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Tanky dragonknight build

ascan7
ascan7
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I exhumed up an old Dragonknight character i had.
Mainly for PvP, nord with 2-hander and sord&shield. Sets are Selene, Viper 's Sting and Plague Doctor. Is this build still good or i have to completely change my sets?
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Oof. Probably not as tanky as it once was. Viper's is just not that effective anymore. Plague Doctor is great for health, but there are so many more heavy sets that give you more resistances. Selene's is just bad in PVP. The bear is dodgeable and telegraphed.

    7th Legion and Fury are two of the more popular sets for PVP. Monster sets like Thurkovun or Mighty Chudan are popular. And Tremorscale has been reworked, so that's making a comeback.

    There's lots of new sets out there. New Moon Acolyte is one. Give them a try
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Seventh has become a back bar set and, while not bad, has largely fallen out of favor. It's not the automatic go to set it once was. The same can be said to a lesser degree about Warrior's Fury.

    New Moon, single-barred - front bar only, is the new default set for virtually everyone, though not the only choice. You might combine it with Stuhn, another crafted set, especially since Dizzying Swing now applies Off Balance. However, with the introduction of mythic items, it's become important to find a set you can backbar. A typical build pattern is 2x monster, 5x front bar set, 4x other set on front bar / which becomes 5x or 6x on back bar, 1x mythic item. The mythics to look for on DK include the Malacath ring, the Wild Hunt ring or the Torc of Tonal Constancy. Clever Alchemist is becoming popular again as a back bar set, but Seventh would work as would Armor Master (in medium) or maybe (what I use) Coward's Gear for the mobility I feel DK lacks.

    Some alternative sets include Titanborn (which largely supersedes Spriggan), while on the more defensive side there's Ancient Dragonguard and Pariah is becoming somewhat popular, as Fortified Brass was nerfed. I don't personally think a defensive set is needed on stam DK (other than still wearing Bloodspawn), especially when you are a Nord, who now have resistances from a racial passive, as well as ulti gen. Good race for DK. It's also fair to say that heavy armor is no longer meta. With transmutation in the mix you can for example create Infused Fury jewelry, if you wanted to. DK thrives on weapon damage and the current patch allows you to get high weapon damage sets in medium for that extra 15% passive. I feel the most important factor that makes you feel tanky is 1H + Shield. The choice between heavy and medium is more of a tossup. However, if you choose to go with the Malacath ring and perhaps in no CP, then heavy is the obvious partner for that.

    Selene was always a set that misses a lot, but that causes people to waste stamina, as they dodge roll out of it. It's honestly the same as it ever was. It's got a purpose, even if it misses.

    Bloodspawn was forever the default choice for DK, but has been heavily nerfed this patch. I would say DK is a class where it still makes sense, but an obvious alternative is Balorgh, which was buffed. You may also choose to forgo a 2x monster set in order to run a mythic and two full 5 piece sets.

    I can see no use for Mighty Chudan on a DK. As a one piece it is badly nerfed. As a two piece, it is worthless, because Volatile Armor is a very good skill that every DK slots not merely for the resistances, but the +12% healing passive from that skill line. Invaluable, especially with the healing nerfs this patch.

    Viper is long dead. I occasionally run into some people in no CP using it, but I don't think it makes sense with a 2H main bar, since it's been turned into a DOT.

    Plague Doctor is just a no from me. If you want health, there are better ways of getting it. By the way, don't use Green Dragon Blood. It's crap. Your heals are Rally, Resolving Vigor and Cauterize (very good). Most DKs alse run Fragmented Shield for the healing buff and the Minor Brutality. In terms of getting health, there are new reasonably cheap foods, such as Bewitched Sugar Skulls. If you want more sustain, then Artaeum Takeaway Broth or Dubious Camoran Throne. Tri-stat enchants and triune jewelry are stat-efficient - although on DK you likely want to go for Infused jewelry (of at least purple quality). Clever Alchemist is the obvious way to get some health via a set.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
    fred4
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    The more I think about it, there are many sets that people have run in intervening patches that the general population has possibly moved past, but that are still good sets. One such example is Cyrodiil's Crest. It makes for a good back bar set and it will make you feel tanky. Being tanky is as much, if not more, about healing as it is about actual tankiness. Resistances can be bypassed by Onlaught (2H ult) and many newer and revised sets include armor penetration, which is very effective, such as New Moon, Titanborn, Stuhn, Balorgh and so on. One thing to note, however, is that Corrosive Armor fell victim to some wild meta swings and patch changes, which means it will only give penetration to your direct damage abilities, not your DOTs. That said, the preferred ultimate on stam DK remains Take Flight and you may find that it hits harder than when you last played.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    Thank you all guys!
    Oof. Probably not as tanky as it once was

    Big Oof indeed. This character was made to be really "easy" to use and i used to show the game to my girlfriend and some friend and let them try. Plague and Viper were really effective while being completely "passive". I guess i'll have to change now.
    fred4 wrote: »
    Lots of useful info
    Thank you! This helps me... a little! Lot of things have changed, dammit :/

    My skills are:
    Rally, Brawler, Dizzying Swing, Executioner, Razor Caltrops, Take Flight (2h)
    Invasion, Volatile Armor, Noxious Breath, Igneous Shield, Resolving Vigor, Pack Leader

    i'll probably need to update them too, but i guess sets need more work first

    food is not a problem because i can make a lot of purple and yellow food and i have money to buy the new recipes if i need.
    fred4 wrote: »
    That said, the preferred ultimate on stam DK remains Take Flight and you may find that it hits harder than when you last played.

    Thankfully i always used Take Flight! At least i'm doing something right

    So i'd like some "simple" build with:
    - monster set (Selen? Tremorscale? Balorgh?)
    - defensive set (goodbye Plague Doctor...)
    - offensive set (New Moon? Titanborn? Stuhn?)

    Dammit, a lot of these cool sets are new! I don't have the last DLCs, i stopped around Murkmire, but i think i'm going to buy Greymoor.
    Edited by ascan7 on July 3, 2020 1:34PM
  • fred4
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    This is pretty much what a meta setup looks like:

    https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

    Rally is currently bugged. People are reporting the heal fails to scale properly and is sometimes really small, even at the end. You also want root / snare removal, so Forward Momentum is a good choice in heavy armor. In that case you want Vigor and Cauterize for heals.

    I'd probably only run Brawler, if using a Master's 2H weapon.

    Caltrops was nerfed / changed some time ago, so that's probably a no.

    Executioner is good. This was buffed to up to 400%.

    Change Igneous to Fragmented. The latter has the longer healing buff now.

    Werewolf was heavily buffed, this patch, thus might be worth running. I don't know how to build for that, though. Your heal is health-based, so I can see where Plague Doctor came in. I probably still wouldn't use that set to get health, though. I just have a feeling the 5-piece may have been nerfed since when you last ran it, but I could be wrong.

    I don't think people necessarily run defensive sets. Ancient Dragonguard and Pariah both come to mind, but if you look at Alcast's build, while he uses a set with 2x health buffs (Clever Alchemist) he also uses a food with no health. Getting sustain from that food allowed him to go for the juicy Infused weapon damage on the jewelry. That said, his build would probably not have enough sustain for me. I'm in medium and at 2K unbuffed. In heavy you need less, but maybe I'd run 1.6K.

    The reason Alcast uses Alchemist would appear to be the inclusion of a mythic item in one of the setups. If you forgo that (which is fine - mythics are a bit polarizing) then things get simpler as you can simply run two sets. If one of those is New Moon, though, people only tend to run that on the front bar, whereas the back bar tends to be Blessing of Potentates (5% damage reduction from players).
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    I want to be someway tankier than the normal build. Without Plague Doctor (looks nerfed to me) or another defensive set, maybe a more defensive monster set?
    Something like Malubeth is still good?
    Maybe using a couple of health glyph with some pieces?

    Maybe i'll go New Moon main bar and Alchemist backbar. Seems effective... however, i don't have the DLC for New Moon.
    Maybe i can just buy Greymoor and try to go Stuhn main bar and Crest of Cyrodiil backbar?

    Thank you for your help!
    Edited by ascan7 on July 3, 2020 5:21PM
  • fred4
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    You don't need the DLC for New Moon. All you need is a guild hall. You will need Summerset for jewelry crafting or enlist a crafter. Cheapest way to catch up on all DLC is of course ESO+ (for a while). Greymoor you'd have to buy for the mythics, if you wanted that. Previous chapters become DLC after a year, e.g. including Summerset. Malubeth is still good, mainly for the increased healing when the beam is active. Nothing really wrong with Bloodspawn on DK still. I never use health glyphs. I use tri-stat (Hakeijo) ones. Might as well get the extra magicka. In case you did not know, Hakeijo is now in NPC shop in IC for 5K Tel Var each.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    I guess you know a 2-handed weapon counts for 2 item slots now...
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    fred4 wrote: »
    You don't need the DLC for New Moon.

    Oh nice! Then i'm set! New Moon on main bar, Clever Alchemist on backbar an Malubeth. When i buy Greymoor i'll get the Ring of the WIld Hunt. Thank you!

    You suggest to follow Alcast build for everything else too? Glyphs, mundus, traits...
    fred4 wrote: »
    I guess you know a 2-handed weapon counts for 2 item slots now...

    Yeah i know at least this one XD
  • fred4
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    I think a Nirnhoned Maul is usually preferred to an axe. Axe could cause a bleed, Maul is more burst from Leap / Execute.

    In terms of enchants, what's very strange about Alcast's build is how he mixes tri-stat and stamina enchants, with some of the small pieces having tri-stat enchants. This is not wrong, but it's more expensive than it needs to be. Usually people start with the big pieces (chest, legs, helm) when using tri-stat enchants.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
    ascan7
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I think a Nirnhoned Maul is usually preferred to an axe. Axe could cause a bleed, Maul is more burst from Leap / Execute.

    In terms of enchants, what's very strange about Alcast's build is how he mixes tri-stat and stamina enchants, with some of the small pieces having tri-stat enchants. This is not wrong, but it's more expensive than it needs to be. Usually people start with the big pieces (chest, legs, helm) when using tri-stat enchants.

    How many tri-stat VS stamina glyphs should i use?

    Also, do you think is better to go New Moon, Alchemist and Malubeth or maybe New Moon, Cyrodil Crest and Selene?
  • fred4
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    The number of tri-stat glyphs gets you into fine tuning. They're not all that significant and will depend on your personal preference, at least on a stamina character. Therefore you might start with none, cause they're expensive. Reasons to use them:

    (1) You have numerous, expensive or frequently cast magicka skills. With just Volatile Armor and Cauterize, you need none. With Fragmented shield added you might like some, especially in no CP, as you might like to cast all of those buffs in a row, after which your magicka will be empty. In medium you might also want more than in heavy, because heavy gives you some mag sustain in combat.

    (2) If you simply want to tune up your health, I'd use them, because it's free magicka compared to other methods of getting health. Only if you have (cause you like playing IC) or can afford the Hakeijos, though. You should probably go for between 25K and 30K health in CP.

    (3) It all hinges on the food you're using and how much health and magicka that gives you. With tri-stat food (Sugar Skulls) you tend to not use any Hakeijos. With Dubious Camoran Throne / Artaeum Takeaway Broth, you'll probably use some to increase your magicka pool. With the blue food, which gives you no health, you may want all Hakeijos, depending on your armor set. Alcast used Clever Alchemist. His main reason was for the weapon damage. The set also gave him health. He therefore decided on the blue food, tuning his health up just a little more with Hakeijos.

    For reference, my own build is here:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=239243

    The reason I use tri-stat enchants on my monster pieces is simply that I swap them between different characters and builds and most of them have tri-stat enchants on them by default.

    I have not used Malubeth in like ... ever. The only players I see using that historically tend to be vampires (no health regen) and templars. Up until very recently Troll King was IMO the better option, but it's been nerfed. I still use Bloodspawn. If I was you, I'd probably just stick with Selene. I don't know how much experience you have carrying over from before. If you were a new player, I'd certainly tell you that you're worrying too much about fine tuning at this point and that you need to l2p, cause at first you're going to die a lot regardless.

    Clever Alchemist and Cyrodiil's Crest back bars are polar opposites. One set is mainly aggressive (Alchemist), the other is purely defensive. There's nothing to stop you from carrying both. Get an addon, such as Dressing Room, for switching (on PC).

    I'm trying, but I can't really answer these questions. You have to experiment with where the sweet spot is for you and also this will probably change as you get back into the game. Even though it is objectively strong, I am not personally a big fan of Alchemist, because of the limited up-time and the ways you may fail to activate it, such as bar swap failure in lag or drinking a potion while out of combat. Alchemist only works when you're already in combat to stop NBs from using it for ganking. If you drink the potion at the wrong time, then it's on the potion cooldown (45 seconds).
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I don't know how much experience you have carrying over from before. If you were a new player, I'd certainly tell you that you're worrying too much about fine tuning at this point and that you need to l2p, cause at first you're going to die a lot regardless.

    I just have fond memories of me and my 35k chunk of health XD

    Thank you very much for all the advices! Sorry if i bothered you so much!
  • fred4
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    You're welcome. You're not bothering me, I choose to answer in a public forum or I don't, right? It's just at this point I think you need to go and test how you want to tune your build. It's an individual thing.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    I played with a friend yesterday who is a very good and experienced stam DK. Based on his feedback, I would now say try Cyrodiil's Crest as the back bar set. We've had a healing nerf this patch and he is feeling it pretty badly. While he's used to playing outnumbered and it's painful when you get nerfed, thus what he's feeling is merely relative to last patch and based on him being a 1vXer, I keep coming back to the title of this thread. You want a tanky DK and you have / are used to Selene as the monster set. Then I'd say go for Cyrodiil's Crest to complement that. Can't hurt to have Alchemist in your inventory as well, though, if you already made it.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    Thank you! I'm gonna try Selene/New Moon/Cyrodiil Crest then. Seems like a good build that i will also enjoy.
  • ascan7
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    fred4 wrote: »
    although on DK you likely want to go for Infused jewelry (of at least purple quality).

    Why infused jewelry?
  • fred4
    fred4
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    ascan7 wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    although on DK you likely want to go for Infused jewelry (of at least purple quality).

    Why infused jewelry?
    DK has access to Minor Brutality by casting an Earthen Heart skill. That's an additional +10% weapon damage for a total of +30% when you count the Major Brutality from Rally / Forward Momentum. Building into weapon damage gives you the best bang for the buck on DK. Using Infused jewelry is one of the best ways of doing that.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    However, if you don't have the materials or transmute crystals just yet, then leaving jewelry at Robust or Healthy will be fine for now.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • ascan7
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    Uhm... i get it.
    If i find myself stacking a lot of weapon power, but with enough health/sustain (i'm not as good as Alcast after all) where do you think should i start piling up health/stam regen? Glyph, traits, mundus stone, base stats, or something else?
  • fred4
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    Engine Guardian for sustain. It's a little inconsistent, but it procs a lot and the dwemer automaton is targetable in PvP, which is a big nuisance for players trying to attack you. A lot of people are starting to run that set again after recent rebalancing of monster sets, and rightly so (basically because of the Bloodspawn nerf).

    You get health from running purple or gold foods. If you want more, I prefer packing on some tri-stat glyphs, because it's free magicka.

    When I feel further stamina sustain is needed, I prefer getting it from the Serpent mundus, because of idiosyncracies of the game engine. The serpent mundus and drinks contribute to your out of combat regen, whereas jewelry glyphs and most armor sets do not. Thus, if you are capturing a flag and just standing there, out of combat, you will find your resources come back faster when you're using a mundus and/or drinks than if you got all your sustain from, say, stamina recovery enchants on jewelry. The faster you get your stam back to full in that situation, the sooner you can start to perma-block while standing there, basically making you impossible to gank.

    You have to play around with it. You want to run Selene, Cyrodiil's Crest and New Moon, maybe Serpent and a drink is enough (Artaeum Takeaway Broth or Dubious Camoran Throne). I wouldn't touch the Infused Weapon Damage enchants until last. I'd probably swap out Selene for Engine Guardian before that, but it's a personal choice.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    One thing about Infused jewelry: It wants to be purple or gold. The quality of the jewelry makes a difference with that trait. Blue Infused would be questionable. Robust might well be better in that case. Ideally you would have bought gold Cyrodiil's Crest jewelry during the event and transmuted that to Infused. It's the cheapest way of getting there. Crafting gold New Moon jewelry would be far more expensive. Seeing as we've just had an event, maybe you can get gold Cyrodiil's Crest jewelry at a decent price.

    https://tamrieltradecentre.com/

    EDIT: Hmm, doesn't look that way. People want an arm and a leg for it on PC NA and only necklaces. Purple will do.
    Edited by fred4 on July 9, 2020 7:00PM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
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