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I'm going to assume some of these changes are a crude joke

HalvarIronfist
HalvarIronfist
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Armor Traits

Impenetrable: Reduced the Critical Resistance granted to 127, down from 172. You really don't want anyone using Impen any more, do you? Two nerfs in a row.

Invigorating: Increased the Recovery bonuses granted to 16, up from 11. Can we just rework invigorating already? I've played here since beta and I've NEVER seen this used.
Nirnhoned: Decreased the Armor granted to 253, down from 301. People use nirnhoned armor?


Mundus Stones

The Mage and The Tower: Decreased the maximum resource granted to 2023, down from 2028.
The Lord: Decreased the Max Health granted to 2225, down from 2230.
The Lady and The Lover: Decreased the Armor and Armor Penetration granted to 2744, down from 2752.
The Thief: Increased the Critical Strike rating granted to 1537, up from 1533.

I... are you just under some sort of.. "You need to make this many changes" quota?

The Mage and The Tower: Decreased the maximum resource granted to 2023, down from 2028.
The Lord: Decreased the Max Health granted to 2225, down from 2230.


Mundus stone nerfs by... 5 HP...Stamina.. Mag? I... Why even bother?

I've been re-reading these patch notes and I've found nothing that actually makes me mad for once.. on the contrary, I've been laughing like I'm clinically insane because of how silly some of these changes are.
  • Myrddin1357
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    I'm pretty certain these values are due to the 'magic spreadsheet' they are using to standardize power levels. The changes make absolutely no difference in game so I doubt any manual work went into this. The spreadsheet probably spat out numbers based on whatever formula they defined and these were used as the adjustments.
  • Veinblood1965
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    Awe you laugh but 5 here and 5 there and then after a year it's a NINJA NERF!
  • Vevvev
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    Some are quite odd but then again the divines trait is getting buffed from 7.5% to 9.1%. Might have a part to play in the small number changes.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • lucky_Sage
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    I can’t believe divines got buffed It’s only the bis trait for dmg. Nirn and invigorating both need reworked both are never used
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • Langeston
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    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I can’t believe divines got buffed It’s only the bis trait for dmg. Nirn and invigorating both need reworked both are never used

    Slight correction: Shadow is/was the BIS PVE Mundus, and because Divines amplifies that, it was (and maybe still is, I dunno) the BIS PVE Trait.

    None of that is true in PVP however, with Impen being the the strongest trait overall and for the most part a no-brainer (even with the changes from last patch), and the Warrior/Apprentice/Lover being the best damage munduses, with Shadow only being useful for certain niche builds. With Shadow dropping to 11% (17% with all gold divines) and the buffs to certain other traits/munduses, along with the introduction of Elemental Catalyst, (which allows Shadow-like crit damage thus freeing you up to use other munduses) this opens up a ton of possibilities that were just not available before.

    Will it affect the meta? I have no clue. But until someone sits down & does the math after taking all of the new traits/munduses/sets into consideration, it isn't as cut & dried anymore. For instance: on my PVP magblade, Divines/Atronach might be BIS now — even on my high crit damage build — due to the buff Atronach/Divines got, and the introduction of Elemental Catalyst. (The Merciless Resolve change plays a part as well.)

    The reduction of crit resists is approaching where it should be — I think it should still go a bit further, although I think perhaps it should be taken from the base crit resist rather than the Impen trait. If the base crit resistance was 602 (~9%) and the total you could get from 7 Impen was 1204 (~18%), it would be right at the same level Impen was before the initial changes, and I think that was a good place to be in CP and no CP.

    The proc sets, however, are a complete [snip] and I think they will completely overshadow all of the interesting changes that ZOS has come up with. So to me, this patch is shaping up to be a very mixed bag.

    [edited for profanity]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 15, 2020 2:33PM
  • Luckylancer
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    I think they want more crit builds in pvp and they balance malacath ring this way. You have to think to make the connection between these.

    I think divines buff is for pvp. Pve will use divines no matter what anyways. Divines used to have *** value but it was the only trait that increase damage = bis in pve. Now it will still be bis in pve and it will have a use in pvp.
  • FrancisCrawford
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    On the whole, I thought the smart/reasonable/dumb mix in this patch was surprisingly favorable.

    But of course there are some headscratchers. Most hilarious to me is that they nerfed Barkskin. :)
  • HalvarIronfist
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    I'm pretty certain these values are due to the 'magic spreadsheet' they are using to standardize power levels. The changes make absolutely no difference in game so I doubt any manual work went into this. The spreadsheet probably spat out numbers based on whatever formula they defined and these were used as the adjustments.

    This is more than likely the culprit, but you'd imagine they must manually still review these changes.. I mean honestly, taking 5 health/stam/mag does nothing at all against any build.

    That's why something like this is just curious, why even bother pushing that through?
  • Hurbster
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    Sounds like a waste of time and resources.
    So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.
  • Beffagorn
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    One of the devs during covid lockdown was bored and decided to randomly change some values by +10 here, a -5 there and a whopping -11 on that other thing. Gotta keep busy, man.
  • martijnlv40
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    Beffagorn wrote: »
    One of the devs during covid lockdown was bored and decided to randomly change some values by +10 here, a -5 there and a whopping -11 on that other thing. Gotta keep busy, man.

    Probably an algorithm which followed a standardization and they just copied the values. Doesn’t really matter but I like the consistency.
    Langeston wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I can’t believe divines got buffed It’s only the bis trait for dmg. Nirn and invigorating both need reworked both are never used

    Slight correction: Shadow is/was the BIS PVE Mundus, and because Divines amplifies that, it was (and maybe still is, I dunno) the BIS PVE Trait.

    None of that is true in PVP however, with Impen being the the strongest trait overall and for the most part a no-brainer (even with the changes from last patch), and the Warrior/Apprentice/Lover being the best damage munduses, with Shadow only being useful for certain niche builds. With Shadow dropping to 11% (17% with all gold divines) and the buffs to certain other traits/munduses, along with the introduction of Elemental Catalyst, (which allows Shadow-like crit damage thus freeing you up to use other munduses) this opens up a ton of possibilities that were just not available before.

    Will it affect the meta? I have no clue. But until someone sits down & does the math after taking all of the new traits/munduses/sets into consideration, it isn't as cut & dried anymore. For instance: on my PVP magblade, Divines/Atronach might be BIS now — even on my high crit damage build — due to the buff Atronach/Divines got, and the introduction of Elemental Catalyst. (The Merciless Resolve change plays a part as well.)

    The reduction of crit resists is approaching where it should be — I think it should still go a bit further, although I think perhaps it should be taken from the base crit resist rather than the Impen trait. If the base crit resistance was 602 (~9%) and the total you could get from 7 Impen was 1204 (~18%), it would be right at the same level Impen was before the initial changes, and I think that was a good place to be in CP and no CP.

    The proc sets, however, are a complete [snip] and I think they will completely overshadow all of the interesting changes that ZOS has come up with. So to me, this patch is shaping up to be a very mixed bag.

    The shadow lost 1% crit damage (with 7 divines), to 18%. Probably for the better since the choice is now less obvious. Changes to the thief and the elemental catalyst set really make it less clear cut. So we just have to wait how the meta settles and adjust to that. Luckily changing mundus stones is a easy thing, compared to farming a new set.
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 15, 2020 2:33PM
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    Best are Shacklebreaker / Crafty Alfiq / Draugr Hulk changes...

    Shacklebreaker got 65 buff to both recources... and Alfiq / Draugr got 10 nerf...
    Not that it matters, but... Can any one tell me, what is the logic behind this ?

    An already mathematically stronger set got buffed, but mathematically weaker sets got nerfed ? Something is wrong here...

    I think their spreadsheet is self-aware and is trying to take over the world... They should get rid of it, while they still can...
  • Langeston
    Langeston
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    Beffagorn wrote: »
    One of the devs during covid lockdown was bored and decided to randomly change some values by +10 here, a -5 there and a whopping -11 on that other thing. Gotta keep busy, man.

    Probably an algorithm which followed a standardization and they just copied the values. Doesn’t really matter but I like the consistency.
    Langeston wrote: »
    lucky_Sage wrote: »
    I can’t believe divines got buffed It’s only the bis trait for dmg. Nirn and invigorating both need reworked both are never used

    Slight correction: Shadow is/was the BIS PVE Mundus, and because Divines amplifies that, it was (and maybe still is, I dunno) the BIS PVE Trait.

    None of that is true in PVP however, with Impen being the the strongest trait overall and for the most part a no-brainer (even with the changes from last patch), and the Warrior/Apprentice/Lover being the best damage munduses, with Shadow only being useful for certain niche builds. With Shadow dropping to 11% (17% with all gold divines) and the buffs to certain other traits/munduses, along with the introduction of Elemental Catalyst, (which allows Shadow-like crit damage thus freeing you up to use other munduses) this opens up a ton of possibilities that were just not available before.

    Will it affect the meta? I have no clue. But until someone sits down & does the math after taking all of the new traits/munduses/sets into consideration, it isn't as cut & dried anymore. For instance: on my PVP magblade, Divines/Atronach might be BIS now — even on my high crit damage build — due to the buff Atronach/Divines got, and the introduction of Elemental Catalyst. (The Merciless Resolve change plays a part as well.)

    The reduction of crit resists is approaching where it should be — I think it should still go a bit further, although I think perhaps it should be taken from the base crit resist rather than the Impen trait. If the base crit resistance was 602 (~9%) and the total you could get from 7 Impen was 1204 (~18%), it would be right at the same level Impen was before the initial changes, and I think that was a good place to be in CP and no CP.

    The proc sets, however, are a complete [snip] and I think they will completely overshadow all of the interesting changes that ZOS has come up with. So to me, this patch is shaping up to be a very mixed bag.

    The shadow lost 1% crit damage (with 7 divines), to 18%. Probably for the better since the choice is now less obvious. Changes to the thief and the elemental catalyst set really make it less clear cut. So we just have to wait how the meta settles and adjust to that. Luckily changing mundus stones is a easy thing, compared to farming a new set.
    Huh, you're right. For some reason I was only getting 17% on the PTS though. I guess it's possible that one of my pieces was a trait other than divines, but I don't think I transmuted anything. In any case, yes I agree. There are so many variables in play now & it's really interesting. Usually I'm able to figure things out pretty quick just by swapping out sets/traits/munduses, but I think I'm going to try out a build editor this time around.
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 15, 2020 2:33PM
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