Dungeons not fit for pugs : stone gardens

Jeremy

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

That being said, I would support removing a lot of the one-shot deaths from DLC dungeons. I think they go overboard with them - especially considering all of the visual obstructions this game has. I think these are more frustrating than challenging and a cheesy way to try and make your content difficult.

I don't know. Those one-shot kills do force us to learn the mechanics.. That's why the normal vet dungeons are so easy, it's just (slightly)harder hitting bosses with more health really. On the other hand they should group the DLCs as different from the normals at least on vet.

Having the group die from a one shot because they didn't properly execute a "mechanic" is one thing.

But having the group die because of some random move obscured by a dozen different visual globs on the screen is another.

In other words; I'm not against forcing the group to have to complete the "mechanic" of a fight. That's fine so long as the mechanics are understood and not presented in an overly cryptic fashion. But I am against having instant death lurking behind every obscured animation. It's just too much - and one of the reasons it's not uncommon for people to have to wait hours for tanks willing to do these dungeons - and that's if they even get one at all. There comes a point in time when it's just more frustrating than challenging fun.

ssewallb14_ESO

*shrug* SG is one of the easier DLC to pug for me as long you don't press the HM buttons. I actually thought the normal-vet-vetHM balance was really well done. Vet is pretty reasonable with a decent/patient pug and Vet HM is challenging enough for the higher level groups.

Calm_Fury

Stone Garden is indeed annoying to pug on vet.

I think most dungeons now are completely PUGGable. It wasn't the case a few years back.

When I tank consistently the vet Pledges, the only ones that end up in failure more than completion now are vMHK, vFV and vSG.

I think vFL is the worst offender by far. I think I can vet pug it as a tank and complete it only 10% of the time. It is a disaster.

Really reminds me of the old days of vet White Gold Tower, when the Plannar Inhibittor was the biggest pug killer ever hehe. I really wish the nerfed it a little bit now that all hard-code players have all achievements there.

MirandaSharp

Jeremy wrote: »

But I am against having instant death lurking behind every obscured animation.

Oh, yes! I hate it when there are fire breathing deadroths obscuring my view of the boss and BAM! I'm dead! No clue, but I guess the boss did a heavy attack that I couldn't possibly see with the deadroths breathing fire all over him. Tank annoyance #1, at least for me.

MirandaSharp

Jeremy wrote: »

Having the group die from a one shot because they didn't properly execute a "mechanic" is one thing.

I think it's actually "THE" thing separating the normal dungeons from the DLC dungeons. The normal dungeons you can do on vet without knowing any mechanics! The DLC ones, even on normal, you need to know the mechanics. On vet they're just really unforgiving.

MirandaSharp

Pevey wrote: »

Because some people were never into puzzle/adventure games. DLC dungeons are too long, too tedious, and too filled with ridiculous “mechanics” that some people are not interested in. Having one such puzzle or unique fight design in a final boss is one thing, but an entire experience of it is just not some people’s idea of fun. Random group or not.

I know, a lot of people are just doing their daily randoms.. They just want to run through and get it over with for the xp, stones etc..

MirandaSharp

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

I see this every new dungeon they put more and more pressure on the tanks while every other role is a breeze compared to the hell the tanks has to endure and juggle.

-Not true! Problem is the perception that the tank knows everything, so they just have to dps and heal.

Danksta

Pugged it about half of my runs while farming Catalyst, some without a tank.

Kurat

vSG is easily pugable, just need to pay attention a little more than overland. Theres hardly any mechanics and doable with very low dps. Make sure to pick up the green glowing mushrooms, you need 3 for the buff for secret rooms. Then kill vamp or ww in secret room and loot another component. Then there's alchemist table in there, craft buff. 1st room gives you wep/spell dmg, 2nd room mag/stam recovery, 3rd hp bonus. These buffs help quite a bit at last boss. Alot of pug tanks seemed to struggle at last boss. Main thing is not to just burn boss, he seems hp % based, meaning more adds the faster you burn. All adds put some dot on you, and their heavy attack can 1 shot dps and healer. This is why its important that tank taunts them as soon as they spawn. Dps needs to focus add not staying on boss. You don't wanna have several adds up, it can wreck tank quick. Just avoid aoes and dps, there's no other mechanics in non hm.

PS. I tanked vet few times also and got 10k dps guys lol. Even with group dps only around 20k, it was still easy. This dungeon is probably one of the easiest dlcs, with no mechanics or dps checks. Whoever asking nerfs has something seriously wrong with their build or needs to l2p.

Vevvev

I Solo'd Stone Garden on normal on a DPS build and did it with a semi decent group just fine on veteran the day it come out. Nothing about this dungeon is not pug friendly, it's actually the opposite.

Jeremy

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Having the group die from a one shot because they didn't properly execute a "mechanic" is one thing.

I think it's actually "THE" thing separating the normal dungeons from the DLC dungeons. The normal dungeons you can do on vet without knowing any mechanics! The DLC ones, even on normal, you need to know the mechanics. On vet they're just really unforgiving.

It's a big part of it. I won't dispute that.

But the enemies are also more difficult to kill and hit harder. So I do think it's the only thing separating the two. But I get what you're saying and I don't disagree.

AndyMac

Post title should be pugs not fit for dungeons imo. I’ve pugged most vet Dungeons in the game plus a few HMs. I’ve also been in quite a few failed groups.

The content is never the problem imo and it doesn’t need to be changed.

The problem is some players queue for dungeons they will never complete. Ever.