How do you use Vampire skill Sated Fury and live?

SilverBride

This is such a great Vampire skill and I want to get proficient with it, but am not doing a very good job. Once I toggle it on I have to almost immediately toggle it back off, which doesn't give me time to use any other skill while it's active.

How do all you other Vampires manage to use this skill successfully?

Kilcosu

they don't.
it was good on pts until people preemptively complained about how overtuned it would have been and now it's fairly useless

SilverBride

Kilcosu wrote: »

they don't.
it was good on pts until people preemptively complained about how overtuned it would have been and now it's fairly useless

I see this skill included in every Vampire build I've found, and other posters mentioned using it in another thread, so I assumed it was a common part of a Vampire rotation.

Was I wrong? Should I just give up on it?

robpr

By turning it on and off every 2nd rotation. Easiest to survive on Templars, NBs and Sorcs.
In actual trial/fight you need to think twice when to turn it on. And even when you do, you have to stand as far from danger as possible.

SilverBride

robpr wrote: »

By turning it on and off every 2nd rotation. Easiest to survive on Templars, NBs and Sorcs.
In actual trial/fight you need to think twice when to turn it on. And even when you do, you have to stand as far from danger as possible.

Maybe that's part of my problem. I was always too close and getting hit.

TheImperfect

I was trying it tonight and I'm pretty new to the vampire changes. I found that timing it for 5 seconds seems ok and then switching it off because it plummets fast towards the end. Also staying at range as has been said as much as is possible.

YandereGirlfriend

This is what I do on my hybrid Dunmer Sorcerer:

1) Three tri-reduction glyphs on jewelry pieces to reduce the base cost. This is extremely important since the penalty scales beginning with this cost.

2) Critical Surge with a decent Critical Chance percentage. My hybrid sits at 60-63% for both Magicka and Stamina.

3) Use Rapid Strikes as your spammable (or the new Crystal Weapon once the patch hits) and Blood Craze as one of your DoTs.

4) Start it on the back-bar after you have laid down your AoE DoTs (they will scale up with the damage) and turn it off when your rotation resets.

With those methods, you can run the non-healing morph for 10+ seconds (aka for your entire rotation and then some) and get the damage boost to 1000 and up.

SilverBride

Those are some great ideas. I will give them a try.

Grianasteri

SilverBride wrote: »

This is such a great Vampire skill and I want to get proficient with it, but am not doing a very good job. Once I toggle it on I have to almost immediately toggle it back off, which doesn't give me time to use any other skill while it's active.

How do all you other Vampires manage to use this skill successfully?

3 key things you need to account for. Resistances, shields, and avoiding damage. Making sure these are all in effect, keeps you alive and you get to have sexy sexy boom time with the skill.

The other way I use it, is to specifically sit below 40% health, with a build that buffs my damage the lower my health is. This provides a huge amount of burst. Great for sneak attacks from stealth.

Algorax

SilverBride wrote: »

This is such a great Vampire skill and I want to get proficient with it, but am not doing a very good job. Once I toggle it on I have to almost immediately toggle it back off, which doesn't give me time to use any other skill while it's active.

How do all you other Vampires manage to use this skill successfully?

To get the most from this talent you need to build your whole character around it. This is the best way so far:

1) Roll a breton
2) Roll a nightblade
3) Reach vampire stage 4
4) Use the vampire lord set for weapon and jewelry
5) Chose an adequate HEAVY armor set for the body (better use shalk's exoskeletons bc you need fast ultimates)
6) Use the balorg head set (your whole playstile is based on overpowered transformations thanks to the vampire ult).
7) Get corrupting/purifying bloody mara
8) Bring your stats to a point where you have roughty the same amount of mana and magika (you should go past 30 k each)
9) Do everything you can to increase your rough spell power
10) Use the penetration traits on your weapons to compensate the lack of penetration form using the MANDATORY heavy armor

Make no mistake: vampire abilities in the current state ARE NOT designed to be efficiently used in a setting not entirely devoted to vampirism.
The stage 4 will lower the gamage you get from spamming blood for blood and keeping sated fury active.

Once you set your character ready you have done 50% of the work required to use this skill properly.
The other half is the harder part, which requires you to get your butt kicked several times bc you forgot to periodically toggle it off or, like in my case, bc it bugs and it either do not toggle when it should or "double toggles" and returns active without you even noticing it.

Succeed and you will have an unsuspectedly tanky character who regenerates alot of health and melts the enemy when the ult (who can be charged up really fast thanks to the ult cost reduction you get at stage 4 and the shalk set) is casted.
Your damage will explode thanks to sated fury plus the Balorgh set which, i remember you, is the more powerful the more ultimate points you have STORED at the moment of the cast, not based on the mere ult cost.

Vevvev

If I ever decide for some crazy reason to slot it I make sure my food buff is active and that I have some kind of offensive heal slotted. As a magDK I can greatly increase the time I can have the ability on by using Burning Embers which is a DoT that heals me once it ends for a large % of the damage done. Also have Radiating Regeneration that helps to on the Restoration Staff bar.

As for using the ability I try to turn it off after 5 or so seconds to reset the cost increase multiplier on it before turning it back on again. Since the ability operates off of the Global Cooldown I have found turning it on and off again a very trivial thing and Sated Fury is very forgiving compared to Simmering Frenzy. That heal at the end makes it usable in some kinds of content, although if you are going to be hit by a lot of powerful AOE attacks I honestly would slot something else if I were you.

amm7sb14_ESO

I pair it with Phoenix 5 piece set.

1. Drain health with Sated Fury to boost Spell Damage
2. Let health drain below 25%
3. ????
4. Profit: major AOE burst of fire damage + huge damage shield + Fury turns off, burst healing me back to full health

StarOfElyon

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is what I do on my hybrid Dunmer Sorcerer:

1) Three tri-reduction glyphs on jewelry pieces to reduce the base cost. This is extremely important since the penalty scales beginning with this cost.

2) Critical Surge with a decent Critical Chance percentage. My hybrid sits at 60-63% for both Magicka and Stamina.

3) Use Rapid Strikes as your spammable (or the new Crystal Weapon once the patch hits) and Blood Craze as one of your DoTs.

4) Start it on the back-bar after you have laid down your AoE DoTs (they will scale up with the damage) and turn it off when your rotation resets.

With those methods, you can run the non-healing morph for 10+ seconds (aka for your entire rotation and then some) and get the damage boost to 1000 and up.

I have an Altmer hybrid (crazy, I know). What gear do you use to get crit that high?

Spartabunny08

SilverBride wrote: »

This is such a great Vampire skill and I want to get proficient with it, but am not doing a very good job. Once I toggle it on I have to almost immediately toggle it back off, which doesn't give me time to use any other skill while it's active.

How do all you other Vampires manage to use this skill successfully?

We don't. That's why I call it the kill yourself button. I slotted this on two of my nightblades: a sniper and a bomber. (I have 13 characters and 11 of them are vampires). My thought process was that due to the play styles of these builds (sniper from a distance hoping to make a kill before they find me, and bomber not expecting to make it out alive anyway), that the skill would be more of an asset than a hindrance.

The biggest problem is the lag. Weapon swap is not functioning properly, skills are not activating properly. I may bar swap to get back to the skill, nothing happens, so I hit it again. Then it just swaps and swaps back, so no progress aside from time wasted. Or weapon swap didn't work and I accidently turn it on while trying to activate the skill tied to that button on the other bar.

Also, (ps4 here), it's not obvious enough when it's even on. It does indicate at the front of the buff bar, but when you're on a squishy nightblade, turn it on by accident and have 30 debuffs on you in the heat of battle, searching for that tiny square is difficult.

So long story short, I unslotted on my sniper and I'm still going to try to make it work on my bomber, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

YandereGirlfriend

@StarOfElyon For wont of a better option (acceptable for a hybrid but hopefully more double dual Crit Chance sets are coming) it's Twice-Born Star with Thief and Shadow plus one-piece Grundwulf and Slimecraw and New Moon.

It's dual-wield Swords with Nirn and Precise (though you could get higher with 2H and Precise), Medium Armor, and there is a Major Savagery/Major Prophecy/Health/Fortitude potion that covers those buffs (and helps manage health) and then finally Minor Prophecy from the Sorcerer passive.

Come next patch, there will be interesting options such as the new Assassin's Guile (double dual Critical Chance would be ~3% lower than with TBS) where you could use Minor Savagery/Minor Prophecy/Drain Health poisons (the latter effect to supplement healing and use Frenzy on classes with sub-par healing otherwise). The new Mechanical Acuity could also be intriguing to yield a high-ish average, if not constant, Critical Chance rate with minimal overall investment into it.

StarOfElyon

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

@StarOfElyon For wont of a better option (acceptable for a hybrid but hopefully more double dual Crit Chance sets are coming) it's Twice-Born Star with Thief and Shadow plus one-piece Grundwulf and Slimecraw and New Moon.

It's dual-wield Swords with Nirn and Precise (though you could get higher with 2H and Precise), Medium Armor, and there is a Major Savagery/Major Prophecy/Health/Fortitude potion that covers those buffs (and helps manage health) and then finally Minor Prophecy from the Sorcerer passive.

Come next patch, there will be interesting options such as the new Assassin's Guile (double dual Critical Chance would be ~3% lower than with TBS) where you could use Minor Savagery/Minor Prophecy/Drain Health poisons (the latter effect to supplement healing and use Frenzy on classes with sub-par healing otherwise). The new Mechanical Acuity could also be intriguing to yield a high-ish average, if not constant, Critical Chance rate with minimal overall investment into it.

It's a wonder you can sustain.

SilverBride

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

it's not obvious enough when it's even on.

This is one of my biggest problems with it. How can you tell when it's toggled on? Besides quickly dying, that is.

I don't see anything on my screen, or how my character looks, that indicates it's still active. Because as Spartabunny also mentioned:

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Weapon swap is not functioning properly, skills are not activating properly.

buttaface

Algorax wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is such a great Vampire skill and I want to get proficient with it, but am not doing a very good job. Once I toggle it on I have to almost immediately toggle it back off, which doesn't give me time to use any other skill while it's active.

How do all you other Vampires manage to use this skill successfully?

To get the most from this talent you need to build your whole character around it. This is the best way so far:

1) Roll a breton
2) Roll a nightblade
3) Reach vampire stage 4
4) Use the vampire lord set for weapon and jewelry
5) Chose an adequate HEAVY armor set for the body (better use shalk's exoskeletons bc you need fast ultimates)
6) Use the balorg head set (your whole playstile is based on overpowered transformations thanks to the vampire ult).
7) Get corrupting/purifying bloody mara
8) Bring your stats to a point where you have roughty the same amount of mana and magika (you should go past 30 k each)
9) Do everything you can to increase your rough spell power
10) Use the penetration traits on your weapons to compensate the lack of penetration form using the MANDATORY heavy armor

Make no mistake: vampire abilities in the current state ARE NOT designed to be efficiently used in a setting not entirely devoted to vampirism.
The stage 4 will lower the gamage you get from spamming blood for blood and keeping sated fury active.

Once you set your character ready you have done 50% of the work required to use this skill properly.
The other half is the harder part, which requires you to get your butt kicked several times bc you forgot to periodically toggle it off or, like in my case, bc it bugs and it either do not toggle when it should or "double toggles" and returns active without you even noticing it.

Succeed and you will have an unsuspectedly tanky character who regenerates alot of health and melts the enemy when the ult (who can be charged up really fast thanks to the ult cost reduction you get at stage 4 and the shalk set) is casted.
Your damage will explode thanks to sated fury plus the Balorgh set which, i remember you, is the more powerful the more ultimate points you have STORED at the moment of the cast, not based on the mere ult cost.

/thread, agree with the above entirely. Frenzy is a great addition to vamp.

The skill is made to be toggled on and off for a few seconds and used by a high stage vamp that is using the swarm ult (also striking from the shadows) and that ult is up frequently. OF COURSE it isn't going to end up beating youtube parse monkeys when built this way, but it will prove very powerful in actual use due to the extra tankiness and 20 second bursts of damage frequently.

Mine is a breton warden with shalk's 2 body/jewelry, vamp lord rest of pieces with decisive ice staff front bar and maelstrom back and Bogdan set. It was made for funsie pve, but works so well and satisfying and FUN that am going to rebuild an impen set gank. I see people complaining about this skill today being underpowered, well duh if you are trying to use it on a stage 1-2 vamp. In a month or two there will be complaining and nerf crying. Watch.

A high stage vamp with vamp lord set can keep it up for quite some time, especially if LA weaving on a class that has a LA heal like Warden or NB. If in ult, can keep it permanently as long as there is something to hit. Bogdan works great but other heal monster sets work also. If you want a straight line dps, use something else, if you want a bursty? New vamp is great.

Folks if you want a stand toe to toe character, you'll be better off with a werewolf. New vamp is every bit as powerful as new WW but different. But if you caught exercising that uber spell pwr of a Stage 4 at the wrong moment? Toast. That's balance.

SilverBride

Algorax wrote: »

To get the most from this talent you need to build your whole character around it. This is the best way so far:

1) Roll a breton
2) Roll a nightblade

No. I shouldn't have to make a one size fits all cookie cutter build to be able to play as a Vampire... which all races and classes are supposed to be able to play.

I am a High Elf Magika Sorcerer Vampire. That is what I want to play, and that is what I will play.

buttaface wrote: »

Folks if you want a stand toe to toe character, you'll be better off with a werewolf.

I have a Werewolf, and now I have a Vampire. I shouldn't have to choose one or the other.

I started this thread for advice on Sated Fury. Not to be told I have to reroll to something I don't want to be, or to play a Werewolf instead.

YandereGirlfriend

@StarOfElyon On the topic of sustain, it can be dicey in a group that is light on synergies but Sorcerers do have the benefit of across-the-board cheaper skills and the Prismatic reduction glyphs allow for both Magicka and Stamina skills costing less than they do on pure characters specialized in only one attribute.

I also slot and use the Magicka-restore morph of Overload for any moments when extra Magicka is needed and my skills are ever-so-slightly heavier in Magicka-draw for precisely that reason. I'm excited for the new Crystal Weapon though, as it should make sustaining a little bit easier. Last thing is that I'm tempted to drop NMA due to its impending nerf and transition to either Dragonguard or Axiom, which would further improve things though at the cost of Penetration. I'm also only a Stage One vampire so those cost increases there are still modest.

Spartabunny08

SilverBride wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

it's not obvious enough when it's even on.

This is one of my biggest problems with it. How can you tell when it's toggled on? Besides quickly dying, that is.

I don't see anything on my screen, or how my character looks, that indicates it's still active. Because as Spartabunny also mentioned:

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Weapon swap is not functioning properly, skills are not activating properly.

I don't know your platform, but on PS4, under options, there is a setting to turn on buffs/debuffs and further customization: turning on all buffs that are permanent versus temporary. They will then show little icons above your resource bars. Sated Fury shows up as a permanent buff because the time is dependent on your choice to turn it back off. I have permanent and temporary buffs on and the skill is the very first icon.

This is not a default setting and lot of people don't know about these settings. You can also turn on damage numbers in this menu and I would advise anyone who's not come across these options to apply them. It really helps you become more aware of what's going on around you. (I played for months before learning this.)

SlimeBro1

SilverBride wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

To get the most from this talent you need to build your whole character around it. This is the best way so far:

1) Roll a breton
2) Roll a nightblade

No. I shouldn't have to make a one size fits all cookie cutter build to be able to play as a Vampire... which all races and classes are supposed to be able to play.

I am a High Elf Magika Sorcerer Vampire. That is what I want to play, and that is what I will play.

buttaface wrote: »

Folks if you want a stand toe to toe character, you'll be better off with a werewolf.

I have a Werewolf, and now I have a Vampire. I shouldn't have to choose one or the other.

I started this thread for advice on Sated Fury. Not to be told I have to reroll to something I don't want to be, or to play a Werewolf instead.

Apparently these people think having to roll a specific race and very ultra specific set up to make use of vampire/blood frenzy is a very good design.

I have some design tips for you: It isn't. Having to roll a specific race and a specific class to make use of vampire means....that's right, you guessed it, it's badly designed. No other way to look at it, tbh.

In a game where race and classes aren't too limiting, the fact the "only way to play vampire" is as a breton nightblade is bad design.

SilverBride

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

I don't know your platform, but on PS4, under options, there is a setting to turn on buffs/debuffs and further customization: turning on all buffs that are permanent versus temporary.

I found a setting under "combat" that lets me show my own buffs. I am going to see how that works. Thanks!

SlimeBro1 wrote: »

Apparently these people think having to roll a specific race and very ultra specific set up to make use of vampire/blood frenzy is a very good design.

I have some design tips for you: It isn't. Having to roll a specific race and a specific class to make use of vampire means....that's right, you guessed it, it's badly designed. No other way to look at it, tbh.

In a game where race and classes aren't too limiting, the fact the "only way to play vampire" is as a breton nightblade is bad design.

I couldn't agree more.

Vevvev

buttaface wrote: »

Folks if you want a stand toe to toe character, you'll be better off with a werewolf. New vamp is every bit as powerful as new WW but different. But if you caught exercising that uber spell pwr of a Stage 4 at the wrong moment? Toast. That's balance.

But that doesn't match up with lore, the mythology of vampires, or even what the game play of vampires is generally about. Blood Frenzy doesn't tick any boxes of what its like to be a vampire since vampires are typically seen as incredibly hard to kill creatures of the night that siphon power from their enemies. Blood Frenzy makes you more fragile by taking your own health away and doesn't have any sort of interaction with your enemy.

If we look at the passives though they are vampiric, although the stage 2 one is questionable in my eyes but I can see it being plausible. The stage 3 passive definitely fulfills making vampires harder to kill and the stage 4 passive is very clever in that it took the invisibility active power Embrace of Shadows from Oblivion and Skyrim and incorporated it into sprint.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Embrace_of_Shadows_(Skyrim)
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Embrace_of_Shadows_(Oblivion)

Although the invisibility power also gave you the ability to see in the dark, which in this game can either be detection or crit chance/damage. Honestly just having the invisibility is neat, no need to add/remove anything there although the -100% health regen is quite punishing for being at stage 4. Only game that didn't have vampires that could heal I can think of off the top of my head was Morrowind and that problem was fixed with vampiric drain or by feeding on a clan's thrall. Granted ESO has no sun damage so..... it is what it is....

As for things that could replace Blood Frenzy but still be viable with lore we have several options. I know some have suggested gap closers which could help the melee gameplay, but there are also other things. Like for instance we have a charm spell for stunning but there was also a silencing spell in Oblivion called Reign of Terror.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
Now this skill honestly has issues being ported into ESO. Most obvious one is it causes terror and giving the vampire skill line 2 hard CC abilities is honestly quite silly, and the silencing effect is generally limited to ultimate abilities.

Sorry for my long post but at the end of the day though if the devs want to keep Blood Frenzy can they please no longer make it a channel? If it acted like the Mage's Guild's Equilibrium skill which sacrifices a lot of health for resources, but instead in this case power, it wouldn't be in such an odd position that it is now. That 20% cost increase every second is a by product of the skill being a channel, and they could just keep the "Can't be healed by others" in effect as long as the buff is up.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Equilibrium

YandereGirlfriend

I would be super sad to see anything adverse happen to Frenzy.

There's certainly room for improvement and fine-tuning but throwing it away completely, IMO, would be a mistake.

A commonsense improvement would simply be to either: a) take the Sated Frenzy cost increase back down to its original 10% or b) decrease the base health cost of the skill.

As someone pointed out regarding the high Vampire Lord ultimate cost, the developers did not take skill costs into account when they lowered the Vampire Stage vampire ability cost decreases and the result is that all vampire skills base costs are actually much more expensive than they were intended to be.

@Vevvev Reign of Terror sounds like it would be a fantastic morph for the vampire stun spell. Honestly, the base skill should stun in 360 degrees and then the morphs could diverge from there. Perhaps keep the stun and snare on one morph and make the other an immobilize and silence? Having it only apply to ultimates would be a nice choice as otherwise it is privateering into the territory of Negation Field and that would probably be too powerful for a non-ultimate semi-spammable stun. It would still have tons of tactical potential in PvP.

Vevvev

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I would be super sad to see anything adverse happen to Frenzy.

There's certainly room for improvement and fine-tuning but throwing it away completely, IMO, would be a mistake.

A commonsense improvement would simply be to either: a) take the Sated Frenzy cost increase back down to its original 10% or b) decrease the base health cost of the skill.

As someone pointed out regarding the high Vampire Lord ultimate cost, the developers did not take skill costs into account when they lowered the Vampire Stage vampire ability cost decreases and the result is that all vampire skills base costs are actually much more expensive than they were intended to be.

@Vevvev Reign of Terror sounds like it would be a fantastic morph for the vampire stun spell. Honestly, the base skill should stun in 360 degrees and then the morphs could diverge from there. Perhaps keep the stun and snare on one morph and make the other an immobilize and silence? Having it only apply to ultimates would be a nice choice as otherwise it is privateering into the territory of Negation Field and that would probably be too powerful for a non-ultimate semi-spammable stun. It would still have tons of tactical potential in PvP.

You know what, I didn't think of that! Although the mesmerize stun has that terrible rule in place making it hard to land, but in comparison to the Psijic Order stun its okay I guess. Far cheaper, same range but around you, and has a delayed stun making it able to be escaped.

jaws343

I sit at stage 4 and use Sated Fury regularly on my mag sorc. Crit surge alone allows me to keep it toggled on for 10-15 seconds at a time depending on the crits I get. As long as I have WoE and lightning splash down and effectively hitting force pulse off in the rotation I can keep it up. And once it toggles off I am at full health immediately and can re toggle it back on. I use it regularly to solo world bosses.

The biggest key is to make sure the toggle is off when you have to go defensive.

buttaface

SilverBride wrote: »

Algorax wrote: »

To get the most from this talent you need to build your whole character around it. This is the best way so far:

1) Roll a breton
2) Roll a nightblade

No. I shouldn't have to make a one size fits all cookie cutter build to be able to play as a Vampire... which all races and classes are supposed to be able to play.

I am a High Elf Magika Sorcerer Vampire. That is what I want to play, and that is what I will play.

buttaface wrote: »

Folks if you want a stand toe to toe character, you'll be better off with a werewolf.

I have a Werewolf, and now I have a Vampire. I shouldn't have to choose one or the other.

I started this thread for advice on Sated Fury. Not to be told I have to reroll to something I don't want to be, or to play a Werewolf instead.

So you want the raw power of a werewolf and permanent powerful vamp skills without a timer or tradeoff in vamp? I don't think you are going to get your wish. New vamp fits into lots of different playstyles. To repeat, buff drain a bit and the scion ult and it's a good to go addition to the game. There will be nerf calls eventually once it gets worked into regular use. Bringing just a few seconds of +930 spell dmg to bursts from stealth is a huge buff that must have tradeoffs or it will be smacked down sooner rather than later.

Haven't tried a vamp bomber in pvp yet, but bringing the ~900 spell dmg from vamp to a bomber together with the patch notes changes to certain sets and skills will make for some devastating ball counters.

As a tank, put the vamp ult on one bar and warhorn on the other and gives lots of flexibility for many types of content, especially on a popular ult setup with Akaviri Dragonguard, vamp lord, potentates, etc. Lots of choice here. On easier content on random teams can help with dps, and on better teams can either do that or just do warhorn, either works great.

For dps, trade a dmg monster set for bogdan etc. and healing won't be a problem using BFB, though I am still hoping that the changes to that skill won't be as advertised. it's supposed to be a choice, not a substitute or massive dps/sustain boost without tradeoffs.

buttaface

Vevvev wrote: »

But that doesn't match up with lore, the mythology of vampires, or even what the game play of vampires is generally about. Blood Frenzy doesn't tick any boxes of what its like to be a vampire since vampires are typically seen as incredibly hard to kill creatures of the night that siphon power from their enemies. Blood Frenzy makes you more fragile by taking your own health away and doesn't have any sort of interaction with your enemy.

1. Lore arguments usually don't carry water in these games, the list of counter-lore mechanics in these games is a mile long.
2. ESO vampires are not the same as earthly lore vampires and have never been, likely won't ever be.
3. Mist has been used for years and is better now as a toggle, together with passives, new vamps are just as tough as old ones if not more so. Drain could do with a small buff. Scion needs a buff. Rest of kit is fine. In order to trade for that extra burst and health based heal, you have to build around it. This is not some cookie cutter choice that you have to go into all or nothing, there are tons of options and degrees. Wardens, NB, DK, etc and especially templars have LA and spammable healing that alleviates most of the health costs. Put on a healing monster set and there is a choice. Choice is good. New vamp adds tons of choices without being OP.

SilverBride

buttaface wrote: »

So you want the raw power of a werewolf and permanent powerful vamp skills without a timer or tradeoff in Vamp?

Exactly where did I say anything even remotely resembling that?

Vevvev

buttaface wrote: »

No need to bet, it's a foregone conclusion, once snipers, 2H, bombers, and all the other ways to unload burst in Pvp are incorporated into builds, there will be nerf calls due to the 930 dmg toggle, and as a matter of fact and not opinion, it's 930 damage, not 600.

Sir um.... think you got a typo in your post. Its 630, not 930.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Blood+Frenzy