Public Dungeons are bad

AefionBloodclaw · August 13

Notice how most replies here ignore the actual original post and reasons why public dungeons are bad. Lorebreaking and unneccessary grind.

Eifleber · August 13

There days everything is easy and easier, not sure why. 95% of the game content is a complete walkover by design, that's not unique to public dungeons. Bosses same. I was also surpised when the Sload boss in one of the Summerset public dungeons proved to be easily soloable.

And lots of mobs: if you want to grind xp or gold it's not that bad, they go down fast enough. Personally I don 't see the problem.
Besides with so many people running around in some public dungeons its sometimes hard to find a group at all. Sometimes I wonder if a few public dungeons (veteran delves) shouldn't be solo content so you have a bit of a challenge and you don't have to wait endlessly for bosses to respawn.

Thechuckage · August 13

This just highlights difficultly the scaling is horribly done. Maxed out DPS just have to fart at a trash pack and they are obliterated. Even my tanks that moon-light as a poormans DPS are never in any danger and can mow thru 3-4 trashpacks at once with no danger.

Couple the poor damage scaling (enemy) with increasing power creep on gear, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out whats going to happen. Its almost like the scale was stopped at 160. Now this wouldn't be the magic bullet, but it would probably ameliorate some of the complaints about things being too damn easy, while not impacting the lower level / new characters.

Jeremy · August 13

Thechuckage wrote: »

This just highlights difficultly the scaling is horribly done. Maxed out DPS just have to fart at a trash pack and they are obliterated. Even my tanks that moon-light as a poormans DPS are never in any danger and can mow thru 3-4 trashpacks at once with no danger.

Couple the poor damage scaling (enemy) with increasing power creep on gear, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out whats going to happen. Its almost like the scale was stopped at 160. Now this wouldn't be the magic bullet, but it would probably ameliorate some of the complaints about things being too damn easy, while not impacting the lower level / new characters.

They are just glorified delves. The regular enemies don't even seem to be any stronger. There's just more of them.

I say this a lot on here: but I think the best solution to this problem would be to just make two versions of each zone. One normal version - then another Veteran version that is more appropriately scaled for experienced players. That should make everyone happy.

Lixiviant · August 13

I look forward to the public dungeons because there ARE other players in there. I have a good time, meet new people and sometimes join a Guild. I don't hear people screaming at each other (such as Group dungeons) or seeing people get kicked.

Thechuckage · August 13

Jeremy wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

This just highlights difficultly the scaling is horribly done. Maxed out DPS just have to fart at a trash pack and they are obliterated. Even my tanks that moon-light as a poormans DPS are never in any danger and can mow thru 3-4 trashpacks at once with no danger.

Couple the poor damage scaling (enemy) with increasing power creep on gear, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out whats going to happen. Its almost like the scale was stopped at 160. Now this wouldn't be the magic bullet, but it would probably ameliorate some of the complaints about things being too damn easy, while not impacting the lower level / new characters.

They are just glorified delves. The regular enemies don't even seem to be any stronger. There's just more of them.

I say this a lot on here: but I think the best solution to this problem would be to just make two versions of each zone. One normal version - then another Veteran version that is more appropriately scaled for experienced players. That should make everyone happy.

The current scaling (overworld / delve / PD) are all poorly done. I dont know if it was the gear or CP power creep or just the Law of Unintended Consequences, but its is a thing. Seems like that would be a lot easier to implement (and be a lot less complaining from the "people will just farm vet overland" or "vet 16 craglorn"

Considering group delves in craglorn can be pretty easily solo'd, yeah, we are way more powerful than the old Vet days.

Dusk_Coven · August 13

They all need to be changed into solo dungeons so mobs of players can't bulldoze through and make it no challenge for other people inside.

Jeremy · August 13

Thechuckage wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

This just highlights difficultly the scaling is horribly done. Maxed out DPS just have to fart at a trash pack and they are obliterated. Even my tanks that moon-light as a poormans DPS are never in any danger and can mow thru 3-4 trashpacks at once with no danger.

Couple the poor damage scaling (enemy) with increasing power creep on gear, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out whats going to happen. Its almost like the scale was stopped at 160. Now this wouldn't be the magic bullet, but it would probably ameliorate some of the complaints about things being too damn easy, while not impacting the lower level / new characters.

They are just glorified delves. The regular enemies don't even seem to be any stronger. There's just more of them.

I say this a lot on here: but I think the best solution to this problem would be to just make two versions of each zone. One normal version - then another Veteran version that is more appropriately scaled for experienced players. That should make everyone happy.

The current scaling (overworld / delve / PD) are all poorly done. I dont know if it was the gear or CP power creep or just the Law of Unintended Consequences, but its is a thing. Seems like that would be a lot easier to implement (and be a lot less complaining from the "people will just farm vet overland" or "vet 16 craglorn" Considering group delves in craglorn can be pretty easily solo'd, yeah, we are way more powerful than the old Vet days.

I think you're right when you say it's just scaled to 160 and stops. Or it may not even go up that far.

If they had a veteran version that scaled upward to say the current CP cap or maybe even higher for public dungeons I think it would help a lot. I also think you're right when you say they could do it easily if they wanted. I have some experience at game design and it's not difficult to scale enemies. Even in my limited experience I was able to figure out how to program that. So it's just a matter of them wanting to do it or not. Their programmers would probably be able to adjust something like that in a single evening.

RebornV3x · August 13

almost all overland, quest and public dungeon bosses including the "group" events need a difficulty pass just did Labyrinthian and these are supposed to done with a group I soloed the place on a level 24 with no cp these areas used to be difficult pre One Tamriel.

lol I remember killing Zumog Phoom in under 10 second on my Necro i was leveling and doing the Elswyer main quest they spent the whole DLC hyping this guy I only realized it was him after looting him kinda killed questing in this game for me after that and made me have second thoughts on getting any future chapters only bought Greymoor on sale.

Fur_like_snow · August 13

Lore can be explained away. The difficulty is by design because Zeni caters to low APM grandmas who struggle with a basic rotation. Most content in the game including the majority of world bosses are face roll easy.

Mettaricana · August 13

Darkstorne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

In a bold new world, where creativity in this genre can finally reign free, I dream of an ESO 2 where the game designers think about when it's useful to have players around you, and when they detract from the experience, rather than saying "this is how MMOs have always worked before, so it's how MMOs should always work in the future".

I dream of an ESO2 where you only run into other players in central hub cities and around specific group locations like world bosses/dolmens, so that overland content and delves can be designed without an overabundance of XP pinatas constantly respawning after 30 seconds, but we still run into friendly faces when they're beneficial (world bosses and dolmens for example) and not when they're a nuisance (the quest NPC says you're the first person to step into these ruins for over a thousands years, yet there are several players running and jumping about spamming flashy abilities on all the respawning mobs...)

I like running into players in the world, though. Even in games where it's not an advantage.

When it comes at the cost of respawning mobs and breaking quest immersion though? So many crutches of MMO design that could be solved by phasing players in for specific group events only. You'd still run into other players, and cities would still be social hotpsots. And you could still travel with friends everywhere by grouping up. The current design adds very little for a huge amount of game design sacrifices.

Defiance mmo did good everything but their equivalent of dungeons could be done solo or as a group if you on a quest and anyone else on that quest it'd instantly make their progress count towards yours. Public events like ark falls could solo or group them or like 1000 player assault them and it kept scaling to player numbers so content was never 1 shot no skill over leveled. Could repeat any story mission or quest for xp if in a party with someone doing it and at end of main campaign could reset the entire thing and do it again reclaim rewards named items etc. Arkfalls were plentiful and it gave players multiple ways to level either quests group events mini events, just enemy farming etc it was glorius unfortunately the next gen revamp fell a bit short and gated alot of content but overall the concept was great there was never a stand around in town with nothing to do moment always something engaging to get involved with solo of group and then it had an awesome pvp mode.

Darkstorne · August 13

eKsDee wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

In a bold new world, where creativity in this genre can finally reign free, I dream of an ESO 2 where the game designers think about when it's useful to have players around you, and when they detract from the experience, rather than saying "this is how MMOs have always worked before, so it's how MMOs should always work in the future".

I dream of an ESO2 where you only run into other players in central hub cities and around specific group locations like world bosses/dolmens, so that overland content and delves can be designed without an overabundance of XP pinatas constantly respawning after 30 seconds, but we still run into friendly faces when they're beneficial (world bosses and dolmens for example) and not when they're a nuisance (the quest NPC says you're the first person to step into these ruins for over a thousands years, yet there are several players running and jumping about spamming flashy abilities on all the respawning mobs...)

That defeats the purpose of being an MMO. So, no. If you want a single player experience, go play the single player TES games. ESO shouldn't be bent and mangled into some single player MMO hybrid any more than it already is.

And yet single player is how the vast majority of the playerbase engages with ESO. There's good reason One Tamriel was so popular, and Craglorn's group focused content was never repeated.

I'll always be amused by comments like yours: "but that's not how MMOs work". It certainly could work. You'd still run into players frequently, just not when you want to quest and engage in solo content. You'd only run into them during content designed for groups (which in an MMO, is a lot). I know, it's a mind-bending concept to grapple for a lot of people for some reason, but given how the majority engage with this game it would clearly be insanely popular as a design direction, especially when it means content can be designed without dated crutches like respawns.

EDIT: Don't just take my word for it, look at how ZOS chose to showcase their official gameplay footage for Greymoor. Completely single player, immersive walking speed and often first person, no other players around even in Solitude. They know most of their playerbase wants to play this like an Elder Scrolls game:

Thechuckage · August 13

RebornV3x wrote: »

almost all overland, quest and public dungeon bosses including the "group" events need a difficulty pass just did Labyrinthian and these are supposed to done with a group I soloed the place on a level 24 with no cp these areas used to be difficult pre One Tamriel.

lol I remember killing Zumog Phoom in under 10 second on my Necro i was leveling and doing the Elswyer main quest they spent the whole DLC hyping this guy I only realized it was him after looting him kinda killed questing in this game for me after that and made me have second thoughts on getting any future chapters only bought Greymoor on sale.

Nothing better than beating down a boss with timed monologues "You dont stand a chance" and I'm looking at the remaining 5% of his healthbar, seconds into the fight. Yup, no chance at all.

Jayman1000 · August 13

All trash mobs exist to me only as red outlines briefly flashing before their miserable existence is ended. I dont know whether or not these poor souls have seen things we wouldn't believe, but they always wither away so quickly, lost in time like tears in the rain, then quickly replaced by a new batch.

Athan1 · August 13

I think public dungeons work fine and I enjoy soloing them or teaming up with peeps I encounter in there.

Everest_Lionheart · August 13

Jayman1000 wrote: »

All trash mobs exist to me only as red outlines briefly flashing before their miserable existence is ended. I dont know whether or not these poor souls have seen things we wouldn't believe, but they always wither away so quickly, lost in time like tears in the rain, then quickly replaced by a new batch.

I barely even see the red outlines with my bling bling disco Templar! Blazing spear, unstable wall of storms, solar barrage, flash, flash dead!

Dark_Lord_Kuro · August 14

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

Why do the devs think its cool to have mobs every 5 metres? EVERY 5 METRES? I've just done Nthchuenkarst or whatever it's stupid name is and instead of a Skyrim or Morrowind like immersive dungeon I get a complete mess filled with mobs every 5 metres and bosses that instead of being fun to fight or challenging go down in 2 hits. There is nothing engaging or fun about this, OR Labyrinthian, in that one there are Draugr Deathlords as TRASH MOBS even though they are supposed to be, and shown to be in Skyrim, as powerful, ancient warriors, with shouts and who are pretty badass and tough in combat. Here they are nothing. Do the devs even care about the lore at all? This is pathetic, there was even a Dragon Priest in that dungeon, who couldn't even stand up to us for 10 seconds before going down. That was supposed to be a Dragon Priest. You don't even get a mask or anything of any value for defeating it. Is this the quality paying customers can expect now, just a few bad stories thrown together in an afternoon with some thoughtless mobs dropped mindlessly throughout an otherwise beautifully rendered game world?

Oh and 50 fragments to get one of those target dummies. 50??? Are you kidding? Who decided that would be fun and engaging content? So you have to run the public dungeon at least, say 30 times or something to get all the fragments? What is the purpose of this? You get no profit from forcing players to do this, there is nothing to be gained from forcing players to do this. Or is this the pre-emptive strike to forcing people to buy the target dummy from the crown store at a later date? Urrgh >:(

This is a plea to fix the public dungeons, put some effort into the writing and lore and take out those mindless grinds that actually make no sense.

It normal for you to not take his mas as he wllbstill have his mask when the dragon born face him in about 1000 years and he will be the one to take th3 mask. It wouln't make any sence for you to take it

Dark_Lord_Kuro · August 14

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

In a bold new world, where creativity in this genre can finally reign free, I dream of an ESO 2 where the game designers think about when it's useful to have players around you, and when they detract from the experience, rather than saying "this is how MMOs have always worked before, so it's how MMOs should always work in the future".

I dream of an ESO2 where you only run into other players in central hub cities and around specific group locations like world bosses/dolmens, so that overland content and delves can be designed without an overabundance of XP pinatas constantly respawning after 30 seconds, but we still run into friendly faces when they're beneficial (world bosses and dolmens for example) and not when they're a nuisance (the quest NPC says you're the first person to step into these ruins for over a thousands years, yet there are several players running and jumping about spamming flashy abilities on all the respawning mobs...)

Way off topic, but I just dream of an ESO world since we are all on the same megaserver already and don't need to port to our friends instance to see them 99% of the time if we are in the same zone. Dungeons, Trials, group content, etc...makes sense BUT If I goto a city, I should see my friend or others there too automatically. Kind of makes the whole "megaserver" seem more like a split server which is probably the case in the backend. I understand there are reasons for this but I'm gonna pull the WoW card here and say that you NEVER had to port to anyone if they were in the same area, they were just there.

More potential QOL idea to be put on the backburner, i know...performance first.

But in wow as far as i know (i dont own a pc) you get many completly separated server with no way of playing with player on the other side(not sure if there is a world transfer for reel$ system) wich in my opinion is way worse than this
At leas in eso you can meet any player that play your platform on the same region a you