has to hit the opponent to knock the opponent down, but a stamplar's? The moment the stamplar player presses the button, it knocks you down, AND THEN you see the javelin coming. Same thing on 2h's Executioner ability. It looks like you take damage right when the button's pressed as opposed to when the animation finishes, which is what makes it go through dodge-rolls. Instead of a fix for these, what do we get? (More) Proc sets.

i think this is mostly desync you're referring to. hp desync when you're dead way before a player puts out that killing blow. cc desync seems to be overwhelming with certain skills like dk leap. i know they are aware of these issues but they havent said much about it. they speak of "performance issues" issues as a whole. which each issue has its own root cause, you cant fix it by adding cds and i know they know that...