Block doesn't work like it is supposed to.

Spartabunny08

Zenimax or whoever decided to change how block works said we wouldn't notice the changes and whatnot. Well I can and I really really don't like it. In pvp this is horrendous. Turn by turn playing is getting quite old. I don't understand why block needed to be changed because now not only are my tanks suffering my Nightblades are having issues dodge rolling because of how block works now. These changes are actually getting me killed. I for one do not like what you're doing with the combat and I'm getting a bit angry about it. I want to know where this is going combat development team. This is not acceptable. The new head of combat, you instituted the DOT meta for 3 months and the best pvp I had in years. Then after that 3 months you all broke the game so bad blue screens for like 6 to 9 months for doing nothing. I know this game's had problems, but what is this? That DOT meta worked and it worked good. It's been over a year now. So what's up with block combat team? I would like to know cause this just ain't working out.

Dusk_Coven

Block is for blocking attacks and as far as I know that's always worked fine.
People who abuse block spam to shortcut animations are the ones not using it like it is supposed to.
Just imagine if NPCs and monsters did that. There'd be endless bug reports about nonsense combat.

josiahva

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Block is for blocking attacks and as far as I know that's always worked fine.
People who abuse block spam to shortcut animations are the ones not using it like it is supposed to.
Just imagine if NPCs and monsters did that. There'd be endless bug reports about nonsense combat.

I agree, animation cancelling has ALWAYS been nonsense, ESPECIALLY in PvP where it makes it so you can't even see what your opponent is doing and then your death recap says you have been hit by 4 skills when all you actually saw was some stupid stuttering block-cancelled skill

Danksta

It's pretty dumb that run has priority over block. On console you can run by accident and will be unable to block and can even drop block in these cases too.

Spartabunny08

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Block is for blocking attacks and as far as I know that's always worked fine.
People who abuse block spam to shortcut animations are the ones not using it like it is supposed to.
Just imagine if NPCs and monsters did that. There'd be endless bug reports about nonsense combat.

Not about animation canceling that was not mentioned. It is about since the block changes that were made block no longer works as it did as in fluid, not dropping block randomly or just not working at all. I am speaking from a tank perspective not a block canceling damage dealer.

Spartabunny08

josiahva wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Block is for blocking attacks and as far as I know that's always worked fine.
People who abuse block spam to shortcut animations are the ones not using it like it is supposed to.
Just imagine if NPCs and monsters did that. There'd be endless bug reports about nonsense combat.

I agree, animation cancelling has ALWAYS been nonsense, ESPECIALLY in PvP where it makes it so you can't even see what your opponent is doing and then your death recap says you have been hit by 4 skills when all you actually saw was some stupid stuttering block-cancelled skill

Again never mentioned anything about animation canceling. I am speaking about how block works.

Spartabunny08

Danksta wrote: »

It's pretty dumb that run has priority over block. On console you can run by accident and will be unable to block and can even drop block in these cases too.

yeah they either need to fix block or put it back the way it was. This is unacceptable to play the game.

amm7sb14_ESO

As a tank, I'm not sure what the block issue is? I'm having 0 problems with blocking. Can you elaborate on what the issue is?

WreckfulAbandon

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Again never mentioned anything about animation canceling. I am speaking about how block works.

Thing is, that change was made deliberately to make animation cancelling impossible in some cases and harder in others. They directly changed how block works to make animation cancelling less prevalent.

Spartabunny08

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

As a tank, I'm not sure what the block issue is? I'm having 0 problems with blocking. Can you elaborate on what the issue is?

oh yeah. It randomly drops or I hit the button to block and it doesn't work. I'm a pvp tank, been tanking for years in Eso and I know how block worked before they changed it. It is not as reliable and for some reason I get perma stunned and die when this was not a thing before except when they accidentally caused it, acknowledged it and fixed it. I use the heavy armor ability to stop crowd control on my tank and sometimes it doesn't seem to work. This change that has been done to block is not working the same as they said. I'm not just a tank I've seen them all ps4 and I among a few are some of the best and this makes me feel like a noob again like wtf.

doomette

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Again never mentioned anything about animation canceling. I am speaking about how block works.

Thing is, that change was made deliberately to make animation cancelling impossible in some cases and harder in others. They directly changed how block works to make animation cancelling less prevalent.

What I don’t understand about this change (well, beside the need for it, but that’s another topic), is why some abilities are still easy as pie to block cancel, others are clunkier, and others just can’t be done any more. It seems so arbitrary, unless I missed the explanation why ability A was changed but ability B stayed the same.

Edit: sorry OP, I know this isn’t what you were getting at.

Spartabunny08

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Again never mentioned anything about animation canceling. I am speaking about how block works.

Thing is, that change was made deliberately to make animation cancelling impossible in some cases and harder in others. They directly changed how block works to make animation cancelling less prevalent.

I'm absolutely cool with doing away with animation canceling but that also didn't work. I'm still completely able to block cancel and execute assuming nothing else is going wrong. It just made block not work right in comparison. If they want to get rid of animation canceling it is going to take a lot more than this. Like I can take my warden and rocket birds by canceling with light attacks. I blow people up with just that so it's not at all gone.

Spartabunny08

doomette wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Again never mentioned anything about animation canceling. I am speaking about how block works.

Thing is, that change was made deliberately to make animation cancelling impossible in some cases and harder in others. They directly changed how block works to make animation cancelling less prevalent.

What I don’t understand about this change (well, beside the need for it, but that’s another topic), is why some abilities are still easy as pie to block cancel, others are clunkier, and others just can’t be done any more. It seems so arbitrary, unless I missed the explanation why ability A was changed but ability B stayed the same.

Edit: sorry OP, I know this isn’t what you were getting at.

Thing is in pvp I tank out a lot of enemies I need the game to work more fluid because in a second everything can change. If I don't get block up when I need it can mean the end. I have spent years learning adapting and honing my skills. Old mowers guild here lol. I love pvp tanking, I started when permablock was big and I could tank zergs and it was awesome. Since they've nerfed that in the ground it has been a long hard road. No tanks ain't out or destroyed completely but they're nothing in comparison to where they were. This block change is fine if they can make it actually fluid and also if block shows up then it better be up because that's also a thing now.

Crash427

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Block is for blocking attacks and as far as I know that's always worked fine.
People who abuse block spam to shortcut animations are the ones not using it like it is supposed to.
Just imagine if NPCs and monsters did that. There'd be endless bug reports about nonsense combat.

Cancelling the animation is irrelevant on instant cast skills. The skill hits you when it's cast, not at the end of the animation. Whether or not you see the reverse slice, it still kills you without a chance for counterplay.

And block isn't working consistently to block attacks.

The worst part, to me at least, is that ZOS refuses to acknowledge when they screwed something up. We just get, "you don't have to be here" type comments.

Lab3360

Agree. Block is terrible. I think its exacerbated by desync issues.

Spartabunny08

Lab3360 wrote: »

Agree. Block is terrible. I think its exacerbated by desync issues.

and lag lol

Czekoludek

Problems with block randomly droping exist also in PvE. We had many wipes in our progression of vKA because tank lost block and was killed by boss. It started after the block changes but looks like Zenimax doesn't care or doesn't know how to fix that issue. It is not possible that they don't know about the problem as it was reported on pts during the introduction of this change and after that on live, multiple times.

Spartabunny08

Czekoludek wrote: »

Problems with block randomly droping exist also in PvE. We had many wipes in our progression of vKA because tank lost block and was killed by boss. It started after the block changes but looks like Zenimax doesn't care or doesn't know how to fix that issue. It is not possible that they don't know about the problem as it was reported on pts during the introduction of this change and after that on live, multiple times.

I know they know but without the rabble they may forget. Nail that sticks up gets hammered and all that. It worked fine prior to the change at minimum it can go back. I can't and do not play this game in its current state. My play skill has been dropped on its face with the game in its current state. I really hope they can fix it because it can be the most fun I've ever had in a game albeit roughly a year ago now. We must let them know how we feel the same way we did when sorcerer's shields were getting cast times and would've broken the class.

Vevvev

Think it also extends beyond block. Ever since the vampire sprint got added I've noticed sometimes in laggy situations even with auto run enabled the sprint will cancel for no reason at all and reveal me to everyone and everything.

Edit: And before anyone says anything. Yes, I was in fact on perfectly flat terrain and not running over any rocks.

Czekoludek

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Is it possible to get any information about that problem and about potential fix if zos is even working on any?

Spartabunny08

Vevvev wrote: »

Think it also extends beyond block. Ever since the vampire sprint got added I've noticed sometimes in laggy situations even with auto run enabled the sprint will cancel for no reason at all and reveal me to everyone and everything.

wow that sounds like another thread to me. I can't play it but that I would agree is a serious playability issue. Actually I've only seen 1 pvper using the full vamp kit they were pretty good on it. They were enemy and the invisible part was working well then. I would hate what you're experiencing.

Vevvev

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Think it also extends beyond block. Ever since the vampire sprint got added I've noticed sometimes in laggy situations even with auto run enabled the sprint will cancel for no reason at all and reveal me to everyone and everything.

wow that sounds like another thread to me. I can't play it but that I would agree is a serious playability issue. Actually I've only seen 1 pvper using the full vamp kit they were pretty good on it. They were enemy and the invisible part was working well then. I would hate what you're experiencing.

It doesn't happen all the time but when it does its always at the worst possible moment. Since ZOS has been putting more rule calculations on the server, like blocking, I've been noticing even worse performance. I know on the PTS they're removing all the % based calculations on some sets as a way to improve performance but I honestly have no idea what kind of impact that'll have.

Spartabunny08

Vevvev wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Think it also extends beyond block. Ever since the vampire sprint got added I've noticed sometimes in laggy situations even with auto run enabled the sprint will cancel for no reason at all and reveal me to everyone and everything.

wow that sounds like another thread to me. I can't play it but that I would agree is a serious playability issue. Actually I've only seen 1 pvper using the full vamp kit they were pretty good on it. They were enemy and the invisible part was working well then. I would hate what you're experiencing.

It doesn't happen all the time but when it does its always at the worst possible moment. Since ZOS has been putting more rule calculations on the server, like blocking, I've been noticing even worse performance. I know on the PTS they're removing all the % based calculations on some sets as a way to improve performance but I honestly have no idea what kind of impact that'll have.

Hopefully better. Good point there, I appreciate that. Just want my block to work right so my tanks don't die while still having resources. This is the first time in years this has happened this way. The coding on crowd control really needs help too. Maybe this can help it all. Time will tell.

GlorphNoldorin

Block was improved....what are you complaining about? The well thought out changes have added superior game play experience. The changes were based on factual considerations of how block was unfair and not working as intended......... now dont ask zos to change because we are all working at home and need to get the new crate organised.

/sarcasm off

Typical zos change, our typical response wont change zos's change. Get used to it. This block change has been appalling for pve and pvp tanking for those on higher latency. Holding block does not mean you will block an attack.

Along with all the other performance issues, it is just sitting silently at the bottom of any pile zos may never attempt to modify....and if they did... how could we be sure any change was a) going to work b) be changed to something that is not worse.

/cynicism cant be turned off

Spartabunny08

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Block was improved....what are you complaining about? The well thought out changes have added superior game play experience. The changes were based on factual considerations of how block was unfair and not working as intended......... now dont ask zos to change because we are all working at home and need to get the new crate organised.

/sarcasm off

Typical zos change, our typical response wont change zos's change. Get used to it. This block change has been appalling for pve and pvp tanking for those on higher latency. Holding block does not mean you will block an attack.

Along with all the other performance issues, it is just sitting silently at the bottom of any pile zos may never attempt to modify....and if they did... how could we be sure any change was a) going to work b) be changed to something that is not worse.

/cynicism cant be turned off

Be careful looks like baiting lol.
Silence is acceptance. I have tried the change they insisted on based on them saying it will not be different in function. It is different and before I hang up my armor I am going to say something.

Like the sarcasm, cynical a bit rough lol

Lab3360

I am so glad this thread is here. I created a thread about this when they made the changes to block and it received not as much as this thread. I'm just happy it's being discussed at length. Its needed.

Ratzkifal

Recently Vigor, as well as other skills but Vigor more frequently, hasn't been firing reliably when blocking.

Spartabunny08

Lab3360 wrote: »

I am so glad this thread is here. I created a thread about this when they made the changes to block and it received not as much as this thread. I'm just happy it's being discussed at length. Its needed.

I've been watching and commenting when and where I can. I wanted to give them some time to see what happens with the block changes. I love tanking, it's what I do. Now is the time imo to start a discussion about how it is affecting our gameplay. I can't tank with this. Block and there's a serious CC issue going on. I just want to enjoy the game. Personally I want my permablock tank back, it never hurt nobody lol. But I'm not gonna be greedy and instead politely ask for them to investigate this. Polite i just got banned for my opinion on the validity for the new moon changes. Or I would've been here earlier. Lol

Spartabunny08

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Recently Vigor, as well as other skills but Vigor more frequently, hasn't been firing reliably when blocking.

Also doesn't work right after dodge roll and back into dodge roll. On top of that potions don't either. Oh and the stamina bug got my stam blade killed too. Not happy about these things.

0lbertikus

What i've seen many times recently: If you activate vigor and dodge roll instantly you will see the vigor-animation right after the dodge roll animation. This looks like a messed up command queue.

Spartabunny08

0lbertikus wrote: »

What i've seen many times recently: If you activate vigor and dodge roll instantly you will see the vigor-animation right after the dodge roll animation. This looks like a messed up command queue.

Well this used to work no problem been playing for years. Seems block is messing with roll dodge and by proxy most other abilities. Just way clunkier than I've ever noticed besides when they break stuff and fix it. My main concern is this is the way the game is going. If so I'm in the market for The eso replacement cause God knows I've tried to find a game of equal awesomeness when it works and none really like it out there, yet.