Would we like to see a AoE taunt for tanks?

Tommy_The_Gun

Yes

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

What are you guys even discussing here?

Aoe taunt will come with the next patch if you like it or not. You can even backbar it. And with tormentor + stampede you can use it on any class
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=243576
Switch oblivions for ebon, backbar tormentor and you will have next patches meta pve tank. Your welcome.

Yep. It also works with Werewolf Brutal Pounce. And this is pretty much (I think) the only useful case for it.

Werewolf tank is relatively a "new thing". AOE taunt should work well as WW skills are quite expensive so "spamming" taunt (as tanks often have to do with Puncture when there is a lot of larger mobs / dangerous enemies) won't be an option. Especially if you consider that after pounce, you can not use it for some time as skill changes to "Carnage" for 5 seconds.

For a "regular" tank it won't be optimal at all - as it requires a whole 5 pcs set. Wasting a whole set for that is um... a waste...

All in all - No one is commanding you to use it. But it is nice to have options.

Varana

No

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

The problem is if they die, they will start yelling "taunt the mobs, useless tank" and kick you from group. I know because it has happened to me. When DDs start running and leave group behind, I follow them slowly without sprinting and let them deal with the trash mobs by themselves.

You're a tank. Just queue again and let them deal with finding a replacement.
This happens, but it doesn't happen every time.

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Perhaps intentionally lagging behind and leaving your group out to dry is the reason you've been kicked?
...
I liken tanks who intentionally lag behind and then play the the 'you agro it you tank it' game to drivers on the highway who pull out in front of you in the passing lane and then proceed to continue driving at the same slow speed they were driving at in their slow people lane holding up a line of traffic behind them. I'm pretty sure we would all vote to kick those people off the road if we could.

I don't sprint through dungeons, period. I don't dally around but I have better things to do with my stamina than sprinting. And I don't see a reason why anyone would sprint through a dungeon, except for some dedicated speed runs where beating the time may actually be a close affair.
Sprinting through a dungeon is like driving 150 when the speed limit is 120.

OlumoGarbag

Indifferent

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

What are you guys even discussing here?

Aoe taunt will come with the next patch if you like it or not. You can even backbar it. And with tormentor + stampede you can use it on any class
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=243576
Switch oblivions for ebon, backbar tormentor and you will have next patches meta pve tank. Your welcome.

Yep. It also works with Werewolf Brutal Pounce. And this is pretty much (I think) the only useful case for it.

Werewolf tank is relatively a "new thing". AOE taunt should work well as WW skills are quite expensive so "spamming" taunt (as tanks often have to do with Puncture when there is a lot of larger mobs / dangerous enemies) won't be an option. Especially if you consider that after pounce, you can not use it for some time as skill changes to "Carnage" for 5 seconds.

For a "regular" tank it won't be optimal at all - as it requires a whole 5 pcs set. Wasting a whole set for that is um... a waste...

All in all - No one is commanding you to use it. But it is nice to have options.

As far as i tested it ww pounce doesent proc it aoe. Or did they change the skill?

Tommy_The_Gun

Yes

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

What are you guys even discussing here?

Aoe taunt will come with the next patch if you like it or not. You can even backbar it. And with tormentor + stampede you can use it on any class
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=243576
Switch oblivions for ebon, backbar tormentor and you will have next patches meta pve tank. Your welcome.

Yep. It also works with Werewolf Brutal Pounce. And this is pretty much (I think) the only useful case for it.

Werewolf tank is relatively a "new thing". AOE taunt should work well as WW skills are quite expensive so "spamming" taunt (as tanks often have to do with Puncture when there is a lot of larger mobs / dangerous enemies) won't be an option. Especially if you consider that after pounce, you can not use it for some time as skill changes to "Carnage" for 5 seconds.

For a "regular" tank it won't be optimal at all - as it requires a whole 5 pcs set. Wasting a whole set for that is um... a waste...

All in all - No one is commanding you to use it. But it is nice to have options.

As far as i tested it ww pounce doesent proc it aoe. Or did they change the skill?

It should, as they did exact same change to it as Stampede:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537057/pts-patch-notes-v6-1-0#latest

Stampede (morph): This morph now also causes the initial hit to deal Area of Effect damage on impact.

Brutal Pounce (morph): Fixed an issue where this ability’s damage was split into two attacks, rather than a singular attack of Area of Effect damage

If it does not, then it is a bug, as this skill is a leap & AOE, while Stampede is charge & AOE - both should proc Tormentor with AOE effect.

Edit:
I went on PTS and placed 3 training dummies in a close proximity. When Attacked with Lotus Fan - only one had Tormentor de-buff (taunt) symbol. But, When attacked one of them with Stampede or Brutal Pounce - all of them had Tormentor de-buff on them.... So yeah, it seems it should work when it goes live

Wandering_Immigrant

No

Varana wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Perhaps intentionally lagging behind and leaving your group out to dry is the reason you've been kicked?
...
I liken tanks who intentionally lag behind and then play the the 'you agro it you tank it' game to drivers on the highway who pull out in front of you in the passing lane and then proceed to continue driving at the same slow speed they were driving at in their slow people lane holding up a line of traffic behind them. I'm pretty sure we would all vote to kick those people off the road if we could.

I don't sprint through dungeons, period. I don't dally around but I have better things to do with my stamina than sprinting. And I don't see a reason why anyone would sprint through a dungeon, except for some dedicated speed runs where beating the time may actually be a close affair.
Sprinting through a dungeon is like driving 150 when the speed limit is 120.

I really don't keep very close tabs on my speedometer. I expect to see all dungeons multiple times, some runs will be fast some will be slow, I mostly just keep with the flow of traffic. I was just pointing out the fallacy in making zero attempt to keep up and intentionally not controlling the room when you do catch up all to stick-it-to the impatient runner, and then acting like it's not your fault they died.

I prioritize smooth runs over all other factors, so as long as I'm being given enough support to keep up with someone setting a hasty pace while still having enough stamina for all those better things then I see no reason to not fulfill my role by keeping everyone alive.

VaranisArano

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

Perhaps intentionally lagging behind and leaving your group out to dry is the reason you've been kicked?
...
I liken tanks who intentionally lag behind and then play the the 'you agro it you tank it' game to drivers on the highway who pull out in front of you in the passing lane and then proceed to continue driving at the same slow speed they were driving at in their slow people lane holding up a line of traffic behind them. I'm pretty sure we would all vote to kick those people off the road if we could.

I don't sprint through dungeons, period. I don't dally around but I have better things to do with my stamina than sprinting. And I don't see a reason why anyone would sprint through a dungeon, except for some dedicated speed runs where beating the time may actually be a close affair.
Sprinting through a dungeon is like driving 150 when the speed limit is 120.

I really don't keep very close tabs on my speedometer. I expect to see all dungeons multiple times, some runs will be fast some will be slow, I mostly just keep with the flow of traffic. I was just pointing out the fallacy in making zero attempt to keep up and intentionally not controlling the room when you do catch up all to stick-it-to the impatient runner, and then acting like it's not your fault they died.

I prioritize smooth runs over all other factors, so as long as I'm being given enough support to keep up with someone setting a hasty pace while still having enough stamina for all those better things then I see no reason to not fulfill my role by keeping everyone alive.

Sure. Keep pace with the group. I don't intentionally lag behind, though I do tend to stick to the pace of questers if there are any.

And I've met plenty of people who ran ahead and could handle themselves. Great! No problem.

But when my "healer" takes off, leaving me behind with the two DDs, aggros the boss + mobs and dies five seconds into the fight, you bet I'm laughing at them.

OmniDo

Yes

As a Tank, I find taunting every single mob to be quite a headache, and difficult to manage since each Taunt only lasts 15 seconds. As for Bosses, theyre a synch.

But to be able to grab say, 3 at a time...
Now that would add a whole new level of gameplay.

A cone AoE, or perhaps a targeted AoE, that would be highly useful.
Could even be a low-cost ultimate.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

No

I have a Templar tank wearing the Tormentor set. Tanking with that setup in normal dungeons is very easy, but boring.

A typical fight consists of me zapping around the room with Explosive Charge, and using the odd Silver Leash or Inner Fire on single targets, to make all the trash and any bosses gather in one spot, and then I keep hitting Explosive Charge every 15 seconds to keep everything on me all the time. Wearing a leeching set for my second set, one that scales with the number of enemies around me, I can keep all aggro and survive indefinitely. In many fights I don't even need to block.

However, attempting this in vet dungeons is a stretch at best. The damage from vet mobs is strong enough not to be outhealed by a leeching set, and I either become dependent on the healer or need to spam my own self-heals and shields to stay alive when everything in the room is hitting me, and only me. It's a drain on resources, and it's simply not a good strategy.

In trials, it's pretty useless. As an off-tank in normal trials, sure, it's nice to keep everything off the back of the DDs, in fact I've had some very nice runs in normal trials with the setup, but in vet mode the damage becomes overwhelming, and I think it should be. Being hit by 20 mobs from all sides should hurt, and I don't think a tank should be able to survive that easily in vet mode.

The game is designed for selective, strategic tanking, to require healers and DDs to be aware of the threats around them, to move, dodge and to prioritize targets, and for the group to work as a team. I like that. A lot. If all fights were to become "tank absorbs all damage, healer heals tank, DDs do their rotations", I would very quickly lose interest in the game.

Moonsorrow

No

Just no.

daemonios

No

AoE taunts are a terrible idea that has been suggested and rejected by the majority many times. It would make PvE extremely boring, as nobody except the tank would have to pay attention to anything. It would make cc pointless in PvE. It would make even tanking a boring chore, as it would remove the need to prioritize targets that can makes their mates dead, or range taunt/chain/leash ranged enemies into the group's AoEs.

I'm surprised as many people vote for AoE taunts as the poll shows. Hopefully ZOS have a strong opinion about this and won't be swayed by vocal whining, as they have in other matters...

daemonios

No

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I liken tanks who intentionally lag behind and then play the the 'you agro it you tank it' game to drivers on the highway who pull out in front of you in the passing lane and then proceed to continue driving at the same slow speed they were driving at in their slow people lane holding up a line of traffic behind them. I'm pretty sure we would all vote to kick those people off the road if we could.

I don't believe a tank "intentionally lags behind" anyone. But when stamina management is an important part of tanking, especially in vet content, you can be sure I'm not going to sprint behind a Sorc spamming lightning form, or a wings-spamming warden, to start a room or boss fight on an empty stamina bar. And I've had many of those in my group. As others have said: you pull it, you tank it.

Raudgrani

Yes

Yes, but it would probably be considered "too OP", which might have some truth to it. We are supposed to rely on CC's for that, if we follow game mechanic philosophy.

But sometimes it's a problem, an example I can think of is that "puzzle phase" in Mazzatun, where a number of brutes rush onto the players from several directions, along with smaller less dangerous adds - sometimes the smaller ones are in the way, so that you can't taunt the "biggies"; and someone will get shield bashed by them and die (and the no-death run is now a death run). As a tank I try to slap down like Talons or Wall of Frost with the destro backbar, in order to slow them down. NB fear is also ok, so that you get those couple of seconds to catch the attention of the big ones.

But an AOE taunt - yeah, it would be awesome. But I don't think they will allow it anytime soon.

Varana

No

If you are the first to get damage in, either by Wall or Caltrops or some other AoE skill, the mobs should be soft-taunted to you for 7 seconds (iirc), giving you a bit of time to pick your priority targets. It can be quite unreliable in larger stacks but takes off some of the pressure.

Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »

I really don't keep very close tabs on my speedometer. I expect to see all dungeons multiple times, some runs will be fast some will be slow, I mostly just keep with the flow of traffic. I was just pointing out the fallacy in making zero attempt to keep up and intentionally not controlling the room when you do catch up all to stick-it-to the impatient runner, and then acting like it's not your fault they died.

I prioritize smooth runs over all other factors, so as long as I'm being given enough support to keep up with someone setting a hasty pace while still having enough stamina for all those better things then I see no reason to not fulfill my role by keeping everyone alive.

No one in this thread talked about "zero attempt to keep up", except you.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

No

There are already AOE taunts in the game for some classes. For example templar.

AlnilamE

No

OmniDo wrote: »

As a Tank, I find taunting every single mob to be quite a headache, and difficult to manage since each Taunt only lasts 15 seconds. As for Bosses, theyre a synch.

But to be able to grab say, 3 at a time...
Now that would add a whole new level of gameplay.

A cone AoE, or perhaps a targeted AoE, that would be highly useful.
Could even be a low-cost ultimate.

I'm trying to think of any dungeon that has more than 3 heavies in a group, so taunting them separately should not be a problem once you've done the dungeon a few times and know who your priorities are. As other said, if you go in first with an AoE (Caltrops, Wall of Elements or a class AoE) you will have soft taunt for the beginning of the fight and you can easily taunt your actual targets while the DPS take care of the weaker mobs.

But it takes practice, and getting the initial aggro.

code65536

No

Not this dead horse again.

Thechuckage

No

code65536 wrote: »

Not this dead horse again.

The DPS are just parsing on it.

noblecron

Yes

I would love a taunt that could taunt all the npcs in a dungeon. Then it would save me the hassle of targeting multiple npcs and taunting them becuase when I first got into tanking I was told I had to taunt everything in a dungeon and if I didn't I'd get yelled at or kicked

josiahva

No

honey_badger82 wrote: »

I have 2 tanks I play and one of them I have given up using the inner range taunt on, I find it more effective to use a gap closer then pierce armor. I cant count how many times I kept taunting the same enemy straight in front of me when trying to target a ranged enemy much further away. Also many of the dungeons have mobs so large its impossible for the tank to control anything past the first 2 seconds of the fight and even worse when the dps or healer runs in first and steals the initial aggro.
Aside from voting consider putting how you would implement a AoE taunt if your for it. If you disagree and comment be constructive, there is way to much toxicity on this forum as it is.
Personally I would change the undaunted ranged taunt as such:

Base cost: 4320 magicka or stamina, whichever max is LOWER (high enough to be useful but too high to spam and constantly overcast)
Range: 22m with radius of 10m and duration of 15 seconds
Base ability effect: Launch yourself up to 22m into combat with the enemy. Upon landing apply minor fracture & breach to all enemies inside radius for 10 sec.
Morph option 1: Same as base with- Stun enemies within the radius for 2 seconds upon landing. Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to taunt up to 3 additional enemies outside the radius, this ability can be activated once per cast.
Morph option 2a: Same as base, increase radius to 12m and duration of minor fracture & breach by 2 seconds. Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to stun all enemies in the radius for 2 sec, once per cast.
Morph option 2b: Same as 2a except for 2nd activation- Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to re-center AoE on your current position, refreshes taunt on all enemies within the new radius for the remaining time of initial cast. This does not re-apply minor fracture & breach to enemies not included in the initial cast.

Your premise is flawed, it is NOT impossible to grab aggro on an entire mob, and ranged ads have several solutions depending on class. This is how I aggro an entire mob:

1: I first throw down a caltrops(well, I used to do it this way, easiest for newer tanks). Caltrops does damage and gives you threat priority to a mob, it also applies a snare to slow down enemies....while this snare is active, you run up and use puncture or one of its morphs on all enemies.
2. When that portion is finished(maybe 2-3 seconds if you are fast) you then turn your focus to ranged ads. During this entire time you are moving, getting a clear shot at the ranged ads, you do not LET the melee ads body block you from ranged taunting(if that is what you are doing), then you pull in the ranged ads....DK is obviously best for this with chains, but silver leash can be subbed for other classes, warden can gate them in, necro has that skill that automatically pulls a ranged ad every 3 seconds(to use this you will need to range taunt or otherwise aggro the ad). By the time you pull in the last ranged ad, unless the DPS is abysmal, the rest of the mob is already dead. Done right, no ads aggro on the DPS, maybe one or two at the outside....there are some exceptionally large mobs that are more difficult...Fungal Grotto 1 comes to mind...but they are few and far between, most are only 5-7 ads. I mention DK as the best for this mainly because of chains...not only is it a ranged pull, but it is a free cast if they are not pulled, and its is psuedo-taunt...it does not taunt exactly, but it jumps to the top of the threat list for ads and will aggro them on you for a few seconds at least....usually enough to get them to come to you even if they arent pulled and then you use puncture and keep them.

There are other ways to accomplish the same thing, if you arent able to control all the ads, its a lack of experience, NOT a lack of an AOE taunt. I dont mean to say "git gud", I mean to say that you are not correctly utilizing the skills you have available, and AOE taunt would make this game horrible, it would make tanking way too lazy and uninteresting...active ad management is part of what makes tanking challenging in this game.

I usually end up taunting all the things in most fights...but taunting all the things isnt even needed, your job is to control the biggest threats...I don't think ZOS ever intended the DPS to sit in one spot and ignore ads all day long so they could get a perfect rotation, the fights are action fights and active dodge rolling and blocking by players is what the gameplay is designed around....an AOE taunt would put newer players in group play at a sever disadvantage, they would never learn proper survival skills.

stevenyaub16_ESO

No

Aoe taunt would make tanking gameplay really dull.

amm7sb14_ESO

noblecron wrote: »

I would love a taunt that could taunt all the npcs in a dungeon. Then it would save me the hassle of targeting multiple npcs and taunting them becuase when I first got into tanking I was told I had to taunt everything in a dungeon and if I didn't I'd get yelled at or kicked

Let me tell you right now that every single mob is not your responsibility. In a regular trash fight, get as many as you can. In a fight with heavy hitter adds, you prioritize them. While there are a lot of DPS in this game that want 0 responsibility in group content outside of just parsing, the fact is that they are responsible for managing the little adds and taking them down. It is unnecessary to taunt every single thing in the room.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Indifferent

in a way you have an aoe tuant let tank go in first and do aoe damange

Jeremy

honey_badger82 wrote: »

I have 2 tanks I play and one of them I have given up using the inner range taunt on, I find it more effective to use a gap closer then pierce armor. I cant count how many times I kept taunting the same enemy straight in front of me when trying to target a ranged enemy much further away. Also many of the dungeons have mobs so large its impossible for the tank to control anything past the first 2 seconds of the fight and even worse when the dps or healer runs in first and steals the initial aggro.
Aside from voting consider putting how you would implement a AoE taunt if your for it. If you disagree and comment be constructive, there is way to much toxicity on this forum as it is.
Personally I would change the undaunted ranged taunt as such:

Base cost: 4320 magicka or stamina, whichever max is LOWER (high enough to be useful but too high to spam and constantly overcast)
Range: 22m with radius of 10m and duration of 15 seconds
Base ability effect: Launch yourself up to 22m into combat with the enemy. Upon landing apply minor fracture & breach to all enemies inside radius for 10 sec.
Morph option 1: Same as base with- Stun enemies within the radius for 2 seconds upon landing. Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to taunt up to 3 additional enemies outside the radius, this ability can be activated once per cast.
Morph option 2a: Same as base, increase radius to 12m and duration of minor fracture & breach by 2 seconds. Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to stun all enemies in the radius for 2 sec, once per cast.
Morph option 2b: Same as 2a except for 2nd activation- Activate a 2nd time @ half cost to re-center AoE on your current position, refreshes taunt on all enemies within the new radius for the remaining time of initial cast. This does not re-apply minor fracture & breach to enemies not included in the initial cast.

Line of sight is annoying as ____ when you try to use inner rage as a main taunt. But at least it's way easier to use now than it used to be back when the cost were ridiculous. So I would not support any changes that increased its cost.

I think ZoS wanted tanks to use CC instead of AoE taunts - which is why they gave classes like Dragon Knights such great CC since they were originally suppose to be the tank class.

So maybe instead of an AoE taunt they could add some better area CC's through an alternative skill line or something.

honey_badger82

I am definitely in agreeance with NO after hearing everyone's say. I would like to think I do a fairly good job at controlling mobs, it can be tedious at times. Perhaps 15 seconds for a AoE taunt is too long, a large radius or conal 2sec might be better, something to help regain control over a chaotic mob (like DPS running around dragging whatever they aggro with them because they think running away from the healer with 3+ baddies on their tail is the best way to not die). Hell when your dps is on it a lot of times they burn mobs in 2 seconds anyways before soft aggro is even broken. Probably the biggest frustration with tanking though is non- tanks using taunts like being dps and using a frost staff. I even saw one guy once using inner rage/ beast, the animation for it flew right over me repeatedly as he apparently really wanted that bosses attention. After 3x punctures to keep it myself I let him have it, he died in less than 2 seconds.
And if the could program the daedroth summoned with the maw of the infernal monster set to flank attack instead of straight on blocking your view of the boss that would be great. Cant count how many times those damn daedroth have blocked the view on a heavy/ 1shot animation. Each time I try and reorient the boss so I can see the damned thing moves too.
Contrary to what @josiahva said the are many dungeons than fungal grotto with mobs greater than a dozen enemies; wayrest sewers 1&2, City of Ash, direfrost keep, darkshade caverns, blessed crucible, blackheart haven just to name a few. All these have multiple large scale mobs.
Still it seems best without one. Those who want to run ahead of me when I am tanking... well as several have said here I will deal with it once I get there.