The maintenance is complete and the PTS is now back online. The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test!
The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
Thrassian Stranglers 6.1.1 feedback and suggestions
Chael_Sonnen
Soul Shriven
I know this is a little late, but I would like to address some of the changes regarding the Thrassian Stranglers of PTS-patch 6.1.1. I'm afraid these changes will potentially kill off this unique and exciting set. Furthermore, from my perspective as an experienced DD these changes will unfortunately also result in the future of some unbeatable arena/trial scores. From a competitive standpoint that's a shame.
"After monitoring much of the sets' performance and metrics after Greymoor launched, we noticed the overall goal of people using the set was to sit at max stacks for as long as possible, and never really think about dumping them. The issues behind this stemmed from the fact it offered so much damage, that even if their character did die, they'd rather try again than not try at all."
It depends on the trial, it's not always that easy to get full stacks for everyone. Take for example vSS, some will be able to get 20, while others could be unlucky and not even reach over 5. The person with just 5 stacks would have been better off using something else.
However, the main problem with trials: there's a lot of possibilities for support to offer damage mitigation and therefor the set would be deemed too much reward for the risk, even so this set is more than just for trials. I suggest always have the 40% (or 50%) reduction in healing, shield efficacy and increased damage taken penalty active to counter this.
Something else I suggest in addition, as a penalty for using the Thrassian's add a reduction in the effectiveness of damage mitigation you gain through group support. One example is, the 30% redistributed damage by Guard is now only 15%, or Vrol's Command Major Aegis will only provide 7.5% instead of the usual 15% for those who decide to use the gloves.
"The issues behind this stemmed from the fact it offered so much damage, that even if their character did die, they'd rather try again than not try at all."
In the end-game community, players always want to keep improving. They'll try to aim for the max and in the perfect run you would never want to drop your stacks, so, if anything happens we'll reset. No one wants to die/reset on purpose it's just the way how stuff is done, with or without Thrassian's (especially on mini trials).
If this is the reason why stacks get a time limit I don't understand why, when a player die, they will keep their stacks? This might be a bug and thus will get fixed later. Although, some of these other changes will work counteractive nevertheless. Now, people will be even less encouraged to drop their stacks manually since they'll keep it anyway when they die.
Also, since the incoming damage per stack will go down from 2% to 1% it will be easier to deal with let's say... those 20 stacks you might be able to get in some trials, besides you'll have to collect a lot more stacks to make it even worth it. Now, less players would wanna drop them as a result. That is if people still choose to use them...
Let's take a look at how it would work: I can't see many players get 50 stacks, so, in general I think for trials this set will be pretty dead. The current 4 stacks will give 600 Spell Damage whereas on the PTS at the moment it will take 15 stacks. Like I've said, depending on the trial, it will be difficult for players to even reach an amount that will make this "mythic" item outperform simple alternatives. Building Spell/Weapon Damage will become too slow and trying to spread stacks evenly between players is already close to impossible so you can't really have just 1 or 2 players use the gloves and let them build up to 50 stacks, the killing blow is too unreliable.
Some stuff to keep in mind:
- Scores that are set now will not get beaten for a while anymore if ever, and that's discouraging. Scores should be able to be challanged and broken, it should encourage players to always see what is possible. However, if the potential power of this set gets reduced by 33% (let alone making it only more difficult to use in arena's and a slower damage build up added on top of that) a lot of scores that are being set now will sadly have a big gap with their future competition. It would be a shame to see so many scores that can't be beaten anymore even if it's my own in vMA.
- If so many trial groups are using the Thrassian's, how many teams have actually put up a Godslayer combined with a good score while all dds used the gloves? Only 2-3 teams on PC as far as I know.
- It depends on who you ask of course, but this set made the game more exciting than it's ever been. It felt fresh, been doing all the content again, old/new I've been enjoying it. I'm not alone the silent majority on console is with me, that's why I made this post.
Keep the gloves as they are on live, but...
- Make the 40 or 50% penalty an always active disadvantage.
- Make damage mitigation acquired by group support sets/buffs be reduced by 40 or 50% as well.
- Add an equal Weapon Damage to give stam some love.
Conclusion:
My only problem with Thrassian's is that stamina's were left in the dust before. I wouldn't nerf the power of this set as it will kill the ultimate high risk reward set, which we need in this game. If we are gonna make this set more difficult to use than why should we also make it weaker? I think making the 40% catch an always active disadvantage is a better way to deal with the "it's too easy to use" issue. I would keep the stacks to a limit of 20 with the same power as on the live server, but add something that damage mitigation is 40% less effective on it. This set was very exciting to use and broke the repetative easy mode of the game so please be careful with the changes to it. Overall, I think Greymoor was a good patch, every class has been relevant credits for that.
Edited by Chael_Sonnen on July 26, 2020 12:15PM "After monitoring much of the sets' performance and metrics after Greymoor launched, we noticed the overall goal of people using the set was to sit at max stacks for as long as possible, and never really think about dumping them. The issues behind this stemmed from the fact it offered so much damage, that even if their character did die, they'd rather try again than not try at all."
It depends on the trial, it's not always that easy to get full stacks for everyone. Take for example vSS, some will be able to get 20, while others could be unlucky and not even reach over 5. The person with just 5 stacks would have been better off using something else.
However, the main problem with trials: there's a lot of possibilities for support to offer damage mitigation and therefor the set would be deemed too much reward for the risk, even so this set is more than just for trials. I suggest always have the 40% (or 50%) reduction in healing, shield efficacy and increased damage taken penalty active to counter this.
Something else I suggest in addition, as a penalty for using the Thrassian's add a reduction in the effectiveness of damage mitigation you gain through group support. One example is, the 30% redistributed damage by Guard is now only 15%, or Vrol's Command Major Aegis will only provide 7.5% instead of the usual 15% for those who decide to use the gloves.
"The issues behind this stemmed from the fact it offered so much damage, that even if their character did die, they'd rather try again than not try at all."
In the end-game community, players always want to keep improving. They'll try to aim for the max and in the perfect run you would never want to drop your stacks, so, if anything happens we'll reset. No one wants to die/reset on purpose it's just the way how stuff is done, with or without Thrassian's (especially on mini trials).
If this is the reason why stacks get a time limit I don't understand why, when a player die, they will keep their stacks? This might be a bug and thus will get fixed later. Although, some of these other changes will work counteractive nevertheless. Now, people will be even less encouraged to drop their stacks manually since they'll keep it anyway when they die.
Also, since the incoming damage per stack will go down from 2% to 1% it will be easier to deal with let's say... those 20 stacks you might be able to get in some trials, besides you'll have to collect a lot more stacks to make it even worth it. Now, less players would wanna drop them as a result. That is if people still choose to use them...
Let's take a look at how it would work: I can't see many players get 50 stacks, so, in general I think for trials this set will be pretty dead. The current 4 stacks will give 600 Spell Damage whereas on the PTS at the moment it will take 15 stacks. Like I've said, depending on the trial, it will be difficult for players to even reach an amount that will make this "mythic" item outperform simple alternatives. Building Spell/Weapon Damage will become too slow and trying to spread stacks evenly between players is already close to impossible so you can't really have just 1 or 2 players use the gloves and let them build up to 50 stacks, the killing blow is too unreliable.
Some stuff to keep in mind:
- Scores that are set now will not get beaten for a while anymore if ever, and that's discouraging. Scores should be able to be challanged and broken, it should encourage players to always see what is possible. However, if the potential power of this set gets reduced by 33% (let alone making it only more difficult to use in arena's and a slower damage build up added on top of that) a lot of scores that are being set now will sadly have a big gap with their future competition. It would be a shame to see so many scores that can't be beaten anymore even if it's my own in vMA.
- If so many trial groups are using the Thrassian's, how many teams have actually put up a Godslayer combined with a good score while all dds used the gloves? Only 2-3 teams on PC as far as I know.
- It depends on who you ask of course, but this set made the game more exciting than it's ever been. It felt fresh, been doing all the content again, old/new I've been enjoying it. I'm not alone the silent majority on console is with me, that's why I made this post.
Keep the gloves as they are on live, but...
- Make the 40 or 50% penalty an always active disadvantage.
- Make damage mitigation acquired by group support sets/buffs be reduced by 40 or 50% as well.
- Add an equal Weapon Damage to give stam some love.
Conclusion:
My only problem with Thrassian's is that stamina's were left in the dust before. I wouldn't nerf the power of this set as it will kill the ultimate high risk reward set, which we need in this game. If we are gonna make this set more difficult to use than why should we also make it weaker? I think making the 40% catch an always active disadvantage is a better way to deal with the "it's too easy to use" issue. I would keep the stacks to a limit of 20 with the same power as on the live server, but add something that damage mitigation is 40% less effective on it. This set was very exciting to use and broke the repetative easy mode of the game so please be careful with the changes to it. Overall, I think Greymoor was a good patch, every class has been relevant credits for that.
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codierussell✭✭✭✭@Chael_Sonnen
First off, love the name as I am a big UFC fan.
Second, I agree with most of what you said. The main point I disagree with is that it isn't worth running over other sets. You have to think that Thrassian is replacing the monster set two piece. So in your example of someone making it all the way through a trial and having 5 stacks, personally I have always made it to 20 stacks unless I died, it is still very strong. From my experience and what I have seen on other streams a lot of people in a lot of different trials are able to achieve the 20 stacks, even with the new change you are still giving players 800 spell damage in return for not using a monster set.
Although, for much of the same reasons you have said I hope they revert these changes, I also don't think it will be dead. All the top score pushers and other players wanting to push as much damage as possible will have it to use. This is because the potential is still there to add a ton of damage but having max stacks isn't that big of deal as you still get more than any other monster set would add.0