At a complete loss at how disconnected ZOS is with it's players.

Snowgoons

You guys just throw new crown store items in our faces, say it's this season and this event, like not one time, have I seen anyone from ZOS come in, and even ask players what they would prefer on ANYTHING. Even when it's warranted.

Like the upcoming AOE changes, wasn't even proposed, just tell us like children what's happening, and we just have to go with it.

No choice in any matter.

It's become a big issue ZOS, no ones gonna just magically forget what you're doing.

Anony_Mouse

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

Snowgoons

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

I don't care what I seem, I'm typing raw facts.

But if you'd like to know after asking me, I'm disappointed that the company seemingly doesn't reach out to anyone but people like summit.

Summit had someone reach out and check on him and give him codes to give out to his viewers.

Does the regular Joe get that?

No.

That should make someone mad, but I'm just irritated and watching the game go down the toilet.

It's NOT just PVP:

The lag is affecting PVE to the point where dragon claws weren't even working for my guildmate.

Mad? no.

Confused and lost as to where the COMPASSION and HUMAN element is in this company? yes.

And you should be too.

EDIT: also the "DATA" needed is on youtube, anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder can see the game performed WAY better in ANY video that includes a "V14"

That concludes the "test" and we need to look at what was added since then.

AOE's,

have,

always,

been,

spammed.

SmukkeHeks

Elder Scrolls has a type brand that could be the disrupters of the gaming industry. They could move away from the predictable lifecycle of a mmo and create something entirely else. A game based on the deeply rooted loyalty they enjoy from a huge player base, constant conversations with those who has hours upon hours of practical knowledge of the mechanics, creating a platform that would hurl huge amounts of cash into their fundings.

It would demand a total reconstruction of the organization. It would be a long road. It would need a new use of the forums. It’s complicated.

But it would probably have spared us for many frustrations, had it been that way. I’m doubting we’d hang on to the year long bridge, building upon foundations that aren’t stabile enough for the next layer.

We wouldn’t have had those tests, in a Cyrodiil that has so many others issues. Simply because it would have been anchored in factual knowledge and not data points

Luckylancer

Players want less lag. ZoS is trying to reduce lag right now without buying more hardware. They prefer nerfing their player's play style over spending for hardware.

Players dont like Bethesta, EA, Activation-Blizzard as much as CD projekt and obsidian(as far as I know). I hope those companies that care about players will rise over time.

redshirt_49

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

Aurielle

Snowgoons wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

EDIT: also the "DATA" needed is on youtube, anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder can see the game performed WAY better in ANY video that includes a "V14"

That concludes the "test" and we need to look at what was added since then.

AOE's,

have,

always,

been,

spammed.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS is hoping that no one actively playing has been around for long enough to remember what the game used to be like years ago, and that claiming they’ve identified a “likely” culprit for the poor performance will be enough to pacify those who don’t know the difference. It’s a real slap in the face to anyone with a 2014 forum join date...

I’d give anything to go back to pre-One Tamriel days.

SamanthaCarter

No Aoe spam back to first year of release ! You can see it on my YouTube channel my 1vs20 fights were fluid and smooth

Tandor

Snowgoons wrote: »

You guys just throw new crown store items in our faces, say it's this season and this event, like not one time, have I seen anyone from ZOS come in, and even ask players what they would prefer on ANYTHING. Even when it's warranted.

Like the upcoming AOE changes, wasn't even proposed, just tell us like children what's happening, and we just have to go with it.

No choice in any matter.

It's become a big issue ZOS, no ones gonna just magically forget what you're doing.

Good. I'm glad developers don't look to players to tell them what they want the whole time. Player choice isn't to do with how the game is managed, it's about whether you want to play this game or some other game.

That said, if you have a particular idea or desire for the game there are ways of putting it forward such as through the feedback function or even here on this very forum. Just because developers don't engage with you in any such thread doesn't mean they don't read it.

Aurielle

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from ZOS’s extensive track record of not listening to the community.

The PVP community on the whole is telling ZOS that it does not want cooldowns on AOEs. Do we need AOE cooldowns? No, because we remember and have lots of footage of old AOE-heavy fights that performed well on campaigns that were WAAAYYY fuller than they are today.

Will ZOS listen to us? Nah, they will most likely continue to [snip] us and tell us that AOE is the problem and destroy combat for absolutely no reason. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

TineaCruris

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from the fact that ZOS doesn't cater to or communicate well with their customers. The complaints, almost all of them, are about lag, and how, for years, ZOS has not fixed it and it's only gotten worse. They've shown us that they can fix it, but they chose not to for some reason, and that reason is almost certainly that they refuse to invest in the hardware needed to support their software now that they have so many hooked on the game. (yes, I'm saying ZOS deals with it's customers like a dealer deals with their junkie customers....because they can get away with it)

zaria

Aurielle wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

EDIT: also the "DATA" needed is on youtube, anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder can see the game performed WAY better in ANY video that includes a "V14"

That concludes the "test" and we need to look at what was added since then.

AOE's,

have,

always,

been,

spammed.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS is hoping that no one actively playing has been around for long enough to remember what the game used to be like years ago, and that claiming they’ve identified a “likely” culprit for the poor performance will be enough to pacify those who don’t know the difference. It’s a real slap in the face to anyone with a 2014 forum join date...

I’d give anything to go back to pre-One Tamriel days.

We know the good performance in PvP back at launch was because client did much more of the calculations.

Downside was that this made it easy to cheat so they moved the calculation to server instead of an harder to implement solution.

Now the random loading screens are obviously the server who struggles.
Low frame rate in large fights is just as much an client issue.
If you get it just watching an Alkir zerg well that is an client issue.

And yes I played during beta and for one year, say the benefits back then was cyrodil was better.
Also overland was harder but you had to going the right direction and not getting lots of xp from other sources or it become to easy and you did not get any loot.

Gorreck

zaria wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

EDIT: also the "DATA" needed is on youtube, anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder can see the game performed WAY better in ANY video that includes a "V14"

That concludes the "test" and we need to look at what was added since then.

AOE's,

have,

always,

been,

spammed.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS is hoping that no one actively playing has been around for long enough to remember what the game used to be like years ago, and that claiming they’ve identified a “likely” culprit for the poor performance will be enough to pacify those who don’t know the difference. It’s a real slap in the face to anyone with a 2014 forum join date...

I’d give anything to go back to pre-One Tamriel days.

We know the good performance in PvP back at launch was because client did much more of the calculations.

Downside was that this made it easy to cheat so they moved the calculation to server instead of an harder to implement solution.

Now the random loading screens are obviously the server who struggles.
Low frame rate in large fights is just as much an client issue.
If you get it just watching an Alkir zerg well that is an client issue.

And yes I played during beta and for one year, say the benefits back then was cyrodil was better.
Also overland was harder but you had to going the right direction and not getting lots of xp from other sources or it become to easy and you did not get any loot.

This last year however, especially in PvP things have just got worse, even from 18 months ago, performance-wise.

I never got mini-loading screens every 10 second riding across a deserted corner of Cyrodill until this year (ever).

scorpius2k1

Well, when the #1 priority is monetization and things continue to change in the direction that they have for 6+ years with nothing more than false promises, are we really surprised? The bigger question here is who are the bigger fools here, the company for neglecting something with so much potential or us players ourselves for accepting it and believing things will change? They won't. [snip] Our opinions are just that - opinions. It's gone on far too long. Eventually players will have had enough of it. Sadly, I don't think ZoS will realize it until it's too late.

I want to trust and believe again...

[edited for bashing]

EdmondDontes

Gorreck wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

You seem angry. Maybe time for an afk break?

The AOE changes are there to collect data. They are testing various options, not implementing them all, permanently, all at once.

Bet you live playing Cyro in its current state. Where the game plays like a slide show and none of your skills work?

EDIT: also the "DATA" needed is on youtube, anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder can see the game performed WAY better in ANY video that includes a "V14"

That concludes the "test" and we need to look at what was added since then.

AOE's,

have,

always,

been,

spammed.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS is hoping that no one actively playing has been around for long enough to remember what the game used to be like years ago, and that claiming they’ve identified a “likely” culprit for the poor performance will be enough to pacify those who don’t know the difference. It’s a real slap in the face to anyone with a 2014 forum join date...

I’d give anything to go back to pre-One Tamriel days.

We know the good performance in PvP back at launch was because client did much more of the calculations.

Downside was that this made it easy to cheat so they moved the calculation to server instead of an harder to implement solution.

Now the random loading screens are obviously the server who struggles.
Low frame rate in large fights is just as much an client issue.
If you get it just watching an Alkir zerg well that is an client issue.

And yes I played during beta and for one year, say the benefits back then was cyrodil was better.
Also overland was harder but you had to going the right direction and not getting lots of xp from other sources or it become to easy and you did not get any loot.

This last year however, especially in PvP things have just got worse, even from 18 months ago, performance-wise.

I never got mini-loading screens every 10 second riding across a deserted corner of Cyrodill until this year (ever).

It's gotten way worse, and their solution appears to be take away combat mechanics that were commonplace in game when everything worked properly. It makes no sense.

Thechuckage

First and foremost the company has to show a profit to the shareholders. Seems like that is definitely happening (looking at you "subbed on 2+ accounts" and/or "spend $500 on crown crates every month" type players) As long as the cash keeps rolling in, the top will be happy.

Second, is it good for the health of the game. There is no question that performance is sucking. But any changes have to work with the coding and engine, then it would be nice if they wouldnt be stupidly broken. Basically, fitting the developers vision.

Players desires come dead last. Why, you might ask? People might want things that diametrically oppose one another. Or want things that just cant work with the current game.

Nothing is stopping you from championing your cause, but it might not be universal. And individuals solutions are damn sure not universal.

Tandor

What matters to most people is whether they enjoy playing the game. That's it really, except that I don't understand the reasoning behind those who don't enjoy the game still being here, and in many cases still playing a game they don't enjoy and whose developers they hold in contempt for one (largely imagined) reason or another.

As for those wanting the game to be tweaked to their particular fancy, that rather reminds me of when I was working (I'm now retired) and producing expert witness reports. I had the occasional client who wanted to write the report themselves and just get me to sign and present it - they got short shrift and were invited to look elsewhere. It's the same with the game, it's for the developers to design the game and for players to decide whether they want to play it.

Gilvoth

i know for a fact zenimax eso employees listen to and think about everything we say and do here on forums and ingame. ALOT of what i have seen people ask for does get [ut ingame, most of the time.
they create insightful responses ingame top the requests we make. just that sometimes what WE or one person might think is good for the game is really not good for the game and could destroy fun for alot of people or even Destroy the game as it is if certain ideas are followed, so the devs im sure vote on and discuss and think about the ideas we suggest and they do what is best for the game instead of just Blindly doing everything suggested which is quite smart of them.

Kadoin

For the 10th time, about performance being better before all of these patches, esp. Homestead, that's...you know...!

We don't talk about that.

Phew, that line is lifesaver when its hard to argue.

vestahls

lol Why should they pay attention so long as that Plus money keeps coming in? It doesn't matter how much feedback they get, whether that feedback is fact-based, whether it comes from new players or from end-game players.

idk

Snowgoons wrote: »

You guys just throw new crown store items in our faces, say it's this season and this event, like not one time, have I seen anyone from ZOS come in, and even ask players what they would prefer on ANYTHING. Even when it's warranted.

I read this first paragraph complaining that Zos keeps throwing new crown store items our way with even asking player what they would prefer.

When Zos was preparing to add the crown store they created the Crown Store Item Wish List thread that is still active today. So Zos did, in fact, ask us what we wanted in the crown store and has kept the thread active. Linked below for your reference.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146991/crown-store-item-wish-list/p1

idk

TineaCruris wrote: »

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from the fact that ZOS doesn't cater to or communicate well with their customers.

Au contraire. While I agree Zos does not communicate well, and they have admitted as much on multiple occasions, Zos has shown a great willingness to listen to the customer. It is just that we customers often disagree amongst ourselves.

Customers asked for faction lock PvP. Zos gave it to us. Customers complained about being paired against pre-mades in BGs and Zos made the queue solo only. Console asked for buff/debuff trackers and Zos added it to the base game. Players asked for multi-craft and Zos added it to the base game.

Those happen to be four cases that jump out at me without having to do any thinking.

Rungar

I dont think they are so bad , not that i agree with some things, but i imagine at this point they are worn out on eso. For us who have been playing a couple of years is one thing but for many zos people this is year 11 and only the last three were what i would call "comfortable" for zos.

idk

Rungar wrote: »

I dont think they are so bad , not that i agree with some things, but i imagine at this point they are worn out on eso. For us who have been playing a couple of years is one thing but for many zos people this is year 11 and only the last three were what i would call "comfortable" for zos.

If you are talking about it being 11 years for many Zos people, this is year 13 for some. Rich Lambert has been with Zos for 13 years and two months while Matt Firor just had his 13th anniversary with Zos. Others have already had their 13 year anniversary with the company or are coming up to that point.

EdmondDontes

idk wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from the fact that ZOS doesn't cater to or communicate well with their customers.

Au contraire. While I agree Zos does not communicate well, and they have admitted as much on multiple occasions, Zos has shown a great willingness to listen to the customer. It is just that we customers often disagree amongst ourselves.

Customers asked for faction lock PvP. Zos gave it to us. Customers complained about being paired against pre-mades in BGs and Zos made the queue solo only. Console asked for buff/debuff trackers and Zos added it to the base game. Players asked for multi-craft and Zos added it to the base game.

Those happen to be four cases that jump out at me without having to do any thinking.

Two of those four points are somewhat legitimate. The buff tracker and mulit-craft were add-ons ZOS incorporated into the game.

idk

EdmondDontes wrote: »

idk wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from the fact that ZOS doesn't cater to or communicate well with their customers.

Au contraire. While I agree Zos does not communicate well, and they have admitted as much on multiple occasions, Zos has shown a great willingness to listen to the customer. It is just that we customers often disagree amongst ourselves.

Customers asked for faction lock PvP. Zos gave it to us. Customers complained about being paired against pre-mades in BGs and Zos made the queue solo only. Console asked for buff/debuff trackers and Zos added it to the base game. Players asked for multi-craft and Zos added it to the base game.

Those happen to be four cases that jump out at me without having to do any thinking.

Two of those four points are somewhat legitimate. The buff tracker and mulit-craft were add-ons ZOS incorporated into the game.

Considering one of the reasons Zos gave for making the other two changes were players asking for them all are legit. Heck, threads complaining about pre-mades in BGs and lack of action lock, regardless of how unwarranted they both were, filled the forums. Even the addition of a faction change token was something Zos added because of the relentless requests some players made.

Firstmep

Gilvoth wrote: »

i know for a fact zenimax eso employees listen to and think about everything we say and do here on forums and ingame. ALOT of what i have seen people ask for does get [ut ingame, most of the time.
they create insightful responses ingame top the requests we make. just that sometimes what WE or one person might think is good for the game is really not good for the game and could destroy fun for alot of people or even Destroy the game as it is if certain ideas are followed, so the devs im sure vote on and discuss and think about the ideas we suggest and they do what is best for the game instead of just Blindly doing everything suggested which is quite smart of them.

Im sorry but if you think that, you are very out of touch with whats going on.

This new combat team has implemented changes time and again, that no one asked for.

Theyre buffing procsets, when people already complain about them being too strong in no cp.

Theyre nerfing templar in pvp, while the class is still one of the best pve dps, and pretty average in pvp at best.

We have left them 100+ pages worth of feedback here and on the pts, and they listened to exactly nothing.

And this is just 1 patch, this happened last cycle and the one before etc.

No on asked for Dots to be as strong as they made them back then, we left them the feedback that it would be way to op.

Guess what dots went live op af anyway.

Then 3 months later they nerfed them back to become even worse than before the buff.

There are a plethora of bugs on the pts already reported, like Power of the Light hitting much lower numbers than its supposed to. Its been there since week one, still not fixed.

They ARE ignoring feedback, wheter its beacuse they dont have the capacity to comb through every or they just think they know better is irrelevant.

Pretty much anyone that plays templar in pvp can tell you that the nerfs were completely unnecessary, we left the feedback, literally nothing changed.

Tandor

idk wrote: »

TineaCruris wrote: »

redshirt_49 wrote: »

This idea that ZOS does not listen to the community, I'm not so sure where it comes from.

If a developer only ever does what a community wants, rather than what the game actually needs, you end up with garbage.

Keep in mind, most of the time the community can't even AGREE on what it wants. Someone, somewhere on these forums is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with anything the devs decide.

It comes from the fact that ZOS doesn't cater to or communicate well with their customers.

Au contraire. While I agree Zos does not communicate well, and they have admitted as much on multiple occasions, Zos has shown a great willingness to listen to the customer. It is just that we customers often disagree amongst ourselves.

Customers asked for faction lock PvP. Zos gave it to us. Customers complained about being paired against pre-mades in BGs and Zos made the queue solo only. Console asked for buff/debuff trackers and Zos added it to the base game. Players asked for multi-craft and Zos added it to the base game.

Those happen to be four cases that jump out at me without having to do any thinking.

Here's another one: Players asked for the ability to move characters around on the selection screen. We can.

And, of course, the two biggest ones - a change in business model away from forced subscriptions, and the ability to play with our friends regardless of their alliance, i.e. One Tamriel.

I'm afraid that when people complain that ZOS don't listen, what they mean is "They don't listen to ME"...

Klad

PVP players are so miserable...I just don't get why they stick around, the silly three banners war is going to end because it's too big a drain on the engine and has a tiny yet super vocal minority.

OldManJim

Well here’s 2 recent / current examples where ZoS has dumped a bombshell on players and has refused to engage in any dialogue with us paying customers:

-VMA weapons;
-Swapping vigour with rapids.

The closest we have gotten to any communication is forum mods editing and closing threads. When asked to pass on our concerns to the dev team they say “We aren't involved in communicating deeper game discussion, and leave those conversations to the Community Managers and Developers”. In other words “not our problem”.

YandereGirlfriend

I think that it is a disingenuous argument when some say "Players can't even agree on changes, why should ZOS listen to them?"

It is... not difficult... to filter out the "Joined forum in the current month, has 5 posts to their name and all are on the same topic" rant-laden, misspelled screeds from the voices of respected, long-time players who obviously know what they are talking about, and, more often than not, can back it up with data.

The simple fact is that long-time players have played more of the game, are better at the game, and likely know more about the game than the actual developers do and that should not be particularly surprising.

Every PTS there are changes that are prima facie mistakes and they are typically caught and identified as such immediately by knowledgeable players. The tragic irony of the PTS is that those posts are almost universally ignored and we have to live through the forever cycle of "Players identify X change as tragically flawed, ZOS does it anyway, ZOS overreacts next patch and rashly implements a new, completely avoidable mistake." It is, frankly, Groundhog's Day every PTS cycle.

And ZOS knows this. They say so every patch. And yet their approach never actually changes.

I can understand wanting to shield the developers from the angry wrath of Twitch chat randoms but I would love to see like a round-table discussion (or simply read a conversation transcription) between highly knowledgeable players (e.g. Innos, Code, and more) and the developers where they go through the patch notes and bounce ideas, observations, and feedback off of one another. And not simply for empty PR purposes, but rather for the goal of improving the finished product of the patch.

I truly do not think that a system such as that is too much to ask and I believe that it would help them "Break the wheel" (sorry, Denaerys!) of the current cycle of Potemkin PTSs,