Warden and Necro is/was so f OP and p2w its a joke. They got indirectly nerfed hardest because of the buff changes, god forbid zos actually would nerf them directly, but they wouldnt touch their cash cows.
What pisses me most off is how they removed minor berserk from nb, but gave it to warden. NB is the class with the least amount of buffs available to them and warden is the one with the most...that makes no kind of sense at all.
SavageChain wrote: »I agree that class abilities and passives need to be looked at soon. Sadly your example was badly chosen, since stamden atm was too strong and does not need improvements defense wise. Mostly the original 4 classes need to be looked at and the magicka toons of warden and necromancer need their offense improved. Sadly stamcro didnt get hit hard enough to bring it in line with the older classes, their inherent tankyness comes from unique mitigation passives, which are not touched on the pts.
CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »I agree that class abilities and passives need to be looked at soon. Sadly your example was badly chosen, since stamden atm was too strong and does not need improvements defense wise. Mostly the original 4 classes need to be looked at and the magicka toons of warden and necromancer need their offense improved. Sadly stamcro didnt get hit hard enough to bring it in line with the older classes, their inherent tankyness comes from unique mitigation passives, which are not touched on the pts.
This. Warden overall is not OP - only stamden DAMAGE, which is arguably the stamina toolkit being OP as compared to magicka. Warden tanking still has issues, notably CC (yes silver leash exists, but frozen device is a pain to use and gripping shards just never seems to work as well as talons)
Stamcro's tankiness comes directly from Spirit Warden plus Summoner's Armor and major protection from Deaden Pain (all active skills). The Major protection reduction will hit stamcro, but not as hard as it needed.
llBlack_Heartll wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »I agree that class abilities and passives need to be looked at soon. Sadly your example was badly chosen, since stamden atm was too strong and does not need improvements defense wise. Mostly the original 4 classes need to be looked at and the magicka toons of warden and necromancer need their offense improved. Sadly stamcro didnt get hit hard enough to bring it in line with the older classes, their inherent tankyness comes from unique mitigation passives, which are not touched on the pts.
This. Warden overall is not OP - only stamden DAMAGE, which is arguably the stamina toolkit being OP as compared to magicka. Warden tanking still has issues, notably CC (yes silver leash exists, but frozen device is a pain to use and gripping shards just never seems to work as well as talons)
Stamcro's tankiness comes directly from Spirit Warden plus Summoner's Armor and major protection from Deaden Pain (all active skills). The Major protection reduction will hit stamcro, but not as hard as it needed.
Think you all forget Warden and Necro don't have executes and high burst damage is the trade off for that. I also hope you are all talking about Stamden's being OP in PvP (Which im sure they actually aren't), because they are actually the weakest DPS class in PVE. Yet all of these changes are a direct Nerf to Stamden PVE.
Warden and Necro is/was so f OP and p2w its a joke. They got indirectly nerfed hardest because of the buff changes, god forbid zos actually would nerf them directly, but they wouldnt touch their cash cows.
What pisses me most off is how they removed minor berserk from nb, but gave it to warden. NB is the class with the least amount of buffs available to them and warden is the one with the most...that makes no kind of sense at all.
llBlack_Heartll wrote: »CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »I agree that class abilities and passives need to be looked at soon. Sadly your example was badly chosen, since stamden atm was too strong and does not need improvements defense wise. Mostly the original 4 classes need to be looked at and the magicka toons of warden and necromancer need their offense improved. Sadly stamcro didnt get hit hard enough to bring it in line with the older classes, their inherent tankyness comes from unique mitigation passives, which are not touched on the pts.
This. Warden overall is not OP - only stamden DAMAGE, which is arguably the stamina toolkit being OP as compared to magicka. Warden tanking still has issues, notably CC (yes silver leash exists, but frozen device is a pain to use and gripping shards just never seems to work as well as talons)
Stamcro's tankiness comes directly from Spirit Warden plus Summoner's Armor and major protection from Deaden Pain (all active skills). The Major protection reduction will hit stamcro, but not as hard as it needed.
Think you all forget Warden and Necro don't have executes and high burst damage is the trade off for that.
CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »I agree that class abilities and passives need to be looked at soon. Sadly your example was badly chosen, since stamden atm was too strong and does not need improvements defense wise. Mostly the original 4 classes need to be looked at and the magicka toons of warden and necromancer need their offense improved. Sadly stamcro didnt get hit hard enough to bring it in line with the older classes, their inherent tankyness comes from unique mitigation passives, which are not touched on the pt2+s.
This. Warden overall is not OP - only stamden DAMAGE, which is arguably the stamina toolkit being OP as compared to magicka. Warden tanking still has issues, notably CC (yes silver leash exists, but frozen device is a pain to use and gripping shards just never seems to work as well as talons)
Stamcro's tankiness comes directly from Spirit Warden plus Summoner's Armor and major protection from Deaden Pain (all active skills). The Major protection reduction will hit stamcro, but not as hard as it needed.
Lughlongarm wrote: »"We have not done a full pass on class abilities since the SBE system is generally meant to be designed for non-abilities; that said, we will keep a close eye on class functionality in PvE and PvP due to these changes."
I don't know the new SBE system could be released without addressing this issue. Some classes passives and skills were being evaluated heavily based on on the old minor/major system while other classes got more emphasize on unique buffs and debuffs.
Look at Warden for example, probably the class with the most minor/major buffs:
Minor Protection: Decreased to 5%, down from 8%.
Major Protection: Decreased to 10%, down from 30%.
Minor Maim: Decreased to 5%, down from 15%
Major Mending: Decreased to 16%, down from 25%
Minor Berserk: Decreased to 5%, down from 8%
Minor Vulnerability: Decreased to 5%, down from 8%
This list only includes key factors elements of probably every Warden build. The shift in damage output potential is probably manageable, but on the survivability side this is huge hit with nothing to really compensate.
-Permafrost(ulti) isprobably one of the weakest ulties in the game ATM, arguably a weaker skill now than Spirit Guardian(Necro healing skill).
-You have skills like "Repentance" which just became one of the most OP skills in the game.
These are just examples, a full pass on class abilities and passives must be made.
Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Oh, look. Another thread harping on Warden nerfs, but not advocating to buff their abysmal PVE DPS situation.
Lughlongarm wrote: »I think most of the comments ae missing the point. This is not a buff Warden thread nor it is a a nerf Templar thread. I used the Warden example as I mainly play Magicka Warden and mostly for PvP. This is just the class and situations I'm most familiar with.
Point is, the changes which are coming the new SBE system are just too extreme to ignore in terms of Class balance.
Warden and Necro is/was so f OP and p2w its a joke. They got indirectly nerfed hardest because of the buff changes, god forbid zos actually would nerf them directly, but they wouldnt touch their cash cows.
Classes need a balance pass, but not right now. This update changes alot of things, but total impact on the game is still unclear and changing to many things at once blur the impact of individual changes.
Changes like these need time to settle in to see how the game changes and how players adapt. Most of the balance feedback given during PTS cycles isnt based on testing and tinkering. Its solely based on theories that are born out of patch notes but that lack evidence and testing needed to proof them.Warden and Necro is/was so f OP and p2w its a joke. They got indirectly nerfed hardest because of the buff changes, god forbid zos actually would nerf them directly, but they wouldnt touch their cash cows.
You can buy a Greymoore standard edition for 20€ that contains the base game and all chapters, including the classes. Its hard to make a solid argument about something being P2W and a "cash cow" when its just cheap. What you do is just disqualify your own opinion. With such, easy to debunk, statements you imply that your feedback is based on dislike for something rather than on actual care about balance.
Classes need a balance pass, but not right now. This update changes alot of things, but total impact on the game is still unclear and changing to many things at once blur the impact of individual changes.
Changes like these need time to settle in to see how the game changes and how players adapt. Most of the balance feedback given during PTS cycles isnt based on testing and tinkering. Its solely based on theories that are born out of patch notes but that lack evidence and testing needed to proof them.
Atherakhia wrote: »Mending having their values dramatically reduced, do skills that also cast Prot and Mending still need to be such short durations when the buffs are so trivial?
Recapitated wrote: »Atherakhia wrote: »Mending having their values dramatically reduced, do skills that also cast Prot and Mending still need to be such short durations when the buffs are so trivial?
I would rather frag shield get short-term major and minor mending (24% increased healing next patch) so I have to use it intelligently rather than a long and somewhat weak healing buff.