You know why a lot of people don't pvp?

Snowgoons

Because you allow 810+ players to come into pre 50 cyrodiil with max gear on low level alt characters and curb stomp everyone thinking they are actually good at the game.

I don't understand how seemingly no one has the competence to see this is also what deters people from pvping.

This is your first experience in anything but BG, and you're going against people who won't leave the campaign and just keep remaking the same character.

It's been an issue since launch, and ZOS has done absolutely nothing.

Can I suggest a solution?

Perhaps give everyone a starter set based on class and spec, that rivals maybe a purple set of crafted gear?

I just literally watched from my keep a Magplar jabbing 5-10 noobs to death, when I whispered him why he wasn't in a different campaign, he replied "I'm a god here"

It's just absolutely, stupid.

You need to give people the right tools to do a job, or else they aren't going to do it. They especially aren't gonna spend the time farming everything to compete against people who have stacked twinked characters. Someone wake up.

robpr

On a side note, a BG mode where everybody would have the same, specific non-proc sets would be dope.
I've noticed that a trend of modes like this is starting, even Dungeon Fighter Online implemented one to lure people into fighting.

Yuffie91

I thought it was because of the lag

Snowgoons

robpr wrote: »

On a side note, a BG mode where everybody would have the same, specific non-proc sets would be dope.
I've noticed that a trend of modes like this is starting, even Dungeon Fighter Online implemented one to lure people into fighting.

Yes! This! You wanna prove you're so cool mr 810? Do it on equal footing. Then well see who's killing 5-10 spamming one skill.

Yuffie91 wrote: »

I thought it was because of the lag

I mean it's that too, but that aside, how is an average player supposed to fight someone in all gold gear maxed in every possible way?

That player can take resources solo, kill entire small man groups solo, how is the average player that just started during the free weekend let's say, supposed to compete???!?

Pre 50 cyrodiil, infested with 1000+ cp players. Ridiculous what's the point? Why isn't it a small scale battleground for N E W players?

Anony_Mouse

CP aren’t enabled in the below lvl50 campaign tho, are they?

MincVinyl

Snowgoons wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

On a side note, a BG mode where everybody would have the same, specific non-proc sets would be dope.
I've noticed that a trend of modes like this is starting, even Dungeon Fighter Online implemented one to lure people into fighting.

Yes! This! You wanna prove you're so cool mr 810? Do it on equal footing. Then well see who's killing 5-10 spamming one skill.

Yuffie91 wrote: »

I thought it was because of the lag

I mean it's that too, but that aside, how is an average player supposed to fight someone in all gold gear maxed in every possible way?

That player can take resources solo, kill entire small man groups solo, how is the average player that just started during the free weekend let's say, supposed to compete???!?

Pre 50 cyrodiil, infested with 1000+ cp players. Ridiculous what's the point? Why isn't it a small scale battleground for N E W players?

you know in u50 when you hit level up from 49-50(cp810) you lose all battle scaling. How lowbie battle scaling works is your hp pool and how certain stats scale based on your level with lvl36 giving you your strongest possible build. Yes an equally skilled lvl48 vs a lvl36 duel will pan out with the lvl36 winning,

In lowbie nobody golds out gear, there is no point. The only thing that matters is purpling out your main damage bar weapon, every 2 levels (easily achievable by asking for crafters in zone chats) usually crafters will make lowbie gear for free anything over 10k gold(5 mins of farming) is a ripoff.

Crafted gear is the best to use in lowbie due to how scaling on item sets works, anything that is not crafted will suffer penalties stat wise. Ex: a gold nirn hundings 2hGS will give like 700 more weapon damage vs a gold nirn briarheart 2hGS

On PCNA a good 60-70% of the people in lowbie are rerolls that have played there since launch.
Reasons:

1. Best server performance
2. Huge build diversity
3. No monster sets
4. No proc sets
5. Best in slot meta of the month is extremely rare
6. No ability meta (hard to have the perfect bar setup)
7. limited aoe/cc options (every player in zergs wont have every form of cc at all times)
8. Most people know each other and hold events, even across factions

---

as for battlegrouns the que systems have been broken for about a year now, but zos is turning what little pvp brainpower they have towards cyrodil performance

JayKwellen

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

CP aren’t enabled in the below lvl50 campaign tho, are they?

Nope, but it doesn't matter. Those CP1000+ people are rocking perfectly theory crafted builds with all gold gear. Even without CP they could be quite trash and they'd still roll over the actual new players venturing into Cyrodiil (or BG's) for the first time with their random overland dropped items, solo-questing builds, and lack of knowledge on basic PvP combos and defense.

I see people here suggesting that everyone be given the same equipment, but honestly that wouldn't really do much either. At the bare minimum a competent PvPer (not even amazing skilled, literally just anyone who's been PvPing for a while and trying to improve themselves) is still going to know how to time a delayed burst combo, how and when to CC, how to react to and avoid another players burst, how to kite and LOS, and how to make a functional PvP build. I know people like to meme about how there's no skill in ESO's PvP, but there's still a large amount of knowledge and ability required to bridge the gap between "mediocre" and "good", and this is why the experienced players will always trounce the new ones, "equal playing field" or no.

Put any competent PvPer against a true low-level/newbie, even with no CP and all standardized gear, and the new guy is getting curb stomped. Like, American-History-X-Teeth-Smashed-On-The-Pavement stomped. Also, fighting a true newbie is painfully obvious. Anyone who's even a little bit predatory is going to instantly know "this dude is free AP", and thus the farming will continue unabated.

The only way to make lowbie Cyrodiil and BGg's not a complete slaughter for the younglings would be to restrict access to only actually new players. Either only people with no CP at all, or only up to some random arbitrary limit like 200 or whatever. Problem then becomes that the population is likely way to low to sustain such a system, so it would end up more dead than it is now.

Tandor

People don't PvP because they aren't interested in it. You can propose all the changes you like to Cyrodiil and accuse the developers of incompetence in not following your advice but the bottom line is that even if those changes were introduced those who don't PvP still wouldn't do so, it just doesn't appeal to them and never will.

Snowgoons

JayKwellen wrote: »

Anony_Mouse wrote: »

CP aren’t enabled in the below lvl50 campaign tho, are they?

Problem then becomes that the population is likely way to low to sustain such a system, so it would end up more dead than it is now.

That's exactly why i wouldnt do it like that, they need equal gear, people can learn the game and theres random scenarios and 3 sides, like I feel that's a better solution than restricting to only new players.

Literally I hate to say it but I really think maybe there's one person working on PVP in house that just ensures BGs and Cyrodiil get properly maintained to the bare absolute 1 person total minimum.

It's the only logical explanation for what's going on, and if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me ANYONE.

EDIT: and I'd like to add, by the looks of things, that person has other tasks to handle as well. There's no way with how Cyrodiil hasn't progressed in like every possible aspect, that more than one person is looking at this even half a day.

Pauwer

I only pvp and it's ok if someone is better than me, it only makes me want to get better myself. I started like everyone else, was the biggest noob of all times, tried many set and skill combos, learned to counter different classes, etc. To get better and eventually it happened and i do ok and absolutely love pvp. I don't think i would so much if there weren't players better than me out there, because it would just be boring to win all times, you know?

Snowgoons

Pauwer wrote: »

I only pvp and it's ok if someone is better than me, it only makes me want to get better myself. I started like everyone else, was the biggest noob of all times, tried many set and skill combos, learned to counter different classes, etc. To get better and eventually it happened and i do ok and absolutely love pvp. I don't think i would so much if there weren't players better than me out there, because it would just be boring to win all times, you know?

That's cool and all, but the current situation is the equivalent of you being dropped in the desert with one bottle of water and a sword,

and everyone else has a dune buggy with a chain gun on top and unlimited food and water back at their base.

The only way to get better is to skip the entire campaign, then gear up a character well before you even make it, to ensure you can even be on a level playing field, then you have to worry about how good they actually are behind all the fluff.

It's too much bs for the average player to overcome and get better and pvp, I had this talk with guildmates who only pve, they said everyone is trying so hard in pvp (with regards to having way better gear in pre 50) it's not enjoyable because you have to basically get the equivalent of steroids to compete.

Luckylancer

What happens if sub 50 gold gear is nerfed in to purple gear and this way removed from aub 50 game? A new player never gonna make a item gold anyways.

Pauwer

I pvp just fine with purple gear btw, the golding out don't have that much of a difference if you gonna lose a fight, i don't think gold gear would save you.

SamanthaCarter

Skills are required for Vx and carry zergs that’s why

anitajoneb17_ESO

I don't PvP (much) for 2 reasons :
- PvP mentality (hate whispers, provocation, teabagging)
- I suck at it.

Note that if the 1st reason was out of the way, I'd probably do what it takes to remove the 2nd reason.

But none of those reasons have anything to do with your claim.

Ri_Khan

ESO PvP is one of the most imbalanced, exploitable and uncompetitive games I've ever played. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

SamanthaCarter

It’s very balanced i’m op on all class and i can kill everyone with my 18 characters so the issue is not the game but the player

Guthix_of_the_Green

I dont pvp because im not going to be spending 10k + on respeccing my skills talents and ARMOR - just to survive.

Literally 2 abilities and im dead on the floor.

I lay there as a ghost and watch 1 person tank 4 other teamates and their health bar dropping.

ayu_fever

i only show up in pvp to get 25k AP for the 50 transmutation crystals at the end of the campaign.

i do not care pvp itself, or how i perform at it.
i am not there for anyone else.
i am not there for the objective.
i do not care if i get wrecked, i just respawn and try again.
i just spam heals and get AP with no regards to anyone or anything.
as soon as i hit 25k i leave no matter what.

there are tons of players who are also there for the crystals, so why not just put the 50 crystals in the crown store?
i would avoid pvp like the plague until the eso servers are shut down.

less players, less lag, shorter queue time, better performance, zos makes millions from crystals purchases in the crown store while we pve carebears get to “pay to skip” the pvp parts of the game.
literally everyone wins.

the lower player count is from the ones who there dont want to be there anyway but are forced into it because of reasons!
dont you want my money zos? i have so much of it i want to give you.
there is literally no reason to not do this.

Sergykid

pvp requires a heavy amount of dedication and research to be able to compete, even if you simply copy a build from the internet. People don't wanna play building and theorycrafting simulator. I understand some work necessary towards the build, but too much math and stats to count. I would eliminate things like traits or mundus just to be easier to build a character.

SamanthaCarter

PvP is the reason why we stay on this game and get radiants apex for example

SamanthaCarter

ESO can live without PVE but not without PVP

anitajoneb17_ESO

SamanthaCarter wrote: »

PvP is the reason why we stay on this game and get radiants apex for example

Is it ?
Oddly enough, I've been playing 6+ years without hardly PvPing.

TineaCruris

Yes. Most people have quit PvP due to lag issues. That is why.

Aurielle

I don’t PVP (or play this game in general) anymore for one reason and one reason only: Cyrodiil performs like garbage. Why would I waste my time and money on a PVP game that constantly crashes, sends me into load screens in the middle of nowhere that usually result in my death, and prevents me from using my abilities against opponents for 3+ seconds at a time?

Gorreck

Tandor wrote: »

People don't PvP because they aren't interested in it. You can propose all the changes you like to Cyrodiil and accuse the developers of incompetence in not following your advice but the bottom line is that even if those changes were introduced those who don't PvP still wouldn't do so, it just doesn't appeal to them and never will.

No one does anything, until they do it.

However IF your first experience of something is terrible (either because of terrible performance, or because you get rolfstomped by a twink in fully golded gear) they you ARE less likely to keep doing it or try it again.

If you do into your first dungeon and get repeatedly insta-killed for reasons you don't understand, then you aren't especially likely to venture into one again, that doesn't make someone an anti-dungeon player however, it just makes some that had a bad experience.

Rungar

i thought they should of made an account based highest rank distinction for cyrodiil campaigns to let people learn to play without getting constantly rolled.

rank 0-25 normal cyrodiil
rank 26(0*)-50 vet cyrodiil ( *anyone can join this one any rank.)

the under 50 and no cp mean nothing really vs hardcore players and organized groups

Vanagrand

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't PvP (much) for 2 reasons :
- PvP mentality (hate whispers, provocation, teabagging)
- I suck at it.

Note that if the 1st reason was out of the way, I'd probably do what it takes to remove the 2nd reason.

But none of those reasons have anything to do with your claim.

High end PVE comunnity is probably the most elitist part the game.

Far more than the PvP one.

Vanagrand

PvP requires a lot more of the player than PVE that is mostly copy this build, follow this rotation, kill everything in your path.

When this people try PVP and dont understand why even following Alcast build they are getting smashed they prefer to go back to the safe spot of PVE. And i dont blame them, PVP is not a curve of learing, is a stair. And a lot of people dont like/wish to do the effort.

hakan

this is the least grindy mmo with the least required time invested to do pvp/pve. and skill effects are pretty explanatory on their own not like BDO where they have secret cancels and hand breaking combos.

You only need gold weaps, purple armor doesnt have much difference compared to gold.

With all this, i dont think people dont want to pvp because of the reasons you said. They just dont wanna.. and thats okay.

JanTanhide

Well, there are entire guilds devoted to "below level 50" PVP and they delete their characters once they achieve CP status and start over.

They recycle their gear onto the new characters and go at it again. TBH I don't have an issue with this. Some players just don't want to play in CP land. But yeah, I get what the OP is saying.

Also, with the ability to buy Skill lines (once unlocked on any other character on your account and maxed out) this too leaves the new players under powered. When you are on a Lowbie with 2 racial passives unlocked and three DPS skills and go against another level 14 player with all skill lines unlocked that matter you will get wrecked.

But hey, players asked for the Skill lines to be purchased and ZOS gave us that opportunity. I wouldn't do it at all. It is extremely costly but then again I'm sure some players do.