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Bloodthirsty on healers

zvavi
zvavi
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I know it is a bit late to bring it up, but since it says "increase spell Damage on targets below 90%", does it affect healing allies? Did anyone test it?

Edit for the patch notes quote:
Bloodthirsty: This trait now grants up to 250 Weapon and Spell Damage against targets under 90% Health, scaling linearly per 1% missing Health, rather than granting a flat 10% damage increase against targets under 25% Health.
Edited by zvavi on August 18, 2020 9:40AM
  • Zer0_CooL
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    It increases damage done, not healing done, nor your spell-/weapon damage stats. Its a multiplier on the damage output. So it does not increas your healing. Though i didn't test it.

    Edit: Oh, didn't see the changes on this trait. Interesting question indeed. As it is writen, it should aply for heals aswell. Since its damge increase on a target, wether friendly or enemy.
    Edited by Zer0_CooL on August 18, 2020 2:35PM
  • zvavi
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    Zer0_CooL wrote: »
    It increases damage done, not healing done, nor your spell-/weapon damage stats. Its a multiplier on the damage output. So it does not increas your healing. Though i didn't test it.
    Bloodthirsty: This trait now grants up to 250 Weapon and Spell Damage against targets under 90% Health, scaling linearly per 1% missing Health, rather than granting a flat 10% damage increase against targets under 25% Health.



  • the1andonlyskwex
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    This is a fascinating question. I had assumed it only applied to offensive abilities because that's how the live version works.

    Similarly, even if it does only affect offensive abilities, I wonder if it affects the heal from things like Obsidian Shard and Sap Essence.
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    Also, how does it affect AoE in general? Does the whole ability get the bonus if one affected target has low health? Does the bonus get calculated separately for each target (which I think would be an entirely new mechanic for weapon and spell damage)? Does it even work on AoE (or is it restricted to "targeted" abilities)?
  • exeeter702
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    Also, how does it affect AoE in general? Does the whole ability get the bonus if one affected target has low health? Does the bonus get calculated separately for each target (which I think would be an entirely new mechanic for weapon and spell damage)? Does it even work on AoE (or is it restricted to "targeted" abilities)?

    The bonus damage is applied to the value that is being delivered to the recipient from the skill. In this case bloodthirsty will function with aoes just as it always has. All the tool tip is saying is that targets on the receiving end of your damage will take additional damage due to the attacker having a weapon or spell damage modifier against them (like spell strategist for example). Replace the word target with recipient and it makes more sense. It has nothing to do with single target skills.

    Now, with how its worded, if it does in fact effect healing to allies, the same principle will apply. You would just be gaining boosted spell damage when any of your heals connect to targets based on their missing health, aoe or otherwise.
    Edited by exeeter702 on August 18, 2020 5:01PM
  • Tyrobag
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    Also, how does it affect AoE in general? Does the whole ability get the bonus if one affected target has low health? Does the bonus get calculated separately for each target (which I think would be an entirely new mechanic for weapon and spell damage)? Does it even work on AoE (or is it restricted to "targeted" abilities)?
    That's not new at all, it will perform like spell strategist, only the relevant target takes additional damage.

    As far as if it buffs healing on low health allies, it would be cool but I wouldn't count on it.
  • universal_wrath
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    Why not use infused? Even if bloodthirsty worked on heals, it will only be stronger around 20% of target HP while infused is active all the time on constant buffer.
  • Olupajmibanan
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    Why not use infused? Even if bloodthirsty worked on heals, it will only be stronger around 20% of target HP while infused is active all the time on constant buffer.

    Bloodthirsty beats infused at around 50% hp on non-sorc characters.
  • zvavi
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    Why not use infused? Even if bloodthirsty worked on heals, it will only be stronger around 20% of target HP while infused is active all the time on constant buffer.

    Bloodthirsty beats infused at around 50% hp on non-sorc characters.

    Closer towards the 55% if I am not mistaken, but ye, especially when you don't need your heal strongly those above 80%, since they get topped up without the bonus.
  • zvavi
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    Off-topic, but it is super strange that in a patch where ZOS is eliminating RNG rolls and generally trying to improve damage calculation performance that we are getting this as the new Bloodthirsty that introduces a bunch of new calculations per tick.

    The left hand seems not to know what the right hand is doing, again.

    Tbh it is not that different than the old blood thirsty,

    changing the check to if(hp<25%) {add 10% to DmgModifier} is very similar to if(hp<90%) {add (90%-hp)*350 to spell&weapon dmg}

    It has a very similar efficiency, they are aware that they have more calculations than the server can handle, they blame aoe this time, but the truth is that it is everything together, imo the options are these, one is dumbing down the game, second is pouring more server resources into combat instead of other things (best solution, will be simplifying the anti cheat engines, making cheating easier, but banning offenders much more frequently, which will result in either less cheaters, or net gain income for zos of cheaters buying new accounts and bringing money to the game just to get banned again).
    Edited by zvavi on August 18, 2020 7:01PM
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    I meant more in the sense that Bloodthirsty remaining as a dynamic trait at all is odd.

    If I were the developers, I would be trying to shift as many of the game's over-abundance of dynamic modifiers to static modifiers as I could.
  • priforce
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    Anyone test the healing benefits yet?
  • Kolzki
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    Off-topic, but it is super strange that in a patch where ZOS is eliminating RNG rolls and generally trying to improve damage calculation performance that we are getting this as the new Bloodthirsty that introduces a bunch of new calculations per tick.

    The left hand seems not to know what the right hand is doing, again.

    Continuing that off topic, it seem strange remove a damage taken increase that function like all other damage taken effects (e.g. it adds to vulnerability) and replace it with a weapon/spell damage bonus that doesn’t scale. The old version is consistent with other damage calculations but the new version is not because it doesn’t scale with buffs.

    A reduction in the old added damage done could have given a similar result (damage take and max stats multiply in the damage calculations). I guess the main difference is that the new version scale doesn’t scale as well for builds with high stats. As healers have low spell damage, and you want to heal people at low health, it would have been quite strong (back on topic!).
  • Cinbri
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    Kolzki wrote: »
    Off-topic, but it is super strange that in a patch where ZOS is eliminating RNG rolls and generally trying to improve damage calculation performance that we are getting this as the new Bloodthirsty that introduces a bunch of new calculations per tick.

    The left hand seems not to know what the right hand is doing, again.

    Continuing that off topic, it seem strange remove a damage taken increase that function like all other damage taken effects (e.g. it adds to vulnerability) and replace it with a weapon/spell damage bonus that doesn’t scale. The old version is consistent with other damage calculations but the new version is not because it doesn’t scale with buffs.

    A reduction in the old added damage done could have given a similar result (damage take and max stats multiply in the damage calculations). I guess the main difference is that the new version scale doesn’t scale as well for builds with high stats. As healers have low spell damage, and you want to heal people at low health, it would have been quite strong (back on topic!).

    New version dont work with procsets. Seems was made to limit their power at least some way.
  • zvavi
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    Cinbri wrote: »

    New version dont work with procsets. Seems was made to limit their power at least some way.

    The second silent nerf to rele.
  • zvavi
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    Cinbri wrote: »

    Doesnt work with heals nor on yourself nor on ally :disappointed:

    Is it an inaccuracy in description then? Can someone post description for BT as in PTS?
    Edited by zvavi on August 19, 2020 1:53PM
  • Aznarb
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    Even if it was accurate it was useless on healer anyway. Healer on this game don't need more healing, we've way enough heal to keep people alive.
    Edited by Aznarb on August 19, 2020 11:00PM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • zvavi
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    Aznarb wrote: »
    Even if it was accurate it was useless on healer anyway. Healer on this game don't need more healing, we've way enough heal to keep people alive.

    But it would increase the damage too, so win win?
  • Aznarb
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    zvavi wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Even if it was accurate it was useless on healer anyway. Healer on this game don't need more healing, we've way enough heal to keep people alive.

    But it would increase the damage too, so win win?

    The only real moment you dmg is in MK/Z'en, and this set combo will fall on a MagDK next patch.
    Also, healer don't have enough dmg (and no execute skill du to bar space) to make them worth it.
    Really I can't see any case where it would be useful.
    If the healer DPS enough to benefit from these trait, you better run one more DDs instead.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • FrancisCrawford
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    Aznarb wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Even if it was accurate it was useless on healer anyway. Healer on this game don't need more healing, we've way enough heal to keep people alive.

    But it would increase the damage too, so win win?

    The only real moment you dmg is in MK/Z'en, and this set combo will fall on a MagDK next patch.
    Also, healer don't have enough dmg (and no execute skill du to bar space) to make them worth it.
    Really I can't see any case where it would be useful.
    If the healer DPS enough to benefit from these trait, you better run one more DDs instead.

    Your post reads as if nobody ever heals a four-person group.

    I think we all agree that healing a four-person group is not a full-time job. Where opinions differ is whether it's a job at all. Not everybody agrees that dungeon healers are to be completely avoided.
    Edited by FrancisCrawford on August 20, 2020 11:37PM
  • silver1surfer69
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Kolzki wrote: »
    Off-topic, but it is super strange that in a patch where ZOS is eliminating RNG rolls and generally trying to improve damage calculation performance that we are getting this as the new Bloodthirsty that introduces a bunch of new calculations per tick.

    The left hand seems not to know what the right hand is doing, again.

    Continuing that off topic, it seem strange remove a damage taken increase that function like all other damage taken effects (e.g. it adds to vulnerability) and replace it with a weapon/spell damage bonus that doesn’t scale. The old version is consistent with other damage calculations but the new version is not because it doesn’t scale with buffs.

    A reduction in the old added damage done could have given a similar result (damage take and max stats multiply in the damage calculations). I guess the main difference is that the new version scale doesn’t scale as well for builds with high stats. As healers have low spell damage, and you want to heal people at low health, it would have been quite strong (back on topic!).

    New version dont work with procsets. Seems was made to limit their power at least some way.

    Yes it does work with proc. Tested last patch (U30). I really would love if ppl hust do some testing so we all can have valuable and aproved informaion. Its easy ro do, just go to a dummy.

    I came here now for the healing question. Im using bloodthirtsy for years now (pvp) and i feel strongly it increases healing too. Was this testet? I hope i could find an aproved answer here, but it seems no one did and i have to do it myself.
    PC/EU
    Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen
    Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - StamSorc
    Tárn - StamDK
    Tínúvíél - StamCro
    Thógard - StamPlar
  • silver1surfer69
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    Ok just testet it on dummy with health costing ability from vampire. Bloodthirsty does not work/increase healing.
    PC/EU
    Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen
    Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - StamSorc
    Tárn - StamDK
    Tínúvíél - StamCro
    Thógard - StamPlar
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