Knight Errant change/improvement request

Nemesis7884

I always thought this set could be cool, also in combo with master1h+shield

but increasing the wp damage bonus is pointless when it still only accounts to 1h+sh abilities that had their damage nerfed to the ground

so why not rather give a general smaller weapon damage bonus instead of a 1h+s specific one

like 350 wp in general for example...than the set could be interesting to use


basically a bit of an alternative to seventh legion and a similar power level but more burst heal instead of sustained...that be really cool

YandereGirlfriend

I think that this set is meant to fit into the Sword-Singer, Sword-Dancer, Light Speaker, etc. weapon-specific enhancer item sets but for whatever reason its damage was not standardized to the old 400-level that all of the other ones share.

Changing it to generic weapon damage would change the spirit of the set in a fundamental way. That said, they would need to increase the damage buff to astronomical levels (1000+), which is fine by me, for it to be even considered using.

There should be at least one set in the game (e.g. this one) that makes S&S a somewhat-viable damage setup for PvP but their new change feels like an awkward half-measure since, as you say, the S&S skills have already been nerfed into Oblivion damage-wise.

Nemesis7884

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I think that this set is meant to fit into the Sword-Singer, Sword-Dancer, Light Speaker, etc. weapon-specific enhancer item sets but for whatever reason its damage was not standardized to the old 400-level that all of the other ones share.

Changing it to generic weapon damage would change the spirit of the set in a fundamental way. That said, they would need to increase the damage buff to astronomical levels (1000+), which is fine by me, for it to be even considered using.

There should be at least one set in the game (e.g. this one) that makes S&S a somewhat-viable damage setup for PvP but their new change feels like an awkward half-measure since, as you say, the S&S skills have already been nerfed into Oblivion damage-wise.

I completely disagree

2h and dw are DAMAGE weapons and viable as damage weapons

1h+Shield is NOT - NO ONE uses it as a damage dealing skill line so the comparison is mute

especially since the bonus is lower and in combination with a heal re-iterating its nature as a defensive option

and you also contradict yourself with your statement saying that 1h+shield should be viable as a set up for pvp - this set change does NOTHING for that while my proposed change WOULD

Keeping the "nature" of something (I even disagree with this premise) is pointless if nothing useful comes out of it - The set wasn't used before and won't be used afterwards, so all zos did is waste their limited resources on pointless changes...

FirmamentOfStars

Sword and board was the a widely used weapon before the damage on all the skills got nerfed. Spamming puncture and low slash was good dps and many PvP builds used them. Just because there is a shield, doesnt mean its a defensive weapon. But the fantasy of the devs was snb to be a defensive weapon line and should not deal damage. The set was bad before the damage nerf on snb skills and is bad now, since those skills do not deal much damage.

Changing the set to general weapon damage would be against the initial purpose of the set: increasing the damage for snb skills.

I rather like to see this set increading the damage of snb skills to their former state before the nerf. That would make the set at least a bit appealing.

mzprx

i use the Knight-Errant on my tank for overland stuff. questing, skyshards hunting, things like that. 1H/S and jewelry paired with (all Infused for more Stamina) Velidreth and Briarheart (on body) plus the Maelstrom bow on back bar. this way i don't have to change anything from my tanking setup (CP, attributes, Mundus, etc.), nor do i need to learn a "DPS" skill line (like 2H or dual-wield) and it doesn't take two hours to kill a delve boss. in fact, i deal some meaningful damage. not enough to call myself a proper DD, but everyone who ever tried to do overland stuff on their tank knows that it's a pain in the buttocks. with this setup it isn't. so gaining even more damage for the 1H/S is awesome. i do like this a ton..

Nemesis7884

people always say its against its nature

WHO CARES???? WHY WOULD THAT MATTER????

this is such a nonsense argument just for the sake of making it

congratz useless set that stays true to its nature and stays useless

no one used it before no one uses it in the future, work done for nothing fantastic

but at least it stayed "true to its nature"

congratulations

no wonder balancing is where its at with that kind of logic

mzprx

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

...useless set that stays true to its nature and stays useless

no one used it before no one uses it in the future...

it's far from useless. have you ever tried to do overland stuff on a tank? with 1H/S? it takes ages to kill a spider, unless you change your Mundus/learn at least one other skill line (2H/Dual-wield)/change your attributes for the sake of doing other stuff than tanking. hunting skyshards or doing anything really is a pain. this set allows us poor tanks to play the game without sacrificing anything. i have been using this set for years and will keep using it. and i am not alone, that i know..

FirmamentOfStars

Nobody said it should be or stay useless, but that it should bring up snb abilities to its former state to allow decent dps using those skills.

Just giving the set some base weapon damage plus heal when a snb ability is used, then it will stay useless. Tanks in PvE anyway are forced using support sets and not knight errant and in PvP most snb skills are used solely for the debuffs, since spamming them does not do much damage. Therefore a heal on those abilities would be insignificant and everyody will just use NMA or whatever, since they get more damage from that one.

The heal on snb skills only would be worth it, when you spam those skills and for that you would need a high tooltip on those skills. If thats not the case, then the set will be useless.

Stx

I honestly think that if they changed sword singer, knight errant etc to include light/heavy attacks in their weapon damage boost, they may see more use. Adding weapon damage to just weapon abilities is so poor, because no build uses ONLY weapon attacks, but also every build uses light or heavy attacks.

CleymenZero

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I think that this set is meant to fit into the Sword-Singer, Sword-Dancer, Light Speaker, etc. weapon-specific enhancer item sets but for whatever reason its damage was not standardized to the old 400-level that all of the other ones share.

Changing it to generic weapon damage would change the spirit of the set in a fundamental way. That said, they would need to increase the damage buff to astronomical levels (1000+), which is fine by me, for it to be even considered using.

There should be at least one set in the game (e.g. this one) that makes S&S a somewhat-viable damage setup for PvP but their new change feels like an awkward half-measure since, as you say, the S&S skills have already been nerfed into Oblivion damage-wise.

I completely disagree

2h and dw are DAMAGE weapons and viable as damage weapons

1h+Shield is NOT - NO ONE uses it as a damage dealing skill line so the comparison is mute

especially since the bonus is lower and in combination with a heal re-iterating its nature as a defensive option

and you also contradict yourself with your statement saying that 1h+shield should be viable as a set up for pvp - this set change does NOTHING for that while my proposed change WOULD

Keeping the "nature" of something (I even disagree with this premise) is pointless if nothing useful comes out of it - The set wasn't used before and won't be used afterwards, so all zos did is waste their limited resources on pointless changes...

How does your opinion supersede actual facts? The concept that sword and shield is an exclusively defensive weapon style is wrong. Warriors who fought in the past would use sword and shield. That would allow you to be more defensive as you go on the offensive and that's the same mindset in this game by the defensive bonuses granted and the offensive passives + power bash. It's natural for sword and shield to be a tank skill line in PvE but also natural for it to be an offensive option in PvP. Simple as that.

The fact that you're not considering that there's a passive where you get 5% more weapon damage when wearing s&s and that power bash damage increases with each use up to a maximum says something.

PapaWeeb

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

people always say its against its nature

WHO CARES???? WHY WOULD THAT MATTER????

this is such a nonsense argument just for the sake of making it

congratz useless set that stays true to its nature and stays useless

no one used it before no one uses it in the future, work done for nothing fantastic

but at least it stayed "true to its nature"

congratulations

no wonder balancing is where its at with that kind of logic

There are a million and one sets that add generic weapon damage. Why the hell do we need another boring one, just slot new moon or fury or something.

The "nature" of these sets is to give higher damage buffs than a generic set, because they affect that skill line in particular. This can allow for some interesting builds, at least now that they're getting a buff. War Maiden and Sword Singer are both gonna be really decent, I've already used them to good effect on live.

Just because we want the set to stay "true to its nature", doesn't mean we're asking for it to be crap. Buff its numbers so s&b is more viable as a main damage bar.

Sahidom

I have used Knights Errant set and the new increase is a welcome change to improve s/b skills. The heal itself is not very enticing tho. Most tanks rely on their magicka pool to heal, buff and CC enemies for their group. An alternative to changing what the sets w/d effects may be changing the heal to a magical restore proc with the same conditions, as the current heal. This would open up the utility of the set without going off-base on the sets intent for s/b but supports other tanking and defensive skills.

Stx

Sword and shield is fun to main bar. People think it deals low damage...

Power bash deals the same damage as every other instant spammable and it has a really cool mechanic where you gain damage on it the more you block which I think is one of the better designed skills in the game.

Deep slash deals the same damage as brawler, and applies minor maim in aoe.

I still don't see this set being usable due to the necessity to also use class abilities but its a step in the right direction.

Sleep724

I thought about this updated set for about a second after seeing it, since I do use deep slash as a main spammable in pvp. However, NMA will still outperform this as it gives more weapon damage, buffs your heals and light/heavy attacks and gives penetration.

It needs to be 550 weapon damage at least to even be considered.

DomstarX

Why not consider something like:
"(5 Items) Dealing damage with any One Hand and Shield ability or Shield Bash will give you one stack of (*insert cool name*). Each stack lasts 5 seconds and provides 150 weapon power up to 5 stacks. Dealing damage with any non One Hand and Shield ability will consume all stacks and heal you for 500 per stack consumed. After your stacks are consumed you cant generate new stacks for 10 seconds."

so this would mean you have some wind-up before you can try to one combo your opponent and if you miss your opportunity you get the penalty to not generate new stacks for 10seconds. also you would need to be cautious about the skills you use and the burst timing. with the increased weapon dmg you get amplified heals as long as you keep the stacks up and when you decide to consume the stacks with something like NB bow or DK leap you could do some juicy dmg.