Another Guild Trader topic - Sad state of affairs

FloydStash

Hello.

I'd like to express my frustration with how hard/expensive it has become to get a guild trader.
It's simply too expensive for new trader guilds to get into the trading business because we have to lay down nearly 5 million per week in order to secure a trader.
And because of the fact that we cannot see wether we will win a bid or not, the result is that my guild hasn't had a trader for several weeks.
This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

Zenimax this has to change. NOW!
- No more *** reasons. just change it now. release 1000 more guild traders spread over tamriel, or make the bidding system publicly viewable.

agegarton

More trade kiosks in busy areas would help - and I'd like to see that - but it won't completely solve the problem. In my view, we'd need a raft of options to water down the current situation.

1. More kiosks.
2. Allow people to have more than 5 guilds.
3. Improve guild management tools, including roster management, member communication, and trader tools.
4. Carefully consider the set-up on new zones. Any zone which is close by to crafting, writ hand-in, and banking will be busy and that means good trade, and expensive kiosk costs. The more obstacles in the way of crafting writs, for example placing crafting tables behind loading screens (doors) will reduce footfall (see Vivec City vs Solitude, for example).

This all said, I don't expect that ZoS will be interested I'm afraid. Guild traders are a fantastic gold sink in the game, taking gold out of circulation in huge amounts and regularly. I would love to be proven wrong - I personally take the view that Guilds (and trade guilds in particular) are the real backbone of the game and they have been ignored for far too long.

Taleof2Cities

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

It's not about working harder, @Floyd_Stash ... it's about working smarter.

What other events can the guild hold to raise money for the guild?

Farming or Fishing events to sell raw mats on the trader?

Are you doing any raffles?


The trader bid system is working fine ... looks like you have some more organizing and delegating to do within your guild.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

OsManiaC

Unfortunately, that was what we told before implementing u23 - multi bidding. And ZOS did not even check our feedbacks. With all the guild management issues around, someone managed to make the "QUALITY OF LIFE" update - and I called out the person make one (1) logical answer for his/her motivation but that "guild represents" hide

you cannot win either if you increase your bids, because you will be pwnd by big guilds who has been fighting with each other. And guess what? LOSER gots your spot.

Also, no casual guild can grow while they losing outlaws spots 750k+ . If anyone reads this and tries to make a guild. STOP NOW!

Increasing kiosks was great idea and suggestion before but.. as you see this is ZOS. In morrowind there are 3 towns that have kiosks, in summerset there are 3 towns that have kiosks. Elsweyr? OFCOURSE 1 town whole chapter, SKYRIM? OFCOURSE NOT

Lots of good - and best imho - guilds disbanded since u23 -quality of life. Lots implemented additional "fee" because of the ridiculous price increase. ( The spots I bid 2 years ago gone 4x now)

You only have two options;

• a) Accept the facts that ZOS won't care about guild stuff - and try to find yourself a spot in this system. (That's what I did)
• b) forget guild stuff - disband and just join another good guild and watch the GM dying every day.

volkeswagon

I agree. Too many guilds want traders. Often I have said if I could have just one more guild slot things would be much better. I often leave guilds I don't want to to join another. I feel like 6 guilds is a good balanced number. As for traders they really should add a second merchant to each stall in the larger cities. And more khajiiti merchants eating apples

kargen27

volkeswagon wrote: »

I agree. Too many guilds want traders. Often I have said if I could have just one more guild slot things would be much better. I often leave guilds I don't want to to join another. I feel like 6 guilds is a good balanced number. As for traders they really should add a second merchant to each stall in the larger cities.

I would prefer they add additional traders out in the boonies. Put a 2nd trader by all those single traders we find near wayshrines and in thieves dens. That way there is more incentive to visit those traders. The high traffic areas are fine with the number of traders they offer. Keeping a trader in those areas is the end game for trade guilds and grabbing a trader there should be competitive.

BigBragg

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

Not completely true. With there being a finite amount of traders, for them to succeed somebody else like them would need to fail.

I would like to see sales slots expanded. Let people put up more per account. This would help remove the need for so many of the upper trading guilds to lean on ult accounts and alternate guilds taking up spots. Thereby allowing a bit more room for other small, new guilds looking to get in.

Adding new traders per location would be handy too, but careful not to overdue it. This is one of the few constant money sinks removing gold from the market, and inflation in this game is ridiculous!

This of course would be with the assumption that the games code would allow for any of this, as the trader system is hard coded into the engine itself.

FloydStash

BigBragg wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

Not completely true. With there being a finite amount of traders, for them to succeed somebody else like them would need to fail.

I would like to see sales slots expanded. Let people put up more per account. This would help remove the need for so many of the upper trading guilds to lean on ult accounts and alternate guilds taking up spots. Thereby allowing a bit more room for other small, new guilds looking to get in.

Adding new traders per location would be handy too, but careful not to overdue it. This is one of the few constant money sinks removing gold from the market, and inflation in this game is ridiculous!

This of course would be with the assumption that the games code would allow for any of this, as the trader system is hard coded into the engine itself.

I agree with much of this.

Also by reading all the previous posts maybe an idea is to give the high traffic traders more selling slots per individual of that guild. And have lesser traders spread all over tamriel in interesting locations that offer fewer selling slots per ^.

This would atleast, hopefully?, seperate the big corporations from the entrepreneurs a bit.

barney2525

FloydStash wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

Not completely true. With there being a finite amount of traders, for them to succeed somebody else like them would need to fail.

I would like to see sales slots expanded. Let people put up more per account. This would help remove the need for so many of the upper trading guilds to lean on ult accounts and alternate guilds taking up spots. Thereby allowing a bit more room for other small, new guilds looking to get in.

Adding new traders per location would be handy too, but careful not to overdue it. This is one of the few constant money sinks removing gold from the market, and inflation in this game is ridiculous!

This of course would be with the assumption that the games code would allow for any of this, as the trader system is hard coded into the engine itself.

I agree with much of this.

Also by reading all the previous posts maybe an idea is to give the high traffic traders more selling slots per individual of that guild. And have lesser traders spread all over tamriel in interesting locations that offer fewer selling slots per ^.

This would atleast, hopefully?, seperate the big corporations from the entrepreneurs a bit.

So if you get a high traffic trader, your guildies can list, for example, 50 items? And a " lesser " trader the guildies could list, for example, 20 items ?

So your goal is to make sure NO New Trader guilds are formed ... and to implement a Class system into the Guild trader System ?

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, so let's make SURE they keep those locations by allowing Their people to sell more items. AND let's make it as hard as we possibly can for smaller or new Guilds to grow, buy Reducing the number of items their players can sell.

wtf ?

MasterSpatula

Another way of looking at this is fewer Trade Guilds means less competition for the Traders and lower Trader costs.

FloydStash

barney2525 wrote: »

So if you get a high traffic trader, your guildies can list, for example, 50 items? And a " lesser " trader the guildies could list, for example, 20 items ?

So your goal is to make sure NO New Trader guilds are formed ... and to implement a Class system into the Guild trader System ?

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, so let's make SURE they keep those locations by allowing Their people to sell more items. AND let's make it as hard as we possibly can for smaller or new Guilds to grow, buy Reducing the number of items their players can sell.

wtf ?

My goal, is obviously that new trader guilds can have a better chance at entry level trading by allowing them access to small.
There has to be incentive for the larger guilds to want to pick a hotspot over a lesser spot.

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, yes.. that's how the world works.
The problem right now is the biggest corporations make several guilds and tap as many locations as they can knocking smaller guilds out of the ballpark with their near billion gold in funds.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Another way of looking at this is fewer Trade Guilds means less competition for the Traders and lower Trader costs.

Competition amongst traders leads to profitable situations for customers, and in the trading business the customer is central.

GrimTheReaper45

I was an officer in a trading guild for a very long time and honestly I really just hate everything about the trading guild scene.

- Alliances are still a massive issue

- The amount of gms and officers that will bleed members for every donation they can while at the same time taking the majority of that for themselves is shockingly high.

- Member loyalty to a trading guild is actively discouraged. Not that you really want to anyway, there fairly toxic. However If you dont have anything to sell that week or if they dont get a trader then really you should just bounce. Your wasting the fee and just bleeding money.

- Fees and donations are ridiculously high, again also probably to more effectively steal from you.

-Barrier to entry is super high for new guilds. Unless they join an alliance who will literally tell them where to bid, what to bid and will probably actively screw them over for there own benefit regardless.

etchedpixels

Given they can't magic up new trading locations I'd like to see all the travelling merchants getting a trading guild too. Would fix a lot of the problem and provide some variety and chances to randomly interact with all kinds of guild sales.

pelle412

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

I was an officer in a trading guild for a very long time and honestly I really just hate everything about the trading guild scene.

- Alliances are still a massive issue

- The amount of gms and officers that will bleed members for every donation they can while at the same time taking the majority of that for themselves is shockingly high.

- Member loyalty to a trading guild is actively discouraged. Not that you really want to anyway, there fairly toxic. However If you dont have anything to sell that week or if they dont get a trader then really you should just bounce. Your wasting the fee and just bleeding money.

- Fees and donations are ridiculously high, again also probably to more effectively steal from you.

-Barrier to entry is super high for new guilds. Unless they join an alliance who will literally tell them where to bid, what to bid and will probably actively screw them over for there own benefit regardless.

This may be your opinion, but having been an officer myself in multiple trading guilds for many years, and knowing many high end trading guilds, what you say here is complete nonsense. Trading guild officers who are serious do not pocket money for themselves. In all my time I've never even heard of this happening in any respectable guild. Fees and donations are not ridiculously high, but then again I don't know what you consider as such.

Sounds like you got burned bad in your corrupt trading guild and assume it's the same everywhere else.

Taleof2Cities

FloydStash wrote: »

My goal, is obviously that new trader guilds can have a better chance at entry level trading by allowing them access to small.
There has to be incentive for the larger guilds to want to pick a hotspot over a lesser spot.

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, yes.. that's how the world works.
The problem right now is the biggest corporations make several guilds and tap as many locations as they can knocking smaller guilds out of the ballpark with their near billion gold in funds.

Do you have in-game data that you can share showing how widespread this issue of "guild stacking" is, @Floyd_Stash?

Because without some sort of in-game proof that it's breaking the game, this is pretty much just conjecture.

Remember that when you lose your bid you don't lose the gold that was paid for the bid itself.

volkeswagon

Having 50 slots per guildy would definitely alleviate my need for 3 capital trading guilds as I could make due with 2 which means I don't have to leave one of my social guilds However if they increase slots it would have to be across the board otherwise it would create issues when moving from a capital location to a smaller one. Since there is stiff competition for capital traders it only makes sense to increase the amount of traders there before you increase ones in the middle of nowhere, especially since from my experience it's often not worth my time to shop the boony's because it's mostly slim pickings in terms of listings. Before when treasure maps were worth buying I used to but not anymore.

Dusk_Coven

They won't even fix the no-trader-hired bug and you're asking for more?
Might as well go all the way and ask for a global auction house and get rid of the kiosk system.
The existing kiosks can be fixed searches of the auction house based on what the kiosks looks like it is selling.

MasterSpatula

FloydStash wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Another way of looking at this is fewer Trade Guilds means less competition for the Traders and lower Trader costs.

Competition amongst traders leads to profitable situations for customers, and in the trading business the customer is central.

So passing along the preposterously-high costs of Traders to consumers is in the consumers' interest?

idk

I was in one of the top trade guilds the first year this game was out. They were in the best city, and we did well. The leader worked hard to build up that guild and made it to the best city, and it prospered. Unfortunatly he left the game, and those that took over the reins did not keep up with the times. One of their biggest mistakes was not moving when that location died, and other locations started thriving.

One of their assistant leads was a fixture in these forums complaining that they were not doing well and wanted Zos to change things to make it easier.

Zos did not change things to help them. However, that same guild somehow survived years in the shadows but finally got leadership that was able to turn things around and brought the guild back to its former glory through hard work and dedication.

The guild is once again in one of the top cities, not because Zos made things easier but because they had leaders with vision and the drive to make it happen.

idk

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

I was an officer in a trading guild for a very long time and honestly I really just hate everything about the trading guild scene.

- Alliances are still a massive issue

- The amount of gms and officers that will bleed members for every donation they can while at the same time taking the majority of that for themselves is shockingly high.

- Member loyalty to a trading guild is actively discouraged. Not that you really want to anyway, there fairly toxic. However If you dont have anything to sell that week or if they dont get a trader then really you should just bounce. Your wasting the fee and just bleeding money.

- Fees and donations are ridiculously high, again also probably to more effectively steal from you.

-Barrier to entry is super high for new guilds. Unless they join an alliance who will literally tell them where to bid, what to bid and will probably actively screw them over for there own benefit regardless.

Odd as I have never been in a trading guild that was toxic or felt that they were trying to bleed money from me by any measure. In fact, the trade guild I have been in for most of the six years I have been in the game has members that have been loyal to it for all these years.

Granted, I realize some trade guilds, like any guilds, are poorly run and that seems to be the case with the one you are talking about.

PizzaCat82

I don't mind if guilds have raffles and auctions but I will never participate in them.

FrancisCrawford

On PC/NA, my trading guild experiences have all been on the good-to-neutral spectrum. "Neutral" is when an overworked GM is careless in how he treats particular members (or small groups of members). Others have been a lot better than that. Currently I'm in three of the top trading guilds on the server, and I have nothing but good feelings about the one I dropped when minimums/weekly fees first came around. I also don't recall any kind of suffering when other guilds couldn't keep up and just withered away.

I even briefly ran a trading guild, back in the days when you could get a location in the Hollow City or Skywatch for under 10K per week. We only had two active members, but the bids were still worth it.

JKorr

FloydStash wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

So if you get a high traffic trader, your guildies can list, for example, 50 items? And a " lesser " trader the guildies could list, for example, 20 items ?

So your goal is to make sure NO New Trader guilds are formed ... and to implement a Class system into the Guild trader System ?

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, so let's make SURE they keep those locations by allowing Their people to sell more items. AND let's make it as hard as we possibly can for smaller or new Guilds to grow, buy Reducing the number of items their players can sell.

wtf ?

My goal, is obviously that new trader guilds can have a better chance at entry level trading by allowing them access to small.
There has to be incentive for the larger guilds to want to pick a hotspot over a lesser spot.

Only the biggest corporations could afford the best locations, yes.. that's how the world works.
The problem right now is the biggest corporations make several guilds and tap as many locations as they can knocking smaller guilds out of the ballpark with their near billion gold in funds.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Another way of looking at this is fewer Trade Guilds means less competition for the Traders and lower Trader costs.

Competition amongst traders leads to profitable situations for customers, and in the trading business the customer is central.

How do you define competition? The guildmaster would be setting the prices members would be allowed to sell items for? Players who want to price their items low won't be allowed to do that? Or, if the prices for a mat drop, a large guild could send someone to buy everything at the low price, then flip it for whatever price they want? Or dummy guilds would be bidding to keep out other guilds but have no inventory to sell, because, hey, that's competition?

If it is so hard to get traders, why can social guilds with no dues or weekly sale requirements can get traders?

kargen27

volkeswagon wrote: »

Having 50 slots per guildy would definitely alleviate my need for 3 capital trading guilds as I could make due with 2 which means I don't have to leave one of my social guilds However if they increase slots it would have to be across the board otherwise it would create issues when moving from a capital location to a smaller one. Since there is stiff competition for capital traders it only makes sense to increase the amount of traders there before you increase ones in the middle of nowhere, especially since from my experience it's often not worth my time to shop the boony's because it's mostly slim pickings in terms of listings. Before when treasure maps were worth buying I used to but not anymore.

I think by your logic it makes sense to put more traders by the ones that exist out in the wild. Give players more incentive to shop beyond the main trading hubs.

Ackwalan

Add a 'black market' trader that is open to everyone. This black market trader would have a high tax (40%?) and people could only list 5 items a week. The people that like to sell a lot would still want a guild trader, the guilds that lost their trader or guildless rogues could still sell items. With the high tax and limited number of items sold per week, the guilds would not lose their importance.

Edited to add. The high tax would also remove gold from the game which may help keep inflation somewhat flat.

marius_buys

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

FloydStash wrote: »

This causes members to leave no matter how hard we work to make it a big guild and grow into a fun community.

It's not about working harder, @Floyd_Stash ... it's about working smarter.

What other events can the guild hold to raise money for the guild?

Farming or Fishing events to sell raw mats on the trader?

Are you doing any raffles?


The trader bid system is working fine ... looks like you have some more organizing and delegating to do within your guild.

Other guilds are doing it. So can you.

[snip]

but I'm sure the intention is honest and sincere

[edited for baiting]

marius_buys

My 2 cents

- put your items for sale in your guild and trade extrenally via TTC (Regret PC Only). If the item is rare enough, or well priced enough the players will mail you to ask for it
- Some more single satellite traders spread around the world would a nice QoL for new and small guilds
- An easy'ish fix would be to add an extra trader at each Outlaw refuge with U28 by combining the fence and merchant into one npc and converting the other npc into a guild trader.

GrimTheReaper45

pelle412 wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

I was an officer in a trading guild for a very long time and honestly I really just hate everything about the trading guild scene.

- Alliances are still a massive issue

- The amount of gms and officers that will bleed members for every donation they can while at the same time taking the majority of that for themselves is shockingly high.

- Member loyalty to a trading guild is actively discouraged. Not that you really want to anyway, there fairly toxic. However If you dont have anything to sell that week or if they dont get a trader then really you should just bounce. Your wasting the fee and just bleeding money.

- Fees and donations are ridiculously high, again also probably to more effectively steal from you.

-Barrier to entry is super high for new guilds. Unless they join an alliance who will literally tell them where to bid, what to bid and will probably actively screw them over for there own benefit regardless.

This may be your opinion, but having been an officer myself in multiple trading guilds for many years, and knowing many high end trading guilds, what you say here is complete nonsense. Trading guild officers who are serious do not pocket money for themselves. In all my time I've never even heard of this happening in any respectable guild. Fees and donations are not ridiculously high, but then again I don't know what you consider as such.

Sounds like you got burned bad in your corrupt trading guild and assume it's the same everywhere else.

Keep in mind we also maybe on different servers.

I know at least ps4 na, many of the top trading guilds in mournhold and wayrest (Location does change a bit more not than it use too) are ripping off members. Fees are about 15k a week, personally I would say thats high. I know at least one instance where one of the top alliance leaders were giving there guild and select others better spots for lower bids when it was supposed to be based on how much you could bid that week.

Mythreindeer

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

Dont_do_drugs

How can there be not enough traders if there are tons of empty or semi empty guilds out there? The problem isn't too many guilds but too much gold, so let those people spam their gold into the nirvana of a guild trader. That's how problems solve by itself.

Kingslayer513

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I’m a pretty new ESO player and just started looking seriously at joining a trading guild. Doing some research, like reading this thread, it seems clear there is a high cost to being a member, like having a job, and just doesn’t seem worthwhile. At this point I’d rather just play and grind or craft decent gear then worry if I’m able to make my quota or submit my tithe.

There really isn't, people just like to exaggerate. Just play the game and sell off the extra stuff you don't need.