We fight more vampire lords than Bone-Goliath transformation NPCs. Kinda wack.

Vayln_Ninetails

Hey all! Just wanted to make this post pointing out something I just noticed. I don't think it makes too much sense that we fight more vampire lords than Bone-Goliath necromancers, yet we as players can't get the vampire lord transformation, but have the Bone Goliath one?

At the very least swarming scion should get wings that makes them look similar to a vampire lord, I think. They don't need to hover or anything and it'd be purely a cosmetic thing.

Just found it kinda interesting with ZOS's stance on transformations being so all over the place. Werewolves look like NPC werewolves and even share NPC abilities with them! (except behemoth), Bone Goliaths look exactly like the bone goliath player transformation and don't give the NPCs anything the players don't get. But OH WAIT when it comes to vampire, apparently no other vampire has a transformation as weak as ours because they all have Blood Knights/Vampire Lords! Both of which are better and look pretty different to a blood scion.

I just think it is such a design flaw to not give us a form that can look either like a bloodknight or vampire lord based upon what morph you take. The freaking Werewolf Behemoth transformation in Stone Garden has more thought process and design behind it than the current Blood Scion ult. That is just sad.

Don't even get me started on how Bone Goliath is supposed to be a spell for only VERY experienced necromancers, yet we can't raise zombies or any melee undead or bone colossus like normal necromancers. Speaking of which, I saw the other day a necromancer-for-hire normie trash NPC summon three skeletons around them that weren't temporary. Guess they must have been a master level conjuration wizard then. Wish we had that kind of power as a player! Which....logically since we can turn into a bone goliath we should have the power to summon zombies/warrior skeletons by necromancer-standards.

nukk3r

I think that a Vampire Lord is an equivalent of a Lich, which would be the ultimate necromancer form.

Vayln_Ninetails

nukk3r wrote: »

I think that a Vampire Lord is an equivalent of a Lich, which would be the ultimate necromancer form.

The wack thing there is that we fight more liches as a common enemy over vampire lords.

I'm still a bit sad we as players can't get a temporary lich form, tbh.

But both are more common than the bone goliath form, which is even more strange.

Vevvev

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

I think that a Vampire Lord is an equivalent of a Lich, which would be the ultimate necromancer form.

The wack thing there is that we fight more liches as a common enemy over vampire lords.

I'm still a bit sad we as players can't get a temporary lich form, tbh.

But both are more common than the bone goliath form, which is even more strange.

Temporary lich form? Lich is a permanent state of being and once you become one that's basically it.

craybest

isn't vampire lord the equivalent of werwolf behemoth? and both of them are unavailable as players?
I mean we share the look from reguar werewolf npcs, same as we can share the regular vampire npcs look.

Vayln_Ninetails

craybest wrote: »

isn't vampire lord the equivalent of werwolf behemoth? and both of them are unavailable as players?
I mean we share the look from reguar werewolf npcs, same as we can share the regular vampire npcs look.

But we don't share the same look as vampire NPCs. That is my point.

Vayln_Ninetails

Vevvev wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

I think that a Vampire Lord is an equivalent of a Lich, which would be the ultimate necromancer form.

The wack thing there is that we fight more liches as a common enemy over vampire lords.

I'm still a bit sad we as players can't get a temporary lich form, tbh.

But both are more common than the bone goliath form, which is even more strange.

Temporary lich form? Lich is a permanent state of being and once you become one that's basically it.

Game limitations could be introduced. Or perhaps you're in lich form permanently and have to keep killing things to stay in it. Otherwise you die and lose the form.

Both times we've seen a Bone Goliath transformation used by NPCs it has been permanent. Same for Blood Knights.

We've already broken/added lore when it comes to the Blood Scion and Bone Goliath forms, I dont see why we cant edit things around when it comes to liches at that point then. We fight some liches that are insanely weak.

craybest

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

craybest wrote: »

isn't vampire lord the equivalent of werwolf behemoth? and both of them are unavailable as players?
I mean we share the look from reguar werewolf npcs, same as we can share the regular vampire npcs look.

But we don't share the same look as vampire NPCs. That is my point.

no? I'm sure there's lots of npc vampires with white skin and red eyes around the world, just like characters.

CaffeinatedMayhem

I hope the devs change the vampire ultimate to just make the player a Bloodknight.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Ryuvain

Why cant scion use claws or blood attacks? Since behemoth and vamp lord are both unavailable yet given out so trivially to npcs they're in the same boat.

Wish we could play them both.

Vayln_Ninetails

craybest wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

craybest wrote: »

isn't vampire lord the equivalent of werwolf behemoth? and both of them are unavailable as players?
I mean we share the look from reguar werewolf npcs, same as we can share the regular vampire npcs look.

But we don't share the same look as vampire NPCs. That is my point.

no? I'm sure there's lots of npc vampires with white skin and red eyes around the world, just like characters.

This thread is very obviously talking about the transformation.

Vayln_Ninetails

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

I hope the devs change the vampire ultimate to just make the player a Bloodknight.

it should at least be a morph tbh

Vayln_Ninetails

Ryuvain wrote: »

Why cant scion use claws or blood attacks? Since behemoth and vamp lord are both unavailable yet given out so trivially to npcs they're in the same boat.

Wish we could play them both.

Likewise! I wish werewolves had a behemoth variant and vampires had a lord variant.

One can dream, I suppose.

Vayln_Ninetails

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Well, they could easily scale down the vampire lord model and we'd be fine. And fine-tune some of their powers and honestly they have a pretty balanced transformation worthy kit. I would ask though that if we ever get such a form that werewolves also get a nerfed down version of the behemoth form. I don't know why they don't want people to play with these. So many people have fun with the big chonky werewolf in Stone Garden, so many people want Vampire Lord. Why not just add them to make these people happy? And give some variety to the play style?

I can agree with you regarding the Blood Scion appearance though. I wouldn't be against a more humanoid vampire lord form if it had SOME semblance of wings on the swarming morph. Ethereal, bat like, whichever.

I will say it does feel a little off putting to see no Blood Scion NPCs yet see many vampire lords and bloodknights running around. Makes me want to look like one of them instead as the Blood Scion is too standoffish and ironically feels weird being the only one.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Well, they could easily scale down the vampire lord model and we'd be fine. And fine-tune some of their powers and honestly they have a pretty balanced transformation worthy kit. I would ask though that if we ever get such a form that werewolves also get a nerfed down version of the behemoth form. I don't know why they don't want people to play with these. So many people have fun with the big chonky werewolf in Stone Garden, so many people want Vampire Lord. Why not just add them to make these people happy? And give some variety to the play style?

I can agree with you regarding the Blood Scion appearance though. I wouldn't be against a more humanoid vampire lord form if it had SOME semblance of wings on the swarming morph. Ethereal, bat like, whichever.

I will say it does feel a little off putting to see no Blood Scion NPCs yet see many vampire lords and bloodknights running around. Makes me want to look like one of them instead as the Blood Scion is too standoffish and ironically feels weird being the only one.

Why would it feel off-putting? your unique among Vampires, why would you want others to have your form?

Vayln_Ninetails

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Well, they could easily scale down the vampire lord model and we'd be fine. And fine-tune some of their powers and honestly they have a pretty balanced transformation worthy kit. I would ask though that if we ever get such a form that werewolves also get a nerfed down version of the behemoth form. I don't know why they don't want people to play with these. So many people have fun with the big chonky werewolf in Stone Garden, so many people want Vampire Lord. Why not just add them to make these people happy? And give some variety to the play style?

I can agree with you regarding the Blood Scion appearance though. I wouldn't be against a more humanoid vampire lord form if it had SOME semblance of wings on the swarming morph. Ethereal, bat like, whichever.

I will say it does feel a little off putting to see no Blood Scion NPCs yet see many vampire lords and bloodknights running around. Makes me want to look like one of them instead as the Blood Scion is too standoffish and ironically feels weird being the only one.

Why would it feel off-putting? your unique among Vampires, why would you want others to have your form?

Because sharing a form with NPCs provides immersion? The whole point of vampire/werewolf in ESO is to provide the player with a sense of feeling like a monster aka the NPCs.

It loses that touch if you turn into something super unique and not like the monsters you're supposed to be mirroring.

Ryuvain

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Well, they could easily scale down the vampire lord model and we'd be fine. And fine-tune some of their powers and honestly they have a pretty balanced transformation worthy kit. I would ask though that if we ever get such a form that werewolves also get a nerfed down version of the behemoth form. I don't know why they don't want people to play with these. So many people have fun with the big chonky werewolf in Stone Garden, so many people want Vampire Lord. Why not just add them to make these people happy? And give some variety to the play style?

I can agree with you regarding the Blood Scion appearance though. I wouldn't be against a more humanoid vampire lord form if it had SOME semblance of wings on the swarming morph. Ethereal, bat like, whichever.

I will say it does feel a little off putting to see no Blood Scion NPCs yet see many vampire lords and bloodknights running around. Makes me want to look like one of them instead as the Blood Scion is too standoffish and ironically feels weird being the only one.

Why would it feel off-putting? your unique among Vampires, why would you want others to have your form?

Because sharing a form with NPCs provides immersion? The whole point of vampire/werewolf in ESO is to provide the player with a sense of feeling like a monster aka the NPCs.

It loses that touch if you turn into something super unique and not like the monsters you're supposed to be mirroring.

To add into this: it makes scion feel like a massive copout. Seeing how beautifully designed and deadly npc vampire lords look and fight makes me feel like we got a cheap knockoff. I like scion, but comparing the two becomes hilarious.

Even base vampires get this. They received a lot of new and cool abilities that players didn't and a lot of people were mad about it. There was a thread on here about that too.

Vayln_Ninetails

Ryuvain wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You cannot be a Vampire Lord and not feel like a complete and utter weakling given how large ZOS has depicted them because face it ZOS would have to make them smaller which inturn would make you look weak by comparison to NPC Vampires because you would be a puny Vampire Lord, they are simply too large a creature to be playable in this game.

At least the Blood Scion goes for a more humanoid Vampire Lord look which I am fine with, I just wish it had better armor, we wear the exact same armor as generic Vampire Lord enemies but why? can we not have something more befitting of our station as a Vampire created by Lamae Bal?

Which brings me to my next point, notice how there are no Blood Scion NPCs, makes you wonder if the form is "lorewise" created specifically for the Vestige by Lamae or if she has created others, odds are we will probbaly never see a Blood Scion enemy mainly because they are exclusive and even then a rogue Blood Scion might not sit too well with her.

Well, they could easily scale down the vampire lord model and we'd be fine. And fine-tune some of their powers and honestly they have a pretty balanced transformation worthy kit. I would ask though that if we ever get such a form that werewolves also get a nerfed down version of the behemoth form. I don't know why they don't want people to play with these. So many people have fun with the big chonky werewolf in Stone Garden, so many people want Vampire Lord. Why not just add them to make these people happy? And give some variety to the play style?

I can agree with you regarding the Blood Scion appearance though. I wouldn't be against a more humanoid vampire lord form if it had SOME semblance of wings on the swarming morph. Ethereal, bat like, whichever.

I will say it does feel a little off putting to see no Blood Scion NPCs yet see many vampire lords and bloodknights running around. Makes me want to look like one of them instead as the Blood Scion is too standoffish and ironically feels weird being the only one.

Why would it feel off-putting? your unique among Vampires, why would you want others to have your form?

Because sharing a form with NPCs provides immersion? The whole point of vampire/werewolf in ESO is to provide the player with a sense of feeling like a monster aka the NPCs.

It loses that touch if you turn into something super unique and not like the monsters you're supposed to be mirroring.

To add into this: it makes scion feel like a massive copout. Seeing how beautifully designed and deadly npc vampire lords look and fight makes me feel like we got a cheap knockoff. I like scion, but comparing the two becomes hilarious.

Even base vampires get this. They received a lot of new and cool abilities that players didn't and a lot of people were mad about it. There was a thread on here about that too.

I agree completely! Seeing the beautiful models of the NPC vampire lords and how cool their abilities are makes me sad. If these were Scions instead and they never introduced vampire lords at all, then I'd be 100% fine with it. Don't get me wrong, Scion is cool. But compared to vampire lord? It isn't even a contest. It is a DIRECT upgrade from Scion in terms of coolness all around.

Even if you don't like vampire lord there could still be a morph that turns the player into a Bloodknight-looking transformation, which would fit those that don't like vamp lords for some reason.

Base vampires VERY much got the actual rework too. With greymoor they got a boat load of new abilities I wish as a player I could use. A drain that lifts people up in the air (and visually looks cool)? The ability to summon Death Hounds, Blood Imps, or a gargoyle/hemoglobin bloodknight? Heck yeah. The power to teleport across the land in a swarm of bats without requiring a target? Sign me up. Various AoE blood magic attacks AND a bat swarm channel that summons an AoE thing of bats that follows the target? FRICK YEAH.

Meanwhile we get a suicide button and the ability to cut ourselves. Real nice, zos. Lol.

Don't even get me started on the vampire-lord abilities....and how I'd very much love to use player-nerfed versions of them... Throwing Blood Spears? Turning into a cloud of bats at a location and becoming untargetable for a bit? I'll stop there.

I don't even feel like a vampire. I feel like a bloodfiend.

ManM

I think the answer has eventually worked its way out: a blood scion isn't a vampire at all. You react to drinking blood, yes, but you don't require it for sustenance. There is no desperate thirst. You are just an oddball experiment by Lamae that devolves into a weak and feral trash mob if you drink blood. Why would you get to look like a vampire lord when you aren't even vampiric?

That means the true vampires, the NPCs, can remain at lore levels of awesome visuals and power, while freeing the devs from having to balance a proper vampire skill line against other player skills.

Ryuvain

ManM wrote: »

I think the answer has eventually worked its way out: a blood scion isn't a vampire at all. You react to drinking blood, yes, but you don't require it for sustenance. There is no desperate thirst. You are just an oddball experiment by Lamae that devolves into a weak and feral trash mob if you drink blood. Why would you get to look like a vampire lord when you aren't even vampiric?

That means the true vampires, the NPCs, can remain at lore levels of awesome visuals and power, while freeing the devs from having to balance a proper vampire skill line against other player skills.

In a way, this sadly makes sense.

Vayln_Ninetails

ManM wrote: »

I think the answer has eventually worked its way out: a blood scion isn't a vampire at all. You react to drinking blood, yes, but you don't require it for sustenance. There is no desperate thirst. You are just an oddball experiment by Lamae that devolves into a weak and feral trash mob if you drink blood. Why would you get to look like a vampire lord when you aren't even vampiric?

That means the true vampires, the NPCs, can remain at lore levels of awesome visuals and power, while freeing the devs from having to balance a proper vampire skill line against other player skills.

BIG TRUE.


here's to the future and vampire rework 2.0 electric boogaloo.