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NB tank nerf
Playboy_Shrek
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this nerf doesn't seem that it is intended to be a nerf but rather a buff to dps NB. but its also nerfing NB tank pretty damn hard. I would say grim focus is the most important skill for NB tank from their actual skill trees in veteran trials and dlc dungeons. the 10% unique mitigation is pretty much permanent and easy to apply. I wish we'd get some sort of compensation. like adding 10% mitigation on maybe a shadow passive that grants 5/10% for 1/2. NB tank is good but its can't take a nerf like that and be okay for veteran stuff. its already by most considered an offtank rather than a main tank. there has to be some sort of a mitigation compensation. since NB tank doesn't have a build in shield or a burst heal so mitigation is their wildcard pretty much.
8
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does every class really need to be able to do everything as well?
I think the whole premisse is flawed
Either you have class identity which means differences between classes or you scrapp classes altogether for a purely skill based system.
But having classes that can everything as well and all skills being the same in different colors seems bland and counter intuitive.2 -
Playboy_Shrek✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Does every class really need to be able to do everything as well?
I think the whole premisse is flawed
Either you have class identity which means differences between classes or you scrapp classes altogether for a purely skill based system.
But having classes that can everything as well and all skills being the same in different colors seems bland and counter intuitive.
i dont really know what u mean. currently DK is the best tank and also the most used dps in vet trials (magdk)2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Playboy_Shrek wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Does every class really need to be able to do everything as well?
I think the whole premisse is flawed
Either you have class identity which means differences between classes or you scrapp classes altogether for a purely skill based system.
But having classes that can everything as well and all skills being the same in different colors seems bland and counter intuitive.
i dont really know what u mean. currently DK is the best tank and also the most used dps in vet trials (magdk)
Most that make the argument you are responding to here generally ignore dps as part of the equation.
Classes should exclusively excel at different things for the sake of diversity they say. Expect for dps, when a dk is topping charts for example, no one bats an eye. Templars should be the best healers they say, yet at any point where templar is taken as dps then it's just "templar dps needs to improve!" You never see "dk dps should be on the lower end because they make the best tanks".
The discussion almost always becomes how to fix or improve pve dps for certian classes but when it comes to tanking or healing, dont you dare suggest a non dk tank or non templar healer be brought closer in line for end game viability. Lol.
I've been seeing this since trials have existing in this game man. People want diversity in class functionality but in their mmo of what is essentially 12 different classes (mag and stam lf the 6) they only want one to be viable for tanking and healing.
They claim homogenization, yet want rigid restrictions at the highest level. Even worse, the mere idea that a NB be able to tank at all is preposterous to these same people, as in their eyes NBs are purely "rogues'" and have no business being tanks, which is of course a silly way to view this game if you spend any time actually learning how classes are designed in ESO.
No, OP you are 100 percent correct, nerfing NB tanks is kind of crappy and this game 100 percent needs more classes fulfilling more roles at the highest echelon of pve full stop.
Or should all trial groups only have NBs and sorcs as dps?Edited by exeeter702 on July 21, 2020 11:12PM14 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Does every class really need to be able to do everything as well?
I think the whole premisse is flawed
Either you have class identity which means differences between classes or you scrapp classes altogether for a purely skill based system.
But having classes that can everything as well and all skills being the same in different colors seems bland and counter intuitive.
Yes.
Support is already the hardest spot in the game to fill with quality players, making it more bland by having only certain classes be useful at the role isn't helping.
As a primarily tank player when we talk support, I love the chance to play different classes, keeps me from being bored to tears as I watch the DPS fail over and over as they learn their part of the fight.
That comment also acts as if the only way to make them equally useful is to give them the same abilities in different colors. You can easily give different classes different utility tools, but still have a basic skill set that are variations of the same skills. I have a feeling you don't mind me running one of the two taunts if you want me to tank for you? So variety obviously isn't a real concern for you.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
Playboy_Shrek✭✭✭I enjoy nightblade tank and a lot of people do. its not really strong enough to consider nerfing it this hard.1
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Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Each class should be able to Tank / Heal / Damage (magicka or stamina) effectively. Basically each class minimally should be able to be played 4 ways.
No reason to remove damage mitigation from NB tanks.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}5 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Keep the upcoming Grim focus in Assassination for DPS .
Remove Malevolent Offering , add the current Grim focus mechanics in Siphoning for Tank .
TBH , MO is useless to NB , I think some of us might dont know ZOS removed our ranged single target CC skill very long time ago and replaced by this garbage .1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Keep the upcoming Grim focus in Assassination for DPS .
Remove Malevolent Offering , add the current Grim focus mechanics in Siphoning for Tank .
TBH , MO is useless to NB , I think some of us might dont know ZOS removed our ranged single target CC skill very long time ago and replaced by this garbage .
Malevolent offering is an exceptional heal for healers. It is in no way useless by any stretch of the imagination. This heal is very potent, it goes through los and ignores elevation. It forces the healer to judge when they are able to endure 7 stacks and when to be more careful. Frankly, this skill alone is a complete success in design in terms of risk vs reward at the micro level that is sorely missing elsewhere In this game. It is the only other skill aside from strife that allows NB healers to fully benefit from the transfer passive and is directly bolstered in multiple ways from the skill line that it belongs too.
Agony was trash. It served 2 purposes and 2 only
To dismount people in cyrodil and for setting up meteor on enemies that had no stamina.
At worst, you or someone else gently tickled the opponent and agony broke, granted them free CC immunity without touching their stamina pool. Agony was a product of a very different game early in ESOs production. Where stuns and CC immunity were conceptually planned to function much different then they do now. Agony, among a few other stuns in the same catagory were designed as long form crowd control for pve much akin to WoW mages polymorph. A method of control that by the time of ESOs launch was entirely redundant and incompatible.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NB tank is still fine after this change, it is Templar tank the one that needs help asap.
Tank tiers for tankiness by my experience:
T1: warden.
T2:sorc+dk.
T3:NB+necro.
Trash tier: Templar.
But that's personal experience. Some people will feel differently.0 -
Playboy_Shrek✭✭✭NB tank is still fine after this change, it is Templar tank the one that needs help asap.
Tank tiers for tankiness by my experience:
T1: warden.
T2:sorc+dk.
T3:NB+necro.
Trash tier: Templar.
But that's personal experience. Some people will feel differently.
funny you say that. am not saying your wrong because I rarely seen templar tank. but I had a templar OT in HM vAA tank the bosses and about 8 storm atros and 4 axes when we wiped for like 2 minutes straight. it was the most incredible feat if tanking I ever seen. obviously it was useless that was pointless as we were wiped except them but it was incredible.1 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭As much as i agree with you, i am afraid that the only classes that are allowed to fit every role in the game is the new ones we pay for 🤷♂️0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭NB tank is still fine after this change, it is Templar tank the one that needs help asap.
Tank tiers for tankiness by my experience:
T1: warden.
T2:sorc+dk.
T3:NB+necro.
Trash tier: Templar.
But that's personal experience. Some people will feel differently.
Just speaking from -personal- observations and experiences, I would swap sorc and necro on that list.
I may be bias, as I main a necro tank, but my experience has been that necros have a very powerful tanking kit, and I much prefer it to a sorc's tanking kit (not that a sorc has a bad tanking kit tho, I'm intrigued to possibly try one of those as well)0 -
emilyhyoyeon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My main character is a NB tank, and I always thought the damage mitigation change to grim focus made no sense. I'm kind of glad they're taking it away, but I do think they should get something else in return, under shadow or siphoning so it's thematically sensibleIGN @ emilypumpkin, imperial pumpkin seller
Tullanisse Starborne, altmer battlemage & ayleid scholar
High Priest Eraamine as a houseguest please C:1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My main is a NB tank... or was, as I have not done group dungeons for some time. 10% damage taken less was nice though...
But it got me thinking...
Grim focus will now give 10% Critical Damage and Healing instead... And the question is... Is it enough, to bring back Nightblade Sap Tanks back from the grave ?
That used to be a unique NB approach to tanking damage. By dealing some damage & healing at the same time. The more trash mobs there were - the more healing you got, so you could out-heal incoming damage...Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 22, 2020 8:44PM0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »NB tank is still fine after this change, it is Templar tank the one that needs help asap.
Tank tiers for tankiness by my experience:
T1: warden.
T2:sorc+dk.
T3:NB+necro.
Trash tier: Templar.
But that's personal experience. Some people will feel differently.
Just speaking from -personal- observations and experiences, I would swap sorc and necro on that list.
I may be bias, as I main a necro tank, but my experience has been that necros have a very powerful tanking kit, and I much prefer it to a sorc's tanking kit (not that a sorc has a bad tanking kit tho, I'm intrigued to possibly try one of those as well)
The only reason I put necro together with NB is because his burst heal is melee exclusively. It hits him only in specific fights.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »NB tank is still fine after this change, it is Templar tank the one that needs help asap.
Tank tiers for tankiness by my experience:
T1: warden.
T2:sorc+dk.
T3:NB+necro.
Trash tier: Templar.
But that's personal experience. Some people will feel differently.
Just speaking from -personal- observations and experiences, I would swap sorc and necro on that list.
I may be bias, as I main a necro tank, but my experience has been that necros have a very powerful tanking kit, and I much prefer it to a sorc's tanking kit (not that a sorc has a bad tanking kit tho, I'm intrigued to possibly try one of those as well)
The only reason I put necro together with NB is because his burst heal is melee exclusively. It hits him only in specific fights.
That's true, but tbh I personally slot Enduring Undeath as well. I know it's meant for the necro healer build, but I have greatly enjoyed it on my tank, offering both a burst + HoT in one. And I'll have a steady supply of corpses with my armor and Spirit Guardian. And even if I don't have one, I still do get a bit of a burst heal - not as big of one but it will still burst even without corpses.
That said, my tank build doesn't follow the build guides either, so a lot of necro tanks won't be running Enduring Undeath.
And I'll have to admit my bias that I already have a thing for necromancers to begin with, always being my favorite character types in fantasy and RPG's.0
