Another Guild Trader topic - Sad state of affairs

ilovemycats

im not sure how this might play into this thread, but, when I switched from xbox NA to PC NA the guild dues I had to pay doubled in price. is this because there is more competition or inflation on the pc serer compared to xbox?

Dont_do_drugs

ilovemycats wrote: »

im not sure how this might play into this thread, but, when I switched from xbox NA to PC NA the guild dues I had to pay doubled in price. is this because there is more competition or inflation on the pc serer compared to xbox?

Pretty sure that availability of addons like mm, att, ags and lazy writ increase the trade activity and the ability to gain gold a lot.

DragonRacer

allhailskippy wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

I used to think like that till I found out I can make 5 times more money in a week in a capital trader than in a low end trader so the dues are worth it.

And this here is the real issue behind trader guilds and kiosk costs. 15k dues are common on PS4 NA. 15k/week dues * 500 members = 7,500,000 gold per week. Most top trade guilds are full on members, and are adamant about kicking those who have not paid dues. A lot of the trade guilds have 1 or more sister guilds to push beyond the max members per guild. That is a lot of gold to bid toward a trader each week. This is not including raffles, and other donations guilds receive. This hasn't even included the taxes for actually making sales. Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.

Membership fees are fine, but when the prices are high like this, it makes it that much harder for smaller guilds to even get their foot in the door with a trader. People will pay the 15k/week simply because if you have decent things to list, 15k is a drop in the bucket for what you could make. The whole guild trader system needs a rework.

And you left out the important bit. How much do the top trader slots cost? Cause I'm willing to bet it's more than 7.5M.

This ^^^

I run The PTK's, a donation-based trading guild and one of the strongest of that kind. Truly, purely donation-based - not "donations suggested/required or you'll be removed" and no weekly dues. Not potentially fed by or supported by multiple "sister" or baby/feeder guilds. Just an independent standing alone doing our thing.

Because we have awesome in-guild auctions, raffles, generous donors, and solid money management (i.e. don't try to overly outspend on trader spots what you know you can bring back in weekly to keep bank balance going for 10 bids), we have bankroll that we sometimes will go for a capital trader if our fundraising has been extra for a few weeks. I know exactly what bid amounts have won and lost.

You are bidding close to 20+ million if you want to even try and compete with the 15k weekly dues guilds, and they are there in those capitals every. Single. Week. And that's just ONE bid. If you want to make backup bids in case your primary fails, that's even more money needed on-hand to put on the backups (yes, you get refunded the losing/unneeded bids after, but you must have ALL gold up front to place all bids, period).

I don't necessarily say that in their defense. But they very much DO have to make more money than just off their dues to try and hold those kind of expensive trader spots. There's some practices I and others suspect them of, but I don't think any of those GMs are personally pocketing gobs of gold made off their members because they need those dues/raffle tickets/auctions/donations/anything made in sales tax just to bid again in a capital the next week.

I really, really, really wish a lot of the "GMs/officers are stealing/hoarding guild gold" accusers would actually... oh, I dunno, be a bidding officer or GM of a guild or multiple guilds over time (to preclude one guild being a bad egg that somehow paints the whole bunch in their eyes) and see from the inside what the money transactions actually look like and the challenges of keeping a trader.

Dont_do_drugs

I don't want to look like an attention w.... But since I know, that a lot of people tend to read an initial post and then answer, without reading the rest of a thread or otger comments, I wanted to bring up the tax and the location issue together with other thoughts on the guild system as standalone. I do not ask for agrees, but definitely for feedback, constructive discussion and hopefully to get also zos attention towards trading related issues as well as some thoughts, as example the impact of inflation and overly trade activity, centralizing of trade activities to a few hubs might be a thing which can be addressed and would have a positive effect on performance as well - as argument for addressing trade guild topics. I know it's a lot of text from a non English native speaker, but - tbh I am quite annoyed by people repeatingly asking for more traders while not even checking, who they are competing against and by that guessing, there would be "too many trade guilds and too few spots".

V

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549987/the-influence-of-ingame-inflation-on-server-stability-and-performance-of-social-aspects

Diminish

DragonRacer wrote: »

...
...
You are bidding close to 20+ million if you want to even try and compete with the 15k weekly dues guilds, and they are there in those capitals every. Single. Week. And that's just ONE bid. If you want to make backup bids in case your primary fails, that's even more money needed on-hand to put on the backups (yes, you get refunded the losing/unneeded bids after, but you must have ALL gold up front to place all bids, period).
...
...

I've left out the non-important parts, and made the most important part bold. You tried to disagree with me by agreeing with skippy, when in turn you essentially said the same exact thing I did As I stated before, the real issue is the fact that people are willing to pay 15k week dues. This, on top of sales, raffles, donations, etc. provides way too much gold for the guild to be able to bid that much every week. So, now you and skippy can go back and read my previous post if you'd like. The guild trader system is archaic, and worked early on. It is in dire need of a rework or scrapped all together and replaced with something else at this point in the games life.

Xebov

There are currently ~200 Guild Traders in the game.

The problem around them:
1.) Most guilds battle on the guild traders in "good" (high traffic) spots.
2.) Many "Trader" players are in more than 1 trading guild due to 30 slot restrictions.
3.) Many small "Community" Guilds think they need a trader too for their 20 active players.

These issues could partially solved:
1.) Move traders from off sites into the hubs.
2.) Increase the trading slots to remove the need for more than one trading guild.
3.) Change the rule from 50 Players to 50 players active in the last 7 days.

This could make distribution and availability a bit better.

DragonRacer

Diminish wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

...
...
You are bidding close to 20+ million if you want to even try and compete with the 15k weekly dues guilds, and they are there in those capitals every. Single. Week. And that's just ONE bid. If you want to make backup bids in case your primary fails, that's even more money needed on-hand to put on the backups (yes, you get refunded the losing/unneeded bids after, but you must have ALL gold up front to place all bids, period).
...
...

I've left out the non-important parts, and made the most important part bold. You tried to disagree with me by agreeing with skippy, when in turn you essentially said the same exact thing I did As I stated before, the real issue is the fact that people are willing to pay 15k week dues. This, on top of sales, raffles, donations, etc. provides way too much gold for the guild to be able to bid that much every week. So, now you and skippy can go back and read my previous post if you'd like. The guild trader system is archaic, and worked early on. It is in dire need of a rework or scrapped all together and replaced with something else at this point in the games life.

The part of your post I disagreed with and piggybacked off skippy’s post was this: “Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.”

It implies that such guilds are making so much money that they are, on top of making up to 10 weekly trader bids, also personally pocketing money.

If that wasn’t what you were implying, then I misread.

But that sure is how your post read and I was TRYING to explain that if a guild is attempting to place 20+ mil bids, then that 7.5 mil of weekly dues doesn’t cut it. Hence raffles, auctions, seeking extra donations, etc to get up enough money to bid in capitals. In that case, please explain how you arrived at the conclusion that they make enough for folks to personally pocket as well?

Without a cutesy, smart aleck attitude, preferably.

(I don’t disagree that weekly dues and the bid inflation they bring is an issue because it is. But that wasn’t what my post was addressing. Maybe you should try re-reading mine as well. ).

kojou

I would like to see them revisit the most popular areas of the game by adding more traders. I am sure they have (or can get) statistics on which Way-shrines are the most traveled to.

In real life if an area becomes popular for trade then more kiosks are opened up in that area, so why not in game? I would love to see the density of traders increase organically. To me that would be quite immersive if popular areas became larger and larger trade centers.

It would still be just as big if not a bigger gold sink as more traders would spend gold to get in the most popular places and open up spots in the less popular places for the "little guys"... at least that is how I predict it would go.

I'm not sure I would support showing bids though... that would lead to a lot more trader sniping which would be more of a hassle than a help.

volkeswagon

allhailskippy wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

I used to think like that till I found out I can make 5 times more money in a week in a capital trader than in a low end trader so the dues are worth it.

And this here is the real issue behind trader guilds and kiosk costs. 15k dues are common on PS4 NA. 15k/week dues * 500 members = 7,500,000 gold per week. Most top trade guilds are full on members, and are adamant about kicking those who have not paid dues. A lot of the trade guilds have 1 or more sister guilds to push beyond the max members per guild. That is a lot of gold to bid toward a trader each week. This is not including raffles, and other donations guilds receive. This hasn't even included the taxes for actually making sales. Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.

Membership fees are fine, but when the prices are high like this, it makes it that much harder for smaller guilds to even get their foot in the door with a trader. People will pay the 15k/week simply because if you have decent things to list, 15k is a drop in the bucket for what you could make. The whole guild trader system needs a rework.

And you left out the important bit. How much do the top trader slots cost? Cause I'm willing to bet it's more than 7.5M.

12-15 million for capital traders. Having run a guild I do know how hard it is to get a trader. 10-15k for dues is nothing to me because that allows me to make much more gold. I do think the whole system is bad. Doubling the amount of traders would help. Even if some stay empty as result who cares

EdmondDontes

The multi bidding system is a train wreck, no question about that.

But moreover, everything people use regularly in game is going up radically in cost. Gold mats now cost nearly double what they did just six months ago. Any ingredient for alchemy that is used regularly is up to 75k/stack, and on and on.

Something is going haywire with the ESO economy on numerous levels.

EdmondDontes

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

I was an officer in a trading guild for a very long time and honestly I really just hate everything about the trading guild scene.

- Alliances are still a massive issue

- The amount of gms and officers that will bleed members for every donation they can while at the same time taking the majority of that for themselves is shockingly high.

- Member loyalty to a trading guild is actively discouraged. Not that you really want to anyway, there fairly toxic. However If you dont have anything to sell that week or if they dont get a trader then really you should just bounce. Your wasting the fee and just bleeding money.

- Fees and donations are ridiculously high, again also probably to more effectively steal from you.

-Barrier to entry is super high for new guilds. Unless they join an alliance who will literally tell them where to bid, what to bid and will probably actively screw them over for there own benefit regardless.

This may be your opinion, but having been an officer myself in multiple trading guilds for many years, and knowing many high end trading guilds, what you say here is complete nonsense. Trading guild officers who are serious do not pocket money for themselves. In all my time I've never even heard of this happening in any respectable guild. Fees and donations are not ridiculously high, but then again I don't know what you consider as such.

Sounds like you got burned bad in your corrupt trading guild and assume it's the same everywhere else.

Keep in mind we also maybe on different servers.

I know at least ps4 na, many of the top trading guilds in mournhold and wayrest (Location does change a bit more not than it use too) are ripping off members. Fees are about 15k a week, personally I would say thats high. I know at least one instance where one of the top alliance leaders were giving there guild and select others better spots for lower bids when it was supposed to be based on how much you could bid that week.

major trade guilds on PC require 20-25k weekly donation and 200-400k sales minimums.

Dont_do_drugs

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The multi bidding system is a train wreck, no question about that.

But moreover, everything people use regularly in game is going up radically in cost. Gold mats now cost nearly double what they did just six months ago. Any ingredient for alchemy that is used regularly is up to 75k/stack, and on and on.

Something is going haywire with the ESO economy on numerous levels.

they still do cost half of what they did 4 years ago, while having much more of them listed and people in average owning way more gold than back then.

EdmondDontes

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The multi bidding system is a train wreck, no question about that.

But moreover, everything people use regularly in game is going up radically in cost. Gold mats now cost nearly double what they did just six months ago. Any ingredient for alchemy that is used regularly is up to 75k/stack, and on and on.

Something is going haywire with the ESO economy on numerous levels.

they still do cost half of what they did 4 years ago, while having much more of them listed and people in average owning way more gold than back then.

Sorry, the statement I am quoting is not factually accurate. I've been on since release, and prices have never been anywhere near what they are now. Never. Not on the North American PC server they haven't.

wolfie1.0.

FloydStash wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

Not completely true. With there being a finite amount of traders, for them to succeed somebody else like them would need to fail.

I would like to see sales slots expanded. Let people put up more per account. This would help remove the need for so many of the upper trading guilds to lean on ult accounts and alternate guilds taking up spots. Thereby allowing a bit more room for other small, new guilds looking to get in.

Adding new traders per location would be handy too, but careful not to overdue it. This is one of the few constant money sinks removing gold from the market, and inflation in this game is ridiculous!

This of course would be with the assumption that the games code would allow for any of this, as the trader system is hard coded into the engine itself.

I agree with much of this.

Also by reading all the previous posts maybe an idea is to give the high traffic traders more selling slots per individual of that guild. And have lesser traders spread all over tamriel in interesting locations that offer fewer selling slots per ^.

This would atleast, hopefully?, seperate the big corporations from the entrepreneurs a bit.

making indivual guild selling slots based on traffic volume wouldn't work well as it would encourage tatics such as listing a bunch of items for 1 gold and then having someone spam buy it rinse and repeat until you get the required slots unlocked. it wouldn't work.

Also i would add that for the gold sink to work effectively there needs to be good trading locations as well as bad ones, otherwise it removes the competing nature of the gold sink. There should be more traders out there though, in both good and bad spots. just increasing the number by 1 at every existing spot would go a long way. that would add what 30 to 40 spots? whereas we normally only get 11-12 a year?

wolfie1.0.

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i just wonder how people couldalso come aorund as if they owuldnt get a spot in a good trading guild. just been on guild finder first time in ages and checking listed known trading guilds there. i am actually very very shocked how low on active members even popular trading guilds are these days, and next to that also a lot of guilds with medium ranged spots and lower requirements. this is crazy. i never saw something like that... i mean really mega popular guilds with 350 or 400 members only wtf....

ZOS isn't exactly clear on what constitutes active. In the case of successful traders, there are guilds where less than half of their players are listing items and they still get their traders every week and individuals profit, all without having dues.

wolfie1.0.

Ecileh71 wrote: »

I played ESO for 3 years before I joined a guild. Never had a ton of money in the bank...but never needed to, either.

Then I joined a prosperous Trade Guild and started making money and that was fun, but I wound up with a lot of gold and not a lot to spend it on. So I bought a house and furnished it. And then I donated $2M back to the guild because...what was I going to do with it, really?

That guild folded when the GM left the game about a year ago. (Well, it's actually still in existence and I am still a member, but no more traders.) The sister guild was given to another GM who runs an alliance and it took me less than 3 days to decide the new leadership and rules were not for me, so I left. They still have a spot in Mournhold every week, clearly they are for many others.

Now I am in in one guild with a trader (as opposed to a Trading Guild) and I once again find myself with more gold than I really know what to do with. And I am not grinding for mats or motifs or other items to sell. I farm mats when bored or when waiting for a PUG to form, but that's about it. I am seriously considering furnishing the new house in Skyrim because...what else am I going to spend this gold on?

I once saw someone giving away $1M in Vvardenfell zone chat if another player could find where he was hiding. I am almost at that point--where I am willing to just give gold away because....why not?

So...I guess my question is...what do you folks spend your gold on that makes the trading guilds so critical? I feel like I MUST be missing something. Which is not to say that I don't think there should be improvements to the system in-game...just that we have lots of threads about this topic and clearly it's important to people but I just don't understand what others spend gold on that makes it so necessary. Is there some vendor somewhere that sells AMAZING THINGS that I don't know about, but desperately need?

i have two goals with trading. the first is to simply get and maintain enough resources so that i can be fully self sufficient. 2) I love trading, trading in ESO for me is.... well its like PVP or Endgame trials for other people. Its fun, its challenging, its dynamic, etc.

Dont_do_drugs

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The multi bidding system is a train wreck, no question about that.

But moreover, everything people use regularly in game is going up radically in cost. Gold mats now cost nearly double what they did just six months ago. Any ingredient for alchemy that is used regularly is up to 75k/stack, and on and on.

Something is going haywire with the ESO economy on numerous levels.

they still do cost half of what they did 4 years ago, while having much more of them listed and people in average owning way more gold than back then.

Sorry, the statement I am quoting is not factually accurate. I've been on since release, and prices have never been anywhere near what they are now. Never. Not on the North American PC server they haven't.

It's okay that these things cost tho. Still doubt that those prices result from guild system. I don't even see how this could correlate except for if most active guilds got outbid by empties and the access to these items is limited by that.

JKorr

Diminish wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

I used to think like that till I found out I can make 5 times more money in a week in a capital trader than in a low end trader so the dues are worth it.

And this here is the real issue behind trader guilds and kiosk costs. 15k dues are common on PS4 NA. 15k/week dues * 500 members = 7,500,000 gold per week. Most top trade guilds are full on members, and are adamant about kicking those who have not paid dues. A lot of the trade guilds have 1 or more sister guilds to push beyond the max members per guild. That is a lot of gold to bid toward a trader each week. This is not including raffles, and other donations guilds receive. This hasn't even included the taxes for actually making sales. Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.

Membership fees are fine, but when the prices are high like this, it makes it that much harder for smaller guilds to even get their foot in the door with a trader. People will pay the 15k/week simply because if you have decent things to list, 15k is a drop in the bucket for what you could make. The whole guild trader system needs a rework.

The last big "guilds are just scamming people and gms are rolling in gold and we're gonna prove it" thread happened when a group of people got together, made fake guilds, and won all the traders in Rawl'kha. They claimed they won the bids for 7 million or less. One gm got fed up with the constant lying, so posted their LOSING bid. The LOSING bid was 22,568,941 gold.
Twenty two million, five hundred sixty eight thousand, nine hundred and forty one gold for a LOSING bid. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072752/#Comment_6072752

Using your numbers above, compared to an actual GM bid, how, exactly, is anyone in trading guilds "making out like a bandit"?

Dont_do_drugs

JKorr wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

I used to think like that till I found out I can make 5 times more money in a week in a capital trader than in a low end trader so the dues are worth it.

And this here is the real issue behind trader guilds and kiosk costs. 15k dues are common on PS4 NA. 15k/week dues * 500 members = 7,500,000 gold per week. Most top trade guilds are full on members, and are adamant about kicking those who have not paid dues. A lot of the trade guilds have 1 or more sister guilds to push beyond the max members per guild. That is a lot of gold to bid toward a trader each week. This is not including raffles, and other donations guilds receive. This hasn't even included the taxes for actually making sales. Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.

Membership fees are fine, but when the prices are high like this, it makes it that much harder for smaller guilds to even get their foot in the door with a trader. People will pay the 15k/week simply because if you have decent things to list, 15k is a drop in the bucket for what you could make. The whole guild trader system needs a rework.

The last big "guilds are just scamming people and gms are rolling in gold and we're gonna prove it" thread happened when a group of people got together, made fake guilds, and won all the traders in Rawl'kha. They claimed they won the bids for 7 million or less. One gm got fed up with the constant lying, so posted their LOSING bid. The LOSING bid was 22,568,941 gold.
Twenty two million, five hundred sixty eight thousand, nine hundred and forty one gold for a LOSING bid. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072752/#Comment_6072752

Using your numbers above, compared to an actual GM bid, how, exactly, is anyone in trading guilds "making out like a bandit"?

this is funny, we on pc eu did actually lowball bids in the top hubs quite a lot - just usually not on the weeks after a big update *g

JKorr

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

I used to think like that till I found out I can make 5 times more money in a week in a capital trader than in a low end trader so the dues are worth it.

And this here is the real issue behind trader guilds and kiosk costs. 15k dues are common on PS4 NA. 15k/week dues * 500 members = 7,500,000 gold per week. Most top trade guilds are full on members, and are adamant about kicking those who have not paid dues. A lot of the trade guilds have 1 or more sister guilds to push beyond the max members per guild. That is a lot of gold to bid toward a trader each week. This is not including raffles, and other donations guilds receive. This hasn't even included the taxes for actually making sales. Even with exorbitant amounts bid for kiosks, someone in these guilds is making out like a bandit.

Membership fees are fine, but when the prices are high like this, it makes it that much harder for smaller guilds to even get their foot in the door with a trader. People will pay the 15k/week simply because if you have decent things to list, 15k is a drop in the bucket for what you could make. The whole guild trader system needs a rework.

The last big "guilds are just scamming people and gms are rolling in gold and we're gonna prove it" thread happened when a group of people got together, made fake guilds, and won all the traders in Rawl'kha. They claimed they won the bids for 7 million or less. One gm got fed up with the constant lying, so posted their LOSING bid. The LOSING bid was 22,568,941 gold.
Twenty two million, five hundred sixty eight thousand, nine hundred and forty one gold for a LOSING bid. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6072752/#Comment_6072752

Using your numbers above, compared to an actual GM bid, how, exactly, is anyone in trading guilds "making out like a bandit"?

this is funny, we on pc eu did actually lowball bids in the top hubs quite a lot - just usually not on the weeks after a big update *g

I would hope you actually had inventory to sell when you did that though. These people made up guild names to get their point across or something. They also sold items at very inflated prices. If they really were "looking out for the little guy" shouldn't they have had a lot of inventory for sale at prices way under the guilds they replaced?

Going clockwise from the shrine, the guilds (and the items on the guild traders that are for sale - Ruby for Repudiate, Isinglass for Infiltration, Obsidian for Overthrow, Ta for Treachery, and Starmetal for Sabotaged) spell out "Riots"

Dont_do_drugs

I would hope you actually had inventory to sell when you did that though.

I am talking about the top guilds PC EU before multibid, not as "we" in some random empty troll guilds. But thats the issue with these forums. People dont read whole threads, else you would have recognized, that i do hate empty guilds a lot.

FloydStash

my issue

FloydStash

https://imgur.com/gegJbk2

wtf idk why i can't post images using the tools from this own forum.

chess1ukb16_ESO

FloydStash wrote: »

https://imgur.com/gegJbk2

wtf idk why i can't post images using the tools from this own forum.

Wow!! That Player who wrote the message you screenshot must really be good

FloydStash

chess1ukb16_ESO wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

https://imgur.com/gegJbk2

wtf idk why i can't post images using the tools from this own forum.

Wow!! That Player who wrote the message you screenshot must really be good

am i against it? no, in fact i even admire his/their persistance to get where they got
but is it a fine example of the reason why smaller guilds stand no chance of entering the market in a sustainable way? i like to think so.

Dont_do_drugs

FloydStash wrote: »

chess1ukb16_ESO wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

https://imgur.com/gegJbk2

wtf idk why i can't post images using the tools from this own forum.

Wow!! That Player who wrote the message you screenshot must really be good

am i against it? no, in fact i even admire his/their persistance to get where they got
but is it a fine example of the reason why smaller guilds stand no chance of entering the market in a sustainable way? i like to think so.

How come you think, that he is the reason that new smaller guild stand no chance? I am prepared for a lot of mimimi without a substantial base, so please go on....

FloydStash

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

How come you think, that he is the reason that new smaller guild stand no chance? I am prepared for a lot of mimimi without a substantial base, so please go on....

is he THE reason? no.
Is he part of a reason? i to think so.
Why do you personally believe he is not part of a reason that smaller guilds stand no chance to enter the market in a sustainable way? I'd much rather see that explained as my earlier statement is obvious beyond measure.
Or were you just here for the mimimi's? i'm assuming you were.

Dont_do_drugs

i already explained it multiple times, you just need to read the thread. i even explained it in an own thread. the problem is - since years meanwhile - people dont want to read it. they want to open another thread qqing about how there wouldnt be enough traders and we would need more traders instead of facing the real problems of the trade guilds situation.

he or guilds like his cant be your problem after all, because he is bidding spots, which arent even related to those spots occupied by "starter guilds". not even the guilds he may outbid would be backupping on the spots those "starter guilds" bid one, so they arent even confronted with backup ripple down effect a lot. those guilds starter guilds are fighting with arent those biggies, its random empty trash guilds with gm feeding their empty social guilds with their own donations, how can he be or me or anyone of us be the source of this problem?