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so then, im tanking and your pets suck

  • LashanW
    LashanW
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    I am so pissed Alcast ever recommended that set, it is a tanks bane. Maw has ALWAYS been awful.
    A decision has been made to buff maw of infernal monster set to the point where it is the best mag dps monster set.
    A decision has been made to program the maw to always spawn in direct line of sight of their enemy.
    A decision has been made to keep the proc set monsters visible to other players in pve.
    No decision has been made to do anything about these visual problems in pve group content, even though players have been complaining about it for quite some time.

    Guess who you should be pissed at. (little hint: players don't make these decisions)
    Edited by LashanW on October 14, 2020 7:56AM
    ---No longer active in ESO---
    Platform: PC-EU
    CP: 2500+
    Trial Achievements
    Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death

    Arena Achievements
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    DLC Dungeon Trifectas
    Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach
  • Miszou
    Miszou
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    Ok, I thought this thread was all hot air until I tanked 4 GF dungeons back to back. And the Maw was in every one of them. I even had 2 in WayRest and it was literally impossible to see the human-sized bosses.

    It's not a complete deal-breaker imho, but it sure would be nice if the thing didn't spawn on top of you and maybe kept its distance a bit better. I mean, it has a flame attack, so there's no need for it to be in melee range...
  • yukikenzo
    yukikenzo
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    LashanW wrote: »
    I am so pissed Alcast ever recommended that set, it is a tanks bane. Maw has ALWAYS been awful.
    A decision has been made to buff maw of infernal monster set to the point where it is the best mag dps monster set.
    A decision has been made to program the maw to always spawn in direct line of sight of their enemy.
    A decision has been made to keep the proc set monsters visible to other players in pve.
    No decision has been made to do anything about these visual problems in pve group content, even though players have been complaining about it for quite some time.

    Guess who you should be pissed at. (little hint: players don't make these decisions)

    This is what we get for complaining about Maw being a useless monster set for 5 years.
    Every time it got buffed 'Nah, too weak'. Now 'gtfo of my face'.
    PS5 EU
    rich in ESO, poor irl
  • Malkiv
    Malkiv
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    Merforum wrote: »
    Malkiv wrote: »
    I’m just going to start running a disgusting pet meme build now. I can’t believe this is even an issue for anyone that uses situational awareness. Then again, people dragging bankers/merchants through every pull drives me nuts - I always activate them when trying to loot.

    You obviously NEVER TANK. Non-combat pets, bankers, etc are NOTHING compared to MAW. Even most normal combat pets like sorc pets aren't that bad. Even warden bear isn't too annoying. But MAW is terrible FOR TANKS, everyone else isn't really affected and unless you are tanking your opinions are worthless.

    BTW scavenging Maw and Defiler maw are also totally annoying but they only last a second and then are gone, Maw of Infernal sits there for 15 seconds and resets immediately, which is why it is so annoying.

    I tank a lot. All my trifectas and skin runs were done on my tank. Pets and pet sets have never been the reason for a missed mechanic, nor have they ever been the cause of me losing track of something. If that happens, it’s 100% my fault and not the player running pets/sets.

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.
    PC-NA | PvP (Gray Host & BGs) | PvE (vTrials & vDGs)
  • emilyhyoyeon
    emilyhyoyeon
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    Malkiv wrote: »

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    this is literally not at all what's going on here with this topic. come on
    Zirasia Firemaker, imperial fire mage & sunbather _ Deebaba Soul-Weaver, argonian spirit minder & soul gem collector
    Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage noble & ayleid researcher _ Qa'Rirra, khajiit assassin & dancer
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    Malkiv wrote: »

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    this is literally not at all what's going on here with this topic. come on

    We have some people saying they will kick group mates for having pets, and others demanding zos make changes to pets. So what is going on if not what Malkiv suggests?
  • Donny_Vito
    Donny_Vito
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    CrashTest wrote: »
    Pets, Daedroth, Colossus, and whatever ginormous view-obstructing monstrosity that sets and skills spawn are the bane of tanking.

    I took a break, came back, and now Maw of the Infernal is the mag DPS monster set. Tanking a trial after coming back was nuts. I couldn't even see heavy attacks and got wrecked.

    People who say just side step them must not tank content with more than one mag DPS bc you can't really side step 3 Daedroth simultaneoisly spawned. Also, there are times when you really can't side step anywhere.

    This is definitely the meta so get used to it at least until next patch, and probably longer.
  • kringled_1
    kringled_1
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    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Malkiv wrote: »

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    this is literally not at all what's going on here with this topic. come on

    We have some people saying they will kick group mates for having pets, and others demanding zos make changes to pets. So what is going on if not what Malkiv suggests?

    From my tanking, maw is different than the others. None of the other pets are more than a minor visual distraction. Familiar, clannfear, and the bear all have the potential to stun, which definitely can interfere, but the familiar pulse can be controlled and that's what stuns the most.
    I don't know what content Malkiv has and hasn't tanked, but not every mechanic has a callout in an addon, and not every mechanic is on a fully predictable cycle. Visual cues from the boss are certainly useful in knowing which mechanic is incoming, and Maw frequently covers it up far more than any other pet, whether set or skill derived.
  • emilyhyoyeon
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    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Malkiv wrote: »

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    this is literally not at all what's going on here with this topic. come on

    We have some people saying they will kick group mates for having pets, and others demanding zos make changes to pets. So what is going on if not what Malkiv suggests?

    People are upset that the daedroths from maw are massive and when they appear completely cover the majority of bosses, making it quite difficult to see boss animations. (Moving the boss to get around this is a bad option, since ideally tanks keep bosses as still as possible)

    People aren't ''trying to control everything'' or whatever the other guy was getting at. Like what? That's such a dishonest way of looking at what people are saying here.

    FTR ''demanding zos make changes to pets'' is a dishonest way of describing what people want too. It makes people's suggestion to change how maw/pets work look bad and sound unreasonable for no reason.
    Zirasia Firemaker, imperial fire mage & sunbather _ Deebaba Soul-Weaver, argonian spirit minder & soul gem collector
    Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage noble & ayleid researcher _ Qa'Rirra, khajiit assassin & dancer
  • SilverBride
    SilverBride
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    People are upset that the daedroths from maw are massive and when they appear completely cover the majority of bosses, making it quite difficult to see boss animations.

    I've run into these at Harrowstorms and World Bosses, and I find them very obtrusive and annoying. And I'm not even a tank.

    PCNA
  • Mumbles_the_Tank
    Mumbles_the_Tank
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    Malkiv wrote: »
    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    You are so full of it - it doesn’t matter if you get used to it or are familiar enough with content that the Maw doesn’t bother you personally.

    The game has a hide ally FX setting - and there is no logical reason whatsoever that ZOS has not added blatantly obstructive procs and skills such as Maw or Colossus into its parameters. This has been true for years - it was the exact same in the last Maw meta; the same issue during HA petsorcs; and again when Necro released.

    There is zero useful reason for a tank to see these things - and the current meta is a direct impediment for tanks learning content and cues without the constant assistance of addons. (Addons which can often lag or get forced off screen by other alerts depending on your UI setup, your rig, connection or general server/instance instability - I might add). Never mind the fact that particular defence is completely irrelevant to console tanks.

    Just because you don’t care - does not make it a sound design choice. And if these things were to be added into Hide Ally Fx - you would lose out on what exactly?

    Absolutely nothing - that’s what! This is a totally valid and ever recurring complaint stretched over years that is a simple QoL fix long, long overdue.

  • Merforum
    Merforum
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    zaria wrote: »
    Merforum wrote: »
    Malkiv wrote: »
    I’m just going to start running a disgusting pet meme build now. I can’t believe this is even an issue for anyone that uses situational awareness. Then again, people dragging bankers/merchants through every pull drives me nuts - I always activate them when trying to loot.

    You obviously NEVER TANK. Non-combat pets, bankers, etc are NOTHING compared to MAW. Even most normal combat pets like sorc pets aren't that bad. Even warden bear isn't too annoying. But MAW is terrible FOR TANKS, everyone else isn't really affected and unless you are tanking your opinions are worthless.

    BTW scavenging Maw and Defiler maw are also totally annoying but they only last a second and then are gone, Maw of Infernal sits there for 15 seconds and resets immediately, which is why it is so annoying.
    Agree, now as tank can not see the boss he will just be blocking and not do other useful stuff who help you but cost stamina as tank do not know then its safe to HA boss.
    The 3 maw run was an easy dungeon with an large bosses so it was just fun but on an vet dlc with human sized bosses who can one shot tank it will not work. BC2 is the other obvious one but also daedric dungeons can get confusing.

    Wow I can't believe how toxic the game and this forum is.
    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Malkiv wrote: »

    A lot of people get upset that they cannot control every aspect and facet of the game, including what is present on the screen. Perhaps try looking inward to assign responsibility for missed opportunities.

    this is literally not at all what's going on here with this topic. come on

    We have some people saying they will kick group mates for having pets, and others demanding zos make changes to pets. So what is going on if not what Malkiv suggests?

    People are upset that the daedroths from maw are massive and when they appear completely cover the majority of bosses, making it quite difficult to see boss animations. (Moving the boss to get around this is a bad option, since ideally tanks keep bosses as still as possible)

    People aren't ''trying to control everything'' or whatever the other guy was getting at. Like what? That's such a dishonest way of looking at what people are saying here.

    FTR ''demanding zos make changes to pets'' is a dishonest way of describing what people want too. It makes people's suggestion to change how maw/pets work look bad and sound unreasonable for no reason.

    This is correct. I can't believe how many of these threads always have one or more guys saying 'OH if you were just as good as me that wouldn't be a problem' and completely ignore all legitimate discussion. No one is saying it is impossible, I literally had one dungeon in GF where both DDs AND the healer had the [snip] Daedroth. Did I Die, NO. Did I ask them nicely to get rid of one or more of them only to have them say NO and insult me in the chat for half the dungeon, YES.

    There are 2 problems here.

    1. Devs are 100% responsible for making the daedroth TOO BIG, TOO CLOSE, NOT INVISIBLE, that has NOTHING to do with other players and could be fixed easily.

    2. There is an overwhelming number of toxic players who are extremely rude and saturate dungeon finder, battle grounds, Imperial city, Cyrodiil [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on October 14, 2020 4:58PM
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
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    Whether PvE or PvP, it makes no sense why your allies can see the Deadroth, but not Ilambris aoes. They are both Monster proc sets. IIRC, they removed many friendly effects to reduce lag a while ago. They don't need to advertise the set, its base game. So why do we have to see one, and not the other?

    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Kingpindragon
    Kingpindragon
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    Whoever designed that set didn't think or care about Tanks, at least have the pet spawn behind (or on the side of) the mob.

    It is easy to "side-step" sure in most cases, but anyone saying that obviously hasn't Tanked a lot of HM content. Nothing like adding more player-controlled mechanics to RNG fest.

    I actually love using pets, but I also understand the stress of Tanking.

    I don't think DPS should have to get rid of Pets or sets, but I also don't think a Tanks job should be harder because of said abilities.
    Edited by Kingpindragon on October 14, 2020 7:44PM
  • Kurat
    Kurat
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    I usually ask people to not use maw. If they dont listen I leave and they can wait another 30min for new tank.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    Malkiv wrote: »
    Sounds like first-person problems, because this isn’t an issue at max cam distance in third-person.

    Actually, yes it is. I only tank in 3rd person, max view, and in a trial 8 deadroths plus other "pets" cover up a LOT of trials adds and bosses. In dungeons it's worse because many bosses are regular sized - e.g. MUCH smaller than your stupid daedroth!

    I am so pissed Alcast ever recommended that set, it is a tanks bane. Maw has ALWAYS been awful.

    Also, if you think "tanking is easy this keeps you occupied"...yes, tanking vet DLC HMs is so easy! I just stand there and do nothing but hold block! No casting shields, no dodge rolling heavy attacks that one shot me, no buffing the group, no self heals in 3 DPS runs, no timing heavy attacks for restore! Tanking is SOOOO boring, that's why there's a 45 minute wait for tanks in queue! It's so easy and no one wants easy!

    *eyeroll and giant /s

    Pet sets SUCK in dungeons. Devs either need to make it so the pets NEVER EVER spawn in front of tank, or players need to NOT WEAR THEM.

    No.
    They should made pet NOT visible for other player. Pretty simple, we already have this option for set like Aegis caller, so they clearly can do it for all pet, they're just lazy af.
    Edited by Aznarb on October 14, 2020 10:59PM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
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  • Troodon80
    Troodon80
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    @Troodon80 PC | EU
    Guild: N&S
    Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
    Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics
  • Miszou
    Miszou
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    ....your allies can see the Deadroth, but not Ilambris aoes.

    Wait, what? No can see my sparkly awesome Crit Surge /Boundless Storm /Thunderbug combo with Ilambris finisher?

    That's the best part! :|

  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    In my personal experience, the tanks that complain about my pets also suck when I turn them off. And the tanks that just do their job despite their presence, tend to just be better at the game in general.

    Had a tank blaming my pets for his failures in Vet Castle Thorn the other day. Me and the other pet sorc agree to take them off. He still keeps getting one shot by the heavy attacks. We tell him we'll call out to roll dodge, he still gets killed by the heavy attacks.

    So then I end up slotting inner fire, putting back on my pets and also the storm clock skill thingy whose name I'm blanking on right now but raises your resists and give you a speed boost when cast. I tank the add and roll dodge all the heavy attacks that I'm not already too far away from the mob to hit. And then we get the boss done.


    Quelle suprise.

    Edit:

    Maw of the Inferno is a different story. That's much harder to play around. That sucker is huge.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on October 15, 2020 4:26PM
  • SilverBride
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    In my personal experience, the tanks that complain about my pets also suck when I turn them off.

    All the more reason to turn them off. If the tank is already struggling for whatever reason (maybe they are new at tanking, or new at this particular boss), the less distraction the better.

    Although fixing the problem of pets being in the way would be the ideal solution, rather than players not being able to use them.

    As I stated earlier, my Sorcerer had to ditch her pet because it was so in my face all the time that it was beyond irritating. Plus there is no way to dismiss it. You have to either keep it off your back bar and switch to that, which means every time you switch back to your main bar you have to summon it again, and then it's not available to use with your back bar skills. Or you have to remove it off your bar then put it back for the next time you want to summon it.
    PCNA
  • AyaDark
    AyaDark
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    Troodon80 wrote: »

    If i would be a boss i would run away =))))

    nice =)))
  • itscompton
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    RavenLake wrote: »
    Sidestep the pets. Its not hard. Why is this even an issue?

    Attitudes like this is why it's so hard to find tanks in group finder. It's an issue because it's annoying AF to have another mechanic that constantly blinds you added to every dungeon. I hope they nerf the damn Maw back to oblivion so hard everyone breaks down the set for materials.
    Edited by itscompton on October 15, 2020 7:44PM
  • Deter1UK
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    zaria wrote: »
    W0lf_z13 wrote: »
    now i kind of want to run a random on my non pet sorc but change him to a pet sorc with both pets along with maw and the atro ult :D
    You need to run mad Mad Tinkerer too, not sure of other magic dps sets with pet.
    On top have the thief guild fence up :)

    Tinkerer, Defiler, 2x sorc pets ,Maw and Atro - my current 6 pet set up for fun.

    There are three of us in our guild with this set and just waiting for our fav tank who’s on holiday and hates pets to come back so’s we can group with her :smiley:

  • WeerW3ir
    WeerW3ir
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    Get a bigger monitor? No. 120° wide ones are not good. Just a big one so you can see whats behind the pet. Its helps a lot. Trust me
  • Goregrinder
    Goregrinder
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    RavenLake wrote: »
    Pets are part of the game and part of builds. Demanding someone to control something they cannot, or something they enjoy playing, is not your right. Learn to play around pets or play another role.

    Heavy attack will tell your pet where to go. On Keyboard UI you can use the Y key as well.

    Pets ARE controllable, players need to learn this.

    Yep, 6 years later and 95% of players still don't know this. This works even on WW pact leader morph.
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    The only pet I care about when I'm tanking is Barney. I mean - the Daedroth.

    It spawns directly in front of the enemy, so usually right on top of the tank, is bigger than the tank, completely covering up being able to see your character at all. (Which has gone from annoying to actually a functional problem after the block changes and I can't tell when my character has decided to just randomly quit blocking). It's also a major issue in the new trial when the bosses, especially the LT. mini boss that spawns in the last fight and does a couple of major attacks that are best dodged and Barney is completely blocking not only your own character model, but the enemy you are tanking as well. Combine that with half the DPS or more wearing it and you have 4+ of those things standing in the way.

    We've actually banned maw in our guild from being used in KA.

    Q9w0Yoq.png

    tbh, i could live with it after getting used to the trial, but I hate it so much, I'd rather him just stay banned.

    At the very least they could make it spawn either directly behind the target or at 90 degrees to the left or right. But I think something more drastic should be changed to make it less obtrusive, make it ghost like or something. IDK. But I can't stand that monster set.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • EvilAutoTech
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    xaraan wrote: »
    The only pet I care about when I'm tanking is Barney. I mean - the Daedroth.

    It spawns directly in front of the enemy, so usually right on top of the tank, is bigger than the tank, completely covering up being able to see your character at all. (Which has gone from annoying to actually a functional problem after the block changes and I can't tell when my character has decided to just randomly quit blocking). It's also a major issue in the new trial when the bosses, especially the LT. mini boss that spawns in the last fight and does a couple of major attacks that are best dodged and Barney is completely blocking not only your own character model, but the enemy you are tanking as well. Combine that with half the DPS or more wearing it and you have 4+ of those things standing in the way.

    We've actually banned maw in our guild from being used in KA.

    Q9w0Yoq.png

    tbh, i could live with it after getting used to the trial, but I hate it so much, I'd rather him just stay banned.

    At the very least they could make it spawn either directly behind the target or at 90 degrees to the left or right. But I think something more drastic should be changed to make it less obtrusive, make it ghost like or something. IDK. But I can't stand that monster set.

    I say make him tiny. Like the flesh atro the vestige has to construct in the main quest. He could be just as powerful, just knee-high to a tall Nord or Altmer.

    Ooh, better, make him scale to be knee-high to the character that procs it.
  • Hexvaldr
    Hexvaldr
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    Sometimes I have slotted Maw on my tank in non-dlc vet dungeons just to have more Maw goodness overloading everything. That being said, I have a screenshot in vKA where my tank is buried under Maws, spec twilight's, and even a warden bear. I could not see boss telegraphs or verification that my block was still up or not. I tell ya what though... Every obstacle just makes you more of a BAMF tank, so when you miss that crucial block you can die with a smile on yer face and carve another notch in your battered shield... Also, codes combat alerts add-on helps a lot in these situations.
    Edited by Hexvaldr on October 19, 2020 6:12PM
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I honestly cant believe people are attacking the OP on this. The current pet meta is completely obnoxious for tanks. I have been in raids with 8 maws and a half a dozen other sorc pets. ZOS needs to do something, and its pretty obvious as to what.

    Give players the ability to toggle the appearance of friendly pets.

    It would also put an end to all the rage about pets in towns, in and around crafting/outfit stations. If it's not trying to kill me, or heal the guy trying to kill me, I just dont need to see it.
  • nud3_voxel
    nud3_voxel
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    You can use hidegroup if you're on PC
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