Pointless nerfs rant

CaffeinatedMayhem

You know what was great? Finally being able to take on "infinity tanks" - Thews wearing high health do nothing but block tanks. Sheer Venom was a great set to help with that. Before you gripe, realize that 1 - Sheer Venom's DOT never stacked, and 2 - was usually 2k/sec for 6 seconds. Getting the 4k/sec tick required the target to be well under 50% health. This was great against high health regen, high health tanks, as a way to wear them down when running solo. Sorry, it's not always possible to "just walk away", not in IC or in Battlegrounds.

OH hey, what got nerfed? Sheer Venom. Now the maximum DOT is 2k/sec, and will usually be 1k/sec. I've got Thews hits that are nearly 3k, and all the tank did was block and be a necro.

Can we stop griping about proc sets? Either nerf builds that block, live forever AND kill people, or accept that damage builds will all be glass cannons to fight tanks.

Guess I need to go gear up my necro in Thews for Markarth.

Gilvoth

i have to agreee, proc sets and sets are not the problem.
nerfs to proc sets are not necessary.
and as i just stated previously:
we have seen people with the strongest sets in the game still loose pvp and pve fights and we have also seen people with the weakest sets in eso Win pvp and pve fights.

likecats

People always insist on proc sets to fight tanks.

But proc sets are the #1 thing in this game that enable tank builds that can actually do damage.
Make procs scale with your stats (including crits), and 90% of tanks will stop playing tanks as they won't be able to do any damage with that 30k health in no cp.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

If it's so good against tanks, imagine how strong it is against non tank players. That's why it got nerfed. It deserved it and the rest of the proc sets need nerfs too.

relentless_turnip

likecats wrote: »

People always insist on proc sets to fight tanks.

But proc sets are the #1 thing in this game that enable tank builds that can actually do damage.
Make procs scale with your stats (including crits), and 90% of tanks will stop playing tanks as they won't be able to do any damage with that 30k health in no cp.

Totally agree. Proc sets enable a player to not build for any damage, but just put on sets that do all their damage for them.

Any player that knows what they're doing and wants to be on top is wearing 3+ proc sets with 35k+ health. All 3+ proc sets trigger of a single attack allowing you to bypass the GCD and casting 6 skills in one second essentially.

The same players that want proc sets are often the same that claim animation cancelling is an exploit, but are advocating exactly what they think animation cancelling enables...

Why would anyone want to play an mmo where all your damage is done for you...

You should all watch isth3reno1else scoring highest in BG's with just light attacks and poison injects 😂

Such engaging combat... Anyone not familiar with his opinion on proc sets should understand this is a satirical video. Heavily laced in sarcasm.

https://youtu.be/clfi6k7LifY

universal_wrath

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

You know what was great? Finally being able to take on "infinity tanks" - Thews wearing high health do nothing but block tanks. Sheer Venom was a great set to help with that. Before you gripe, realize that 1 - Sheer Venom's DOT never stacked, and 2 - was usually 2k/sec for 6 seconds. Getting the 4k/sec tick required the target to be well under 50% health. This was great against high health regen, high health tanks, as a way to wear them down when running solo. Sorry, it's not always possible to "just walk away", not in IC or in Battlegrounds.

OH hey, what got nerfed? Sheer Venom. Now the maximum DOT is 2k/sec, and will usually be 1k/sec. I've got Thews hits that are nearly 3k, and all the tank did was block and be a necro.

Can we stop griping about proc sets? Either nerf builds that block, live forever AND kill people, or accept that damage builds will all be glass cannons to fight tanks.

Guess I need to go gear up my necro in Thews for Markarth.

Not all tanks wear thew and hold block. Some tabks actually wear 3 other sets beside thew uncluding sheer venom. What about the non-tanky bois who stack 5k+ wp and still not able to purge or outheal 2 simple dots from sheer venom and venomous? Please don't forget that there are other people besude tanks who are affected by proc sets, being focused on one group and trying to balance everything is not the right way.

Do you know how to kill tanky proc bois? Make proc sets scale with highest offensive stats.

CaffeinatedMayhem

universal_wrath wrote: »

Do you know how to kill tanky proc bois? Make proc sets scale with highest offensive stats.

That's all well and good... but they don't. So instead of nerfing the sets that enable tanks... the devs chose to nerf sets that people complained about. Well, only a few of them. Other sets were left.

It's like the devs get on a roll about actually getting back to some semblance of balance, then figure if they do too much it will break... and break it by not doing enough.

jaws343

relentless_turnip wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

People always insist on proc sets to fight tanks.

But proc sets are the #1 thing in this game that enable tank builds that can actually do damage.
Make procs scale with your stats (including crits), and 90% of tanks will stop playing tanks as they won't be able to do any damage with that 30k health in no cp.

Totally agree. Proc sets enable a player to not build for any damage, but just put on sets that do all their damage for them.

Any player that knows what they're doing and wants to be on top is wearing 3+ proc sets with 35k+ health. All 3+ proc sets trigger of a single attack allowing you to bypass the GCD and casting 6 skills in one second essentially.

The same players that want proc sets are often the same that claim animation cancelling is an exploit, but are advocating exactly what they think animation cancelling enables...

Why would anyone want to play an mmo where all your damage is done for you...

You should all watch isth3reno1else scoring highest in BG's with just light attacks and poison injects 😂

Such engaging combat... Anyone not familiar with his opinion on proc sets should understand this is a satirical video. Heavily laced in sarcasm.

https://youtu.be/clfi6k7LifY

If people can watch that video, where the only offensive skills being used are Poison Injection and light attacks, and he gets over 1M in damage and a ton of kills, and they still defend proc sets, there is just no point in listening to them anymore really.

CaffeinatedMayhem

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

If it's so good against tanks, imagine how strong it is against non tank players. That's why it got nerfed. It deserved it and the rest of the proc sets need nerfs too.

Um, it's the same damage either way. You can either out heal it or not. That's up to your build.

PvP should never be "I do all the damage and no one ever kills me." - never ever in any game.

ESO PvP was best when you could EITHER do damage, or not die (until 30 people stacked on you)

This being able to kill someone simply by blocking is wrong.

And let me know what "just hold block" tanks wear sheer venom... a set that only procs by using an execute skill. You're arguing a different topic, go make your own thread.

As for a "look I'm a god video"... yeah some people can do that. Most can't and don't. Nerfs should never happen because of what 0.01% of the player base MIGHT do (without cheats). I'm not going to go into what a lot of the player base does WITH cheating...

Honestly, if you're in this thread saying how proc sets need nerfs... but aren't talking about how only a few sets got nerfed, and aren't even the ones that got the most complaints, you're the reason this stupidity went down.

likecats

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

If it's so good against tanks, imagine how strong it is against non tank players. That's why it got nerfed. It deserved it and the rest of the proc sets need nerfs too.

Um, it's the same damage either way. You can either out heal it or not. That's up to your build.

PvP should never be "I do all the damage and no one ever kills me." - never ever in any game.

ESO PvP was best when you could EITHER do damage, or not die (until 30 people stacked on you)

This being able to kill someone simply by blocking is wrong.

And let me know what "just hold block" tanks wear sheer venom... a set that only procs by using an execute skill. You're arguing a different topic, go make your own thread.

As for a "look I'm a god video"... yeah some people can do that. Most can't and don't. Nerfs should never happen because of what 0.01% of the player base MIGHT do (without cheats). I'm not going to go into what a lot of the player base does WITH cheating...

Honestly, if you're in this thread saying how proc sets need nerfs... but aren't talking about how only a few sets got nerfed, and aren't even the ones that got the most complaints, you're the reason this stupidity went down.

The video is not a "look I'm a god" video, the video is literally show casing how OP sets like sheer venom are, the entire video the narrator is using sarcasm about how hard he is trying by JUST using light attacks and poison injection on a 27k health build in no CP (aka tank build). Clearly you didn't watch the video.

Ofcourse there are many more proc sets that need nerfing, I'm all with you on that one, but sheer venom was/is one of the worst offenders at enabling tank builds just like the video showed.

CaffeinatedMayhem

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

Did you read the post?

Did you?

Did I mention TANKS wearing Sheer Venom?

No I didn't.

This is about combating THEWS.
You know, a proc set that didn't get a 50% nerf.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

You seem to like arguing semantics. I'm looking for discussion.

ALso, I wear Sheer Venom on a 25k health stamden and DIE ALL THE TIME. A set doesn't make the person wearing it a "god" or not. At all.

Honestly, you're acting like 25k health in PvP is a lot... it's not. Try going up against a 90k health necro in bone goliath form. That's 50k not in form. THAT is what a high health tank is!

If you're in this thread talking about how normal builds are "tanky"... you're missing the point.

ZOS has clearly said they expect PvP build to be tanky! That's why we get 5k health with Battle spirit, why YET ANOTHER all armor set is being introduced (as if Fortified Brass wasn't enough?) AND... why the devs didn't nerf Thews.

The devs are saying they think the "everyone has so much health/health regen they can't be killed" is just fine and ok. A damage based build is NOT ok, thus we'll nerf any sets that could combat the super high health builds.

At this point, I'm about just only run my PvE Necro tank - with 5k health regen and be done with it.

Also, if your gripe is about stam builds that run 5k wep damage (which is really hard now after Fury got nerfed)... have you eer considered complaining not about that they do a lot of damage... but they are also unkillable WHILE doing that damage?

I have nothing against high damage builds, and not that much against "unkillable" builds. However, you should NOT be able to get both.
IMO, unkillable should never be a thing, but hey, I'm not a dev.

likecats

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

You're gonna have a bad time on the internet if you judge a video by its title. Clearly you haven't watched the video.
The player who made the video is using sarcasm to mock how OP proc sets (one of which is sheer venom) have become and how dumbed down the gameplay has become because of these sets. He's using a 27k tank build and ONLY using light attacks and poison injection, not even any ultimates to illustrate his point.

CaffeinatedMayhem

likecats wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

You're gonna have a bad time on the internet if you judge a video by its title. Clearly you haven't watched the video.
The player who made the video is using sarcasm to mock how OP proc sets (one of which is sheer venom) have become and how dumbed down the gameplay has become because of these sets. He's using a 27k tank build and ONLY using light attacks and poison injection, not even any ultimates to illustrate his point.

I guess people who defend OP sets like sheer venom won't really understand his sarcasm.

And you still didn't read MY post. I'm supposed to watch a video that you posted, but you can't read of actually respond to anything I'm saying. Yeah, that's call bait.

likecats

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

You're gonna have a bad time on the internet if you judge a video by its title. Clearly you haven't watched the video.
The player who made the video is using sarcasm to mock how OP proc sets (one of which is sheer venom) have become and how dumbed down the gameplay has become because of these sets. He's using a 27k tank build and ONLY using light attacks and poison injection, not even any ultimates to illustrate his point.

I guess people who defend OP sets like sheer venom won't really understand his sarcasm.

And you still didn't read MY post. I'm supposed to watch a video that you posted, but you can't read of actually respond to anything I'm saying. Yeah, that's call bait.

I already granted you my support on nerfs for any proc sets that you want to nerf. If I had it my way, I would nerf Thews like you want.
I'm just disagreeing with you on you defending sheer venom. All proc sets enable tank builds including sheer venom, primarily because they do not scale with your stats.

CaffeinatedMayhem

likecats wrote: »

I'm just disagreeing with you on you defending sheer venom. All proc sets enable tank builds including sheer venom, primarily because they do not scale with your stats.

Dude...

Which set am I complaining about? Thew of the Harbinger?

Do you know what it scales with? Heath.

It's not a proc set.

You aren't reading you're just blind with rage over Sheer Venom for no reason. Proc sets aren't the issue - it's scaling sets that ARE the issue.

universal_wrath

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

Did you read the post?

Did you?

Did I mention TANKS wearing Sheer Venom?

No I didn't.

This is about combating THEWS.
You know, a proc set that didn't get a 50% nerf.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

You seem to like arguing semantics. I'm looking for discussion.

ALso, I wear Sheer Venom on a 25k health stamden and DIE ALL THE TIME. A set doesn't make the person wearing it a "god" or not. At all.

Some tanks can use sheer venom too. If your idea of a tank is someone who is only hold block, then that is another problem. Some classes like stamdens can roll 40k+ HP and use other 3 proc sets, non of these sets is thew. Those guys don't hold block, in fact, use proper offensive combos like sub into dizzy....etc. you will almost never be able to kill them on your own and their heals are over the top. Some people are not even tanky but use a combo of proc sets to kill you if you are npt tanky or have anything below 25k HP. Thew sets is only a drop in a sea. Don't get tonal vision.

If you want a disscusion about thew set, you should have started with the title and and brought a good reasoning to nerf it. In my experience, block targets are the easiest to avoid, leave them to their useless selves because they cannot kill you if you don't fight them, instead, kill all of theur other teammates and make them watch. I should also probably point out that thews much weaker in comparison to bone shield which return 50% of damage in PvP while thew is 6% of max HP.

likecats

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

I'm just disagreeing with you on you defending sheer venom. All proc sets enable tank builds including sheer venom, primarily because they do not scale with your stats.

Dude...

Which set am I complaining about? Thew of the Harbinger?

Do you know what it scales with? Heath.

It's not a proc set.

You aren't reading you're just blind with rage over Sheer Venom for no reason. Proc sets aren't the issue - it's scaling sets that ARE the issue.

You literally called it [Thews of Harbinger] a proc set yourself lol. I will quote you:

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

This is about combating THEWS.
You know, a proc set that didn't get a 50% nerf.

Anyway, the key point you are not taking away is that all proc sets, including sheer venom scale best with tanky builds which includes building for health. A glass cannon 20k build will do as much damage with most proc sets as a 35k health tank will.
I wish you best of luck in your quest for getting w/e nerfs you want for thews, but I hope you do understand my point about proc sets in general.

relentless_turnip

I am by no means a fan of thews, but at least it has a proc condition outside of " do damage" or "take damage"...

I by no means want to fight someone who attacks you by blocking, but it is a lot better than someone who kills you just by pressing poison inject and activating 3 proc sets...

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

IAmIcehouse

It's not strong against just tanks.. it's strong against everyone. Arguably more against non-tanks, since its a more significant portion of your health pool.

It was nerfed because it is strong. Not because it was strong against something else that was strong. You're upset because a set you use got nerfed. That will happen almost every patch because people use the strongest sets. The strongest sets get nerfed.

Hews is strong and an extremely stupid set because it adds an "anti-fun" mechanic to the game that benefits no one. It's never helpful to have a hews block tank in a group (assuming open world). It's just a set for trolling. It should be reworked to have a cool down so it forces the user to have some sort of playstyle besides "hold block". Regardless, just because one set is overtuned, doesn't mean another set can't be. They can both be strong. And they are. And thank god sheer venom is being nerfed because everyone and their goldfish run this set.

Atherakhia

This is a bad faith argument. For starters, Sheer Venom was hardly nerfed to the point of obscurity like some other sets have been. It's still quite powerful and hardly diminished. Ask around and I'd wager the majority would tell you it hasn't been nerfed enough. Regardless, ZOS doesn't seem to play their game and they make balance decisions based on an Excel spreadsheet. Their spreadsheet clearly has a general DPS value they want their sets to deal and Sheer venom didn't meet it, thus the slight nerf. People who use Sheer Venom are not going to stop using Sheer venom because of this change and clearly the majority of people on the forums feel the state of the game is quite bad due to the shift to a proc meta.

Keep the nerfs coming or double down and start giving Mag sets that are worth complaining about.

dinokstrunz

Sheer Venom does nothing to a Harbinger tank, Sheer Venom wasn't nerfed enough and the same with other proc sets that are currently ruining no CP campaign. Harbinger deservers to go into the nerf bin too. I'd rather have 1 harbinger monkey harassing me then 4 to 7 sheer venom poison injection spammers from 20+ meters away poking me. Fix the game by hurting both of these awful sets, nerf the damage, add longer cooldowns or change the proc conditions, do something ZoS because PvP is absolute trash right now.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

If it's so good against tanks, imagine how strong it is against non tank players. That's why it got nerfed. It deserved it and the rest of the proc sets need nerfs too.

Um, it's the same damage either way. You can either out heal it or not. That's up to your build.

PvP should never be "I do all the damage and no one ever kills me." - never ever in any game.

ESO PvP was best when you could EITHER do damage, or not die (until 30 people stacked on you)

This being able to kill someone simply by blocking is wrong.

And let me know what "just hold block" tanks wear sheer venom... a set that only procs by using an execute skill. You're arguing a different topic, go make your own thread.

As for a "look I'm a god video"... yeah some people can do that. Most can't and don't. Nerfs should never happen because of what 0.01% of the player base MIGHT do (without cheats). I'm not going to go into what a lot of the player base does WITH cheating...

Honestly, if you're in this thread saying how proc sets need nerfs... but aren't talking about how only a few sets got nerfed, and aren't even the ones that got the most complaints, you're the reason this stupidity went down.

I agree that tank builds being able to kill while blocking is toxic but you missed the whole point of what I said. Youre saying I'm arguing a different topic but I'm not. You're saying the nerf wasnt justified but it was.

If the damage of a proc set can take out tanks who are built to survive, that means it would be even more powerful against an offensive build who's not as bulky.

This topic has been discussed over and over on these forums and the pro-proc players don't have a leg to stand on. You're arguments dissolve into "JuST hEaL iT oFF," but if you understood anything about the game you'd realize how toxic applying 5+ dots in 2 GCDs really is.

The buffs to proc sets were made to lower the skill gap so saying that only skilled players can do this is hilariously wrong. In the video he's literally using light attacks and 1 skill. If that's not accessibility I dont know what it is. You dont even need half a brain to excute it.

Also what cheating are you talking about?

Recapitated

Oh but by all means, nerf Thews as well. Everyone and their mom is going to have it ready for when Chaosball is no longer optional.

Waffennacht

A lot was said... But what I noticed about Sheer Venom:

One of the few stam proc sets that can be combined with Malacath (no crit requirement)
100% proc chance on both ranged and melee abilities

It, to me, was a more universal proc set and its interaction with Malacath is what makes me think it got targeted

Aznarb

Nerf Tank build, not proc set, just nerf the real problem.
Tank in pvp was a problem wayy before proc set get start to be used.

One_Bad_Bosmer

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I am by no means a fan of thews, but at least it has a proc condition outside of " do damage" or "take damage"...

I by no means want to fight someone who attacks you by blocking, but it is a lot better than someone who kills you just by pressing poison inject and activating 3 proc sets...

[snip]

^^This x100% haha. I have been saying this since this absolute nightmare of a patch dropped. Zos has made it so even a potato can slap on Venemous Smite, sheer venom and like balorghs on a stamblade and simply smash that super duper snipe button and get kills. Go figure.

[snip]

[edited for baiting/quit post]

OlumoGarbag

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

<a bunch of stuff that is not even remotely the point.

Did you read the post?

Did you?

Did I mention TANKS wearing Sheer Venom?

No I didn't.

This is about combating THEWS.
You know, a proc set that didn't get a 50% nerf.

ANd the Video is titled NB GOD... how was my comment not valid?

Dude take a break from the Forums you are getting that upset about a procset. If a set change makes you rage that much you were probably carried by the set. Sheer Venom was/is extremly overperforming if you like it or not.

FrankonPC

likecats wrote: »

People always insist on proc sets to fight tanks.

But proc sets are the #1 thing in this game that enable tank builds that can actually do damage.
Make procs scale with your stats (including crits), and 90% of tanks will stop playing tanks as they won't be able to do any damage with that 30k health in no cp.

Always this.

FrankonPC

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

I'm just disagreeing with you on you defending sheer venom. All proc sets enable tank builds including sheer venom, primarily because they do not scale with your stats.

Dude...

Which set am I complaining about? Thew of the Harbinger?

Do you know what it scales with? Heath.

It's not a proc set.

You aren't reading you're just blind with rage over Sheer Venom for no reason. Proc sets aren't the issue - it's scaling sets that ARE the issue.

sheer venom scales off of missing health.

There are a lot of proc sets that are currently able to be abused. Sheer isn't the only one, and you're somewhat right about thews. I've never personally died to a thews tank before because the minute they block, I stop attacking. Then I wait until they transform out of goliath and ult when they can't block. I put a lot of pressure on them at that point to where they can't typically recover due to the low resource pool. They're not in ultimate form, they die.

That's not to say it isn't problematic of course, because it is. Super tanks dishing out crazy damage is not a fun thing to fight. There's still too many builds out there that can abuse that kind of playstyle.

Imo, sheer could be adjusted further down, but other sets should be coming with it. Namely venomous smite, unleashed, etc.