If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

Grandchamp1989

I honestly believe you belong in normal, if you can't block or roll dodge you don't belong in Vet, period.

People get angry at other people for things that's 100% within their own control.

Lets look at a few examples:

DLC Vet: Tank has to grab the most dangerous boss adds first. Especially the ones who one-shots, even if a squishy blocks.
Taunt Priority goes: Boss -> Boss Adds -> Block damage from said bosse's or the tank himself dies -> Collect trash

I've literally just witnessed an 810cp quit because he got killed due to heavy attacks from 2 trash mobs he just ate to the face.
Not boss adds... Regular trash. There's absolutely no reason for him to die. One block or roll. Give the healer or tank some time to respond, don't just eat it to your face and get angry.

There's no group taunt, the tank need time to collect the most dangerous enemy's on the field.
When it comes to trash as DD/heal you have to be able to either:

- Melt trash
- Deliver them to the tank so he can CC around him
- Roll dodge heavies
- Block heavies

What you don't do is eat up every attack with your face because you refuse to stop your rotation for 2 seconds, and then throw a temper tantrum when you die.
And Yes I play DD aswell.

If you just eat heavies to the face all day long and expect the tank to pick up and taunt every single add in the game please do more vet Maelström or go back to normal.
If you stand in red circles and expect the healer to outheal it, otherwise you rage quit, please do more vet Maelström or go back to normal
If you're a Tank that can't block heavy attacks in Vet from multiple boss adds, so you die every trash pull, please go back to normal.

Features you learn in the tutorial I see people fail at 810 on a regular basis, it honestly blow my mind when people like this que for vet.

MaleAmazon

If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

...you might be a DD?

Magdalina

MaleAmazon wrote: »

If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

...you might be a DD?

Let's be honest, it's more that you might be a potato.

Hämähäkki

Magdalina wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

...you might be a DD?

Let's be honest, it's more that you might be a potato.

Athyrium93

Not to argue your point because I agree, but sometimes you just miss a block, or are out of stam (especially after the mad sprint between bosses that always happens in PUGs) or lag for a second, or KB/mouse input doesn't register, or you looked away from the screen for 2 seconds because life happens. If the guy left right right after missing a block it's very possible RL happened and he had to leave.
I definitely agree that some people really shouldn't be in vet dungeons, but your example made me think of all the times I've died to stupid stuff, so I'm trying to be charitable to the guy.

Grandchamp1989

Athyrium93 wrote: »

Not to argue your point because I agree, but sometimes you just miss a block, or are out of stam (especially after the mad sprint between bosses that always happens in PUGs) or lag for a second, or KB/mouse input doesn't register, or you looked away from the screen for 2 seconds because life happens. If the guy left right right after missing a block it's very possible RL happened and he had to leave.
I definitely agree that some people really shouldn't be in vet dungeons, but your example made me think of all the times I've died to stupid stuff, so I'm trying to be charitable to the guy.

Absolutely! Mistakes happens, nobody is perfect.

My problem arrives when people actively blame others for their own lack of game sense.

I can't tell you how many times I've tanked Vet DLC or Vet dragonstar Arena - I got a boss and 3 boss adds on me, can barely see 1 foot ahead of me and a DPS is yelling in the chat he got aggro on him. I rush in to help him - risking dropping my taunt, only to see he's running in circles away from a couple of trash adds.

It's like yeah... you got "aggro" on you.. but deal with with mate.
Some people will throw a proper tantrum if an add touch them. God forbid you can't stand still in the corner practicing your rotation like the boss (and the mechanics) are a dummy you can parse on.

Tunnel vision takes away from basic game sense. Block, roll, deliver the adds if you can't kill them (lol), don't stand in red... I mean you SHOULD know this on vet instead of blaming everyone in the room.

Sarannah

Always stand in red.

Tanking is fun!

gatekeeper13

When I was tanking vDoM, in the second boss I missed a boss add for 1 sec which 1-shot the healer. He instantly started calling me names I can not mention here (if a ZOS staff could see them, they would immediately ban him). Looked like it was too difficult for him to roll dodge and evade the add for 2-3 secs till I taunt him.

Two days ago, I did a vFV run as a DD. The tank failed to taunt a Coldsnap Ogre who started running after me. I did what any logical man who do, I roll-dodged his attacks instead of staying like a chicken in front of him to get smashed and then blame the tank.

For me if you are a DD or healer and wait for tank to taunt every single thing in the dungeon so that you can do your max dps as if you are facing a training dummy, just quit and go play tetris.

Athyrium93

Haha that I agree with! I main a healer and the number of times I've been yelled at for not healing though a one shot or for not healing when I'm stuck in a knock down mechanic or a different room because they ran ahead is just silly.

Some people forget that dungeons are group activities and even more seem to forget that it isn't the tank or healers job to protect them from being stupid.

Had a dude in VCoA2 freak out on me and the tank yesterday because he refused to move during the boss with the spinning adds and kept dying, he even went so far as to brag he had 32k health and there is no way it should be able to kill him... Like yeah dude, maybe if you didn't I wouldn't be 50% of the dps... While trying to keep you alive and ressing you every 10 seconds...

But PUGs are PUGs lol

Raisin

MaleAmazon wrote: »

If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

...you might be a DD?

....that's amoreeee

Donny_Vito

HappyTheCamper

I’d like to add bashing/interruptions to this list too

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Whenever I'm healing and a DD start to rant after they've died from a one shot or some other hard hitting attack that is easily avoided and should be avoided, I just comment that I can't heal stupidity.

MaleAmazon

I’d like to add bashing/interruptions to this list too

And break free.

"You have to break free of her channel"
"Press break free"
"FFS BREAK FREE"
"Nvm, just lie dead on ground, get daily Undaunted achievement in a minute"

-Me in every single playthrough of Direfrost Keep until power creep started carrying the Cart of Potatoes (tm) through.

Grandchamp1989

https://i.imgur.com/GSXFYhY.jpg

zvavi

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

please do more Maelström

Tbh this is so true, for those who lacks interrupt block and dodge reflexes it is a very good advice. I mean, it comes with experience, and some people get it even without doing vMA (I have a friend in game that was afraid of vMA but was dragged to so many vDLC dungeons that he got good through that, with his first vMA run being relatively smooth), but I think it is usually better to git good on your own instead of wasting people's time.

Elwendryll

Killed by an add heavy? Was it MHK?
There aren't that many dungeons were "regular" adds can one shot you.

Nemesis7884

people that expect the tank to taunt every trash should just stop playing...but then again so many dds just want to be carried and barely point their weapons into the right direction...

Nemesis7884

Elwendryll wrote: »

Killed by an add heavy? Was it MHK?
There aren't that many dungeons were "regular" adds can one shot you.

falkreath hold

Magdalina

Elwendryll wrote: »

Killed by an add heavy? Was it MHK?
There aren't that many dungeons were "regular" adds can one shot you.

There's actually still more than you'd think, I think even WGT 2h guys can still 1shot me for 17k damage (admittedly that's while wearing 6 pcs light armor...or maybe that was while wearing Thrassian on top of that too, I'm not sure for WGT tbh). Shield/amber guys in RoM can definitely still do it, minotaurs in Falkreath too I think, bone colossi in Fang Lair, etc... there're quite a few but honestly - if in a vet dungeon, let alone vet dlc dungeon (I don't think any of those happen outside of dlc) you just yolo into a pack of trash without holding block or casting a shield, your glorious death to 25k bash/lunge/whatever is on you. That's not to say I never do it of course, but if I die like that I just laugh because I know it's on me and it's just funny to watch me get insta-rekt like that

That said, a lot of the time pug tanks don't seem to know the ad priority - taunt the big/dangerous ad first - and then after a while it might hurt since as a magicka dd I can't block for long (although I do generally shield). But generally most ads' heavies you can shield/block/dodge just fine, for a period of time, anyway. It's all about situational awareness. Personally I've never played other MMOs but I like that even with a tank I still have to watch out sometimes even in trash packs here.

jaws343

Athyrium93 wrote: »

Not to argue your point because I agree, but sometimes you just miss a block, or are out of stam (especially after the mad sprint between bosses that always happens in PUGs) or lag for a second, or KB/mouse input doesn't register, or you looked away from the screen for 2 seconds because life happens. If the guy left right right after missing a block it's very possible RL happened and he had to leave.
I definitely agree that some people really shouldn't be in vet dungeons, but your example made me think of all the times I've died to stupid stuff, so I'm trying to be charitable to the guy.

Not to mention the random queue also forces DLC dungeons on you if you are an ESO+ member. Good luck running the random queue as a new person to Vet dungeons.

Plus, there is not a single normal dungeon, or Vet base dungeon that will prepare you for Vet DLC dungeons.

amm7sb14_ESO

I was doing vet Moongrave over the weekend. I'm the tank. It was myself and 2 others from my guild, and we PUG'd the last DPS. He was doing massive DPS, probably a good 70k - 90k. But we got to the stone boss, and he kept dropping immediately. Like fight would start and he was dead. So now our dps is pulled away from the boss to pick him up, and he'd die again. We wiped about 2 or 3 times. We started the fight once again, and he dropped.

Needless to say, now that we didn't have to keep picking him up off the ground, we 3 man'd it on the first attempt.

Honestly, I care very little about what your parse looks like if you have no grasp of boss mechanics, have no survivability, and worst of all, no desire to learn, work together, and get better, and instead just blame everyone else.

Because boss mechanics can be learned. We all started somewhere.

Survivability can be increased. We all started somewhere.

Those things take practice and experimentation to find out what works and what works for you personally.

But copying an online build guide, not learning game mechanics on how to use said build guide, and then blaming others for your own lack of understanding, does nothing for anyone.

Donny_Vito

But copying an online build guide, not learning game mechanics on how to use said build guide, and then blaming others for your own lack of understanding, does nothing for anyone.

That's a universal fault, not just ESO.

josiahva

I tank pug vet DLCs all the time with probably a 70%+ completion ratio...but lately on the random vets I have taken I have been dumped into vBCII twice now(I avoid vanilla dungeons for everything but the random these days) and evidently pugs have more trouble with vBCII than they do with vFV and other DLCs, because both times I ended up with 8+ Daedroth I was trying to control. The damage from that many Daedroth isnt really bad and easily enough managed....the problem is that a taunt only lasts 15 seconds...so keeping them all taunted without running out of stamina can be a challenge...and then of course as soon as you get bubbled you are guaranteed to lose taunt at least one or two...possibly more if you have to run all the way across the room to cleanse. So you always end up with DPS screaming at you about how they have Daedroth on them. What makes it funnier is that they dont seem to realize they are allowed to drop an AOE from time to time on the Daedroth and kill a few, because even for HM you only need 3 alive...but I guess the fact that 8 spawned is an indication that the DPS dont have the extra damage to spare in pugs in that dungeon. There are 2 ways to tank that fight...either run to the back wall to give more time to kill orbs, or keep the daedroth on the platform. I almost always opt to keep the daedroth on the platform because their CC is brutal and will knock the DPS into the flames as they run to you at the back wall....but I have been yelled at about not taking the boss to the back wall before by the healer(because there is less time to kill the orbs with the daedroth on the platform and the boss somewhere in the middle of the room...but this is still preferable to the daedroth stomp cc hitting all the DPS). At this point I just laugh though because obviously those people have never tanked the fight and seen the problems that are caused there by less-than-ideal DPS numbers. It just surprises me that anyone still has trouble with that dungeon....it was VR7(CP70) the last time I still had problems. Both times the group devolved into toxicity, people blaming each other for having trouble, etc etc instead of trying to work together. I realized though that as I watched the DPS, that at least one of them was unaware of the cleanse mechanic because he kept trying to DPS the boss after being bubbled and died shortly afterward. In the end, I consider it a failure of the community in general....the DPS in question was 300+ CP and completely unaware of the cleanse mech even though he had run the dungeon and finished it multiple times....how does that even happen? I did of course take the time to explain the mech after I saw that and we did finish the dungeon(wasn't very fun really though, trying to keep taunt on that many ads while being bubbled never is)

Bucky_13

MaleAmazon wrote: »

If you que up for Vet and can't block or Roll Dodge

...you might be a DD?

Gotta be honest, it's a running joke in my guild that I have no idea what block is. In my defense, I'm a stamblade and I know how to dodge and ress mid combat at least.

PizzaCat82

People that queue up for Vet DLC dungeons and just "Oh I just handle it as they come" make me irrationally angry.

I get you want to be surpised and challenged but do that with your guild, not my free time.

I feel like I owe ti to every group I join, even on normal, to know the mechanics of the bosses and dungeon. It's called valuing everyone's time and giving them respect.

El_Borracho

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Killed by an add heavy? Was it MHK?
There aren't that many dungeons were "regular" adds can one shot you.

falkreath hold

Ahh. I've seen this happen a bunch of times with the first add pull in Unhallowed Grave. And then there is always the classic: Drodda in Direfrost. "Why does the boss keep healing?" Yeah....

Girl_Number8

why are you not in a top guild to smoothly complete your dailies?

Athyrium93

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

People that queue up for Vet DLC dungeons and just "Oh I just handle it as they come" make me irrationally angry.

I get you want to be surpised and challenged but do that with your guild, not my free time.

I feel like I owe ti to every group I join, even on normal, to know the mechanics of the bosses and dungeon. It's called valuing everyone's time and giving them respect.

Unfortunately it can be hard to learn the mechanics in this game, and in a lot of runs the mechanics are skipped right over or just ignored, so as a newer player they can be hard to learn, and even finding a guild willing to show you the ropes can be difficult.

Personally I've made it a point to look up guides for every dungeon in the game, but even those guides don't always prepare you for the reality of the dungeon. When you tell people to get better and get more experience the easiest way (and often the only way) to do that is to PUG. Finding a guild to teach you like everyone always says is incredibly difficult, or at least has been in my experience. I play a healer and the person I always play with plays a tank, you would think we could find a guild or just a couple DPS in zone chat willing to give us some pointers in harder dungeons so they could at least take advantage of an instant queue, but nope. We almost always end up PUGing, and that's how we have learned every dungeon including DLC an vet so far...

El_Borracho

@Athyrium93 Agree, those guides only get you so far. But that's why they make the normal DLC dungeon. I think its lunacy to run a vet DLC dungeon without running the normal version first, at least on group finder. Sure, if you are a member of a guild you can run a vet DLC dungeon with patient guildies, but even then I still feel like I am an anchor more than helping.

Nobody expects perfection, but we should all expect preparedness for vet DLC dungeons. If more people did what you do, it would be a far more pleasant experience to PUG something like Scalecaller or Frostvault.

MaleAmazon

Gotta be honest, it's a running joke in my guild that I have no idea what block is. In my defense, I'm a stamblade and I know how to dodge and ress mid combat at least.

TBH I didn´t mean *actual* DDs so much as "people who think that not knowing anything about blocking gives them more DPS".

But copying an online build guide, not learning game mechanics on how to use said build guide, and then blaming others for your own lack of understanding, does nothing for anyone.

So much this.

There are quite a few places in the game that have those 'newbie massacre' moments, too. Usually some boss that has a mechanic you must know, or learn. You know, the times when you, if you play the healer, can just stand back, take a deep breath and your hands off the keyboard, and watch the rest of the team die - often right on cue.

-Gamyne Bandu (my first 'wtf do I do here?!?' moment back in the days).
-Mammoth boss fire AoE in Falkreath.
-Velidreth´s spike (to be fair that one kills everyone sometimes, and it can be due to latency or some sync thing)
-And many others.

The latest for me was Moongrave Fane, though IMO the game just doesn´t explain those mechanics - or maybe I just missed it. Thinking specifically that you need to heavy attack the orbs. I just don´t recall the game teaching you that.

The greatest ESO moments are when you get people who don´t know what to do, teach each other, then pull through.