Open letter to ZoS about "flashbang" mechanics in Dragonstar Arena (and the game to an extent).

Greystag

TLDR at the end.

Today I woke up happy.
It's the first free weekday I got since my uni exams, so I wanted to have a good relaxed day. I logged into ESO, intending to get a couple of things done before Maintenance. One of these things was giving Dragonstar Arena a try. That's when my positivity turned on its head.
The first stages were fine. I mean, it's just normal DSA so even soloing it one has an easy time. Then came Stage 7's boss.

I can't begin to fathom what goes through a dev's mind when they decide to include a 2-second long, screen-wide, short cooldown bright flashbang in a dimly lit area, coupled with a Nova that also causes a bright screen flash. Now I can imagine this annoys your average player, but I have light hypersensitivity. These effects have always been an issue for me, but ESO is mostly fine. Sometimes the screen flashes white when teleporting, but it tends to be short and rare. Activating a Templar's Nova synergy causes it too, but I usually just close my eyes for half a second after activating it. This mechanic, however, was unpredictable. He just suddenly decides to blind and root you, followed by a Nova that causes the flash once again. The former seemed to happen often, maybe every 7 seconds.
After 2 of these, I was already in a bad mood, and the effects of the sensitivity were starting to kick in (sharp head pains and a blurry vision mainly). It's been an hour now and they persist, and I know the blurriness will stay for longer. I really wanted to finish the Arena before quitting the game and I assumed it'd be a smooth ride from now on, so I just kept going.

Turns out I'm a [snip] donkey because Stage 9 has the same effect when you enter the arena and I had forgotten that the final boss of Stage 10 resurrects previous bosses, so I had the chance to get blinded by my new friend a couple of times before killing the boss and closing the game.

What's the purpose of these? If you want the mechanic to "blind", can you just blind my character and make my screen go black instead of blinding my physical self?
Please do something about this sort of mechanic, I'm serious. I don't think anyone enjoys it.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR: DSA has a boss that flashes your screen white several times. I have light sensitivity and this mechanic has physically affected me.

EDIT: I'm not asking for them to be removed, I'm sorry if I was unclear. I just want a setting that allows us to simply reduce the brightness of these effects or remove/blacken them.

[Minor Edit for Censor Bypass]

code65536

That boss ability was originally a player skill.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blinding_Light

Nairinhe

Honest question: would sunglasses help?

lolo_01b16_ESO

Actually those fights are some of my all time favourite boss fights in the game (even if that blind+nova combo isn't as scary as it used to be). I've so many good memories connected to the "Blinding Flashes" and "Spark" skills, that I would be quite disappointed if they removed it from dsa aswell.

However I understand that it could be annoying if you have issues with bright light. So I wouldn't mind if they added a different setting for reduced brightness, similar to how people with colour blindness can change their red and green circles to colours they can distinguish more easiely.

Kiyakotari

I agree with OP on this being an issue. I have migraines, and while they're not usually triggered by light, if I spend too much time in progression on a fight that involves a lot of bright flashes, it will set one off. Spending the next several hours prone on the bathroom floor in front of the toilet, so I can haul myself up and worship the Porcelain Goddess each time the nausea gets too bad is not my idea of a fun and relaxing experience.

Nirntrotter

I have a similar problem with the opening flash of the scrying augur. Not sure what can be done about it, but it's worth bringing up at least.

Greystag

code65536 wrote: »

That boss ability was originally a player skill.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blinding_Light

Damn, I had no clue. I'm so glad this wasn't implemented.

Nairinhe wrote: »

Honest question: would sunglasses help?

Maybe for some people but not me. It's like lowering your screen brightness: The bright light will be way easier to handle but since the rest of the game is so dim it would be impossible to focus on other mechanics (this boss actually has a mechanic where you have to pay attention at mobs spawning and kill them quickly). I will wear sunglasses the next time I do it though, since I'll tank it and DDs will kill those mobs (I was soloing it today so I had to do everything on my own).

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually those fights are some of my all time favourite boss fights in the game (even if that blind+nova combo isn't as scary as it used to be). I've so many good memories connected to the "Blinding Flashes" and "Spark" skills, that I would be quite disappointed if they removed it from dsa aswell.

However I understand that it could be annoying if you have issues with bright light. So I wouldn't mind if they added a different setting for reduced brightness, similar to how people with colour blindness can change their red and green circles to colours they can distinguish more easiely.

I agree. I understand it if some people enjoy them but I think that at least an option to change these flashes to black (or something similar) should be mandatory, especially when some people are in worse situations than mine, such as people suffering from chronic migraines or even chronic light-triggered seizures (which is the reason why they're so long in this game, as afaik the ones that are more likely to induce seizures are the flashy ones that last very little).

Kiyakotari wrote: »

I agree with OP on this being an issue. I have migraines, and while they're not usually triggered by light, if I spend too much time in progression on a fight that involves a lot of bright flashes, it will set one off. Spending the next several hours prone on the bathroom floor in front of the toilet, so I can haul myself up and worship the Porcelain Goddess each time the nausea gets too bad is not my idea of a fun and relaxing experience.

I thankfully am not affected by migraines. I read that also being submitted to these flashes while suffering from a one can make it even worse. Hope you can handle them well and aren't too bad.


Thanks for the replies, everyone.

finehair

Even though i like that thing i agree, they should add an option to turn those blinding lights to just flat black screens for people with sensivity. That thing is blinding in real life. We're tryng to play a game not having a talk with an archangel that melts our eyes.

Greystag

ethuiliel wrote: »

I have a similar problem with the opening flash of the scrying augur. Not sure what can be done about it, but it's worth bringing up at least.

That's another good one actually. I even became "used" to them after farming antiquities and just instinctively started to squint my eyes when it starts up. I honestly hadn't realised this until now, maybe because it's shorter and not screen-wide, which are the flashes that really get my eyes. Still, ZoS should 100% offer a way to dim it down or remove it, and at least a warning.
Thanks for bringing it up. If anyone else has examples of flashes like these, please note them down too. I may not remember them but I know there are other instances in the game that contain bright flashes and bringing them to ZoS' attention will just make their job easier.

MaleAmazon

Well, to be honest, some games have always had these types of issues (I assume you have to play the boss burn part of Aetherian Archive with your eyes closed). I know of games where you had to complete parts by listening for sound effects or to voices, with no way to have visual cues or subtitles. You can obviously not do that with hearing impairment. I agree that it would be nice if you could "invert" the effect, but at the same time... not to be mean, but there will be light-heavy effects in movies and games - and ESO *does* come with a (standard) photosensitivity warning.

I know some people are helped by sunglasses and you could try to fiddle around with gfx settings.

Sorry I don´t have any great advice, but there seems to be advice on the internet. I am sure you know of this but I´m just going to copy-paste some stuff from an Australian organization that seems to know what they are talking about:

• Sit as far away from the screen as possible.
• Play the game in a well-lit room and reduce the brightness of the display.
• Avoid continuous exposure to the same pattern and don’t play when overtired.
• Check games for epilepsy or seizure warnings.
• If you do find that a game(s) makes you feel like you are going to have a seizure, then it is best to stop playing and keep
exposure to the game in short bursts (have a break every 10-15 minutes).

Coatmagic

There are A LOT of *white screens* it's horrible and lazy design imo as well really, really bad for eyes.

At this point, I've played through content so many times that I know when to close my eyes, and in new content can feel it coming...

Athyrium93

I wish they would just make a visual setting to turn down those bright flashes (and crazy blue electric sparks of lightning staffs and sorcs) could just go gray instead or something

Greystag

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Well, to be honest, some games have always had these types of issues (I assume you have to play the boss burn part of Aetherian Archive with your eyes closed). I know of games where you had to complete parts by listening for sound effects or to voices, with no way to have visual cues or subtitles. You can obviously not do that with hearing impairment. I agree that it would be nice if you could "invert" the effect, but at the same time... not to be mean, but there will be light-heavy effects in movies and games - and ESO *does* come with a (standard) photosensitivity warning.

I know some people are helped by sunglasses and you could try to fiddle around with gfx settings.

Sorry I don´t have any great advice, but there seems to be advice on the internet. I am sure you know of this but I´m just going to copy-paste some stuff from an Australian organization that seems to know what they are talking about:

• Sit as far away from the screen as possible.
• Play the game in a well-lit room and reduce the brightness of the display.
• Avoid continuous exposure to the same pattern and don’t play when overtired.
• Check games for epilepsy or seizure warnings.
• If you do find that a game(s) makes you feel like you are going to have a seizure, then it is best to stop playing and keep
exposure to the game in short bursts (have a break every 10-15 minutes).

Back in the day when I used to farm vAA for Mending pieces, I did heal through the burn phase with my eyes squinted and sometimes closed indeed lol. I know of that advice, but thanks for posting it in case it might help other users. It just sadly isn't the solution for me since I don't suffer from seizures. My issue can only really be solved by the addition of optional ways to tone it down.

MJallday wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

There are A LOT of *white screens* it's horrible and lazy design imo as well really, really bad for eyes.

At this point, I've played through content so many times that I know when to close my eyes, and in new content can feel it coming...

Your “lazy” is someone else’s emmersive

You cannot simply have a game design which everyone else likes

If flashes are causing a health and safety issue for you or it is uncomfortable for you, simply turn down your screen, don’t play that bit or don’t play the game

It’s not uncomfortable for 99.9% of us, so we shouldn’t have to fit everything around that

I'm not asking for the game to adjust to my personal needs, but this is something me and many others have just had to put up with throughout our lives. I don't want anyone's immersion to be broken, I just want an option to help us play the game without these effects.
Imagine if every time you did something specific in the game someone came inside your room and slapped you, dealing a pain you're still able to feel hours later. You wouldn't like that and would want the cause of that slap to stop too, I assume.
I feel like we're entitled to ask for this, and it's coming from someone on the "milder" side of light sensitivity issues.

I'm sorry but your 0.01% is 100% of me and many with similar issues. Games should try to accommodate for such players to an extent. Many other aspects of the game still annoy me, but I'm asking for this because I think it could be somewhat easy to apply (but I'm no game dev so I won't swear on it).

And again. I don't want it to be removed, I just want a setting for it.

Sephyr

Greystag wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Well, to be honest, some games have always had these types of issues (I assume you have to play the boss burn part of Aetherian Archive with your eyes closed). I know of games where you had to complete parts by listening for sound effects or to voices, with no way to have visual cues or subtitles. You can obviously not do that with hearing impairment. I agree that it would be nice if you could "invert" the effect, but at the same time... not to be mean, but there will be light-heavy effects in movies and games - and ESO *does* come with a (standard) photosensitivity warning.

I know some people are helped by sunglasses and you could try to fiddle around with gfx settings.

Sorry I don´t have any great advice, but there seems to be advice on the internet. I am sure you know of this but I´m just going to copy-paste some stuff from an Australian organization that seems to know what they are talking about:

• Sit as far away from the screen as possible.
• Play the game in a well-lit room and reduce the brightness of the display.
• Avoid continuous exposure to the same pattern and don’t play when overtired.
• Check games for epilepsy or seizure warnings.
• If you do find that a game(s) makes you feel like you are going to have a seizure, then it is best to stop playing and keep
exposure to the game in short bursts (have a break every 10-15 minutes).

Back in the day when I used to farm vAA for Mending pieces, I did heal through the burn phase with my eyes squinted and sometimes closed indeed lol. I know of that advice, but thanks for posting it in case it might help other users. It just sadly isn't the solution for me since I don't suffer from seizures. My issue can only really be solved by the addition of optional ways to tone it down.

MJallday wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

There are A LOT of *white screens* it's horrible and lazy design imo as well really, really bad for eyes.

At this point, I've played through content so many times that I know when to close my eyes, and in new content can feel it coming...

Your “lazy” is someone else’s emmersive

You cannot simply have a game design which everyone else likes

If flashes are causing a health and safety issue for you or it is uncomfortable for you, simply turn down your screen, don’t play that bit or don’t play the game

It’s not uncomfortable for 99.9% of us, so we shouldn’t have to fit everything around that

I'm not asking for the game to adjust to my personal needs, but this is something me and many others have just had to put up with throughout our lives. I don't want anyone's immersion to be broken, I just want an option to help us play the game without these effects.
Imagine if every time you did something specific in the game someone came inside your room and slapped you, dealing a pain you're still able to feel hours later. You wouldn't like that and would want the cause of that slap to stop too, I assume.
I feel like we're entitled to ask for this, and it's coming from someone on the "milder" side of light sensitivity issues.

I'm sorry but your 0.01% is 100% of me and many with similar issues. Games should try to accommodate for such players to an extent. Many other aspects of the game still annoy me, but I'm asking for this because I think it could be somewhat easy to apply (but I'm no game dev so I won't swear on it).

And again. I don't want it to be removed, I just want a setting for it.

Honestly, after reading through the thread, I don't see anywhere where you even asked to have it removed. I don't suffer from light sensitivity, but I know people who are. Just like I know some folks who were VERY appreciative when they added the option to change the color of the telegraphs so they could actually tell what they were standing in.

Greystag

Sephyr wrote: »

Greystag wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Well, to be honest, some games have always had these types of issues (I assume you have to play the boss burn part of Aetherian Archive with your eyes closed). I know of games where you had to complete parts by listening for sound effects or to voices, with no way to have visual cues or subtitles. You can obviously not do that with hearing impairment. I agree that it would be nice if you could "invert" the effect, but at the same time... not to be mean, but there will be light-heavy effects in movies and games - and ESO *does* come with a (standard) photosensitivity warning.

I know some people are helped by sunglasses and you could try to fiddle around with gfx settings.

Sorry I don´t have any great advice, but there seems to be advice on the internet. I am sure you know of this but I´m just going to copy-paste some stuff from an Australian organization that seems to know what they are talking about:

• Sit as far away from the screen as possible.
• Play the game in a well-lit room and reduce the brightness of the display.
• Avoid continuous exposure to the same pattern and don’t play when overtired.
• Check games for epilepsy or seizure warnings.
• If you do find that a game(s) makes you feel like you are going to have a seizure, then it is best to stop playing and keep
exposure to the game in short bursts (have a break every 10-15 minutes).

Back in the day when I used to farm vAA for Mending pieces, I did heal through the burn phase with my eyes squinted and sometimes closed indeed lol. I know of that advice, but thanks for posting it in case it might help other users. It just sadly isn't the solution for me since I don't suffer from seizures. My issue can only really be solved by the addition of optional ways to tone it down.

MJallday wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

There are A LOT of *white screens* it's horrible and lazy design imo as well really, really bad for eyes.

At this point, I've played through content so many times that I know when to close my eyes, and in new content can feel it coming...

Your “lazy” is someone else’s emmersive

You cannot simply have a game design which everyone else likes

If flashes are causing a health and safety issue for you or it is uncomfortable for you, simply turn down your screen, don’t play that bit or don’t play the game

It’s not uncomfortable for 99.9% of us, so we shouldn’t have to fit everything around that

I'm not asking for the game to adjust to my personal needs, but this is something me and many others have just had to put up with throughout our lives. I don't want anyone's immersion to be broken, I just want an option to help us play the game without these effects.
Imagine if every time you did something specific in the game someone came inside your room and slapped you, dealing a pain you're still able to feel hours later. You wouldn't like that and would want the cause of that slap to stop too, I assume.
I feel like we're entitled to ask for this, and it's coming from someone on the "milder" side of light sensitivity issues.

I'm sorry but your 0.01% is 100% of me and many with similar issues. Games should try to accommodate for such players to an extent. Many other aspects of the game still annoy me, but I'm asking for this because I think it could be somewhat easy to apply (but I'm no game dev so I won't swear on it).

And again. I don't want it to be removed, I just want a setting for it.

Honestly, after reading through the thread, I don't see anywhere where you even asked to have it removed. I don't suffer from light sensitivity, but I know people who are. Just like I know some folks who were VERY appreciative when they added the option to change the color of the telegraphs so they could actually tell what they were standing in.

I think it may have been vague describing it in the OP. AoE colour changing seems such an obvious thing to add, I'm very glad they did it in the end. Thanks for the support

Darkenarlol

there is a feature in Warframe that allows you to control

visual effects intensivity from almost non-existent to rip your eyes levels

which is really nice to have alongside with color blind adapting system

Greystag

Darkenarlol wrote: »

there is a feature in Warframe that allows you to control

visual effects intensivity from almost non-existent to rip your eyes levels

which is really nice to have alongside with color blind adapting system

Was it the energy colours? Because I remember changing the energy colours of a bunch of Frames to darker tones because of this. I love how much customisation WF offers. Wish ESO's system had the same depth.

Vevvev

Greystag wrote: »

ethuiliel wrote: »

I have a similar problem with the opening flash of the scrying augur. Not sure what can be done about it, but it's worth bringing up at least.

That's another good one actually. I even became "used" to them after farming antiquities and just instinctively started to squint my eyes when it starts up. I honestly hadn't realised this until now, maybe because it's shorter and not screen-wide, which are the flashes that really get my eyes. Still, ZoS should 100% offer a way to dim it down or remove it, and at least a warning.
Thanks for bringing it up. If anyone else has examples of flashes like these, please note them down too. I may not remember them but I know there are other instances in the game that contain bright flashes and bringing them to ZoS' attention will just make their job easier.

I've been doing that to. I don't have issues with head aches and stuff but even then the bright flash hurts my eyes. I always finding myself looking away or closing my eyes after and before every scry.

AlnilamE

Greystag wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

That boss ability was originally a player skill.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blinding_Light

Damn, I had no clue. I'm so glad this wasn't implemented.

It actually was a templar skill when the game first came out. I was changed at some point because PvPers complained. I don't recall exactly what skill replaced it.

The bosses in that stage are a Templar and a Sorc, as originally designed in the game.

Another skill that got changed was the nightblade's Malefic Wreath, which used to be a cc skill and it's now been changed to a healing skill. You can still see mobs using that skill on us, but we can't use it anymore.

That said, I hope they give you an option to tone down flashes like that.

Minyassa

A brightness cap toggle would be a really good idea. I have a friend who gets migraines that have also been set off by screen flashes. It would be great to put that into video settings just to limit the amount of flash if someone needs it.

Greystag

AlnilamE wrote: »

Greystag wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

That boss ability was originally a player skill.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Blinding_Light

Damn, I had no clue. I'm so glad this wasn't implemented.

It actually was a templar skill when the game first came out. I was changed at some point because PvPers complained. I don't recall exactly what skill replaced it.

The bosses in that stage are a Templar and a Sorc, as originally designed in the game.

Another skill that got changed was the nightblade's Malefic Wreath, which used to be a cc skill and it's now been changed to a healing skill. You can still see mobs using that skill on us, but we can't use it anymore.

That said, I hope they give you an option to tone down flashes like that.

I think it was replaced by Jesus beam. I'm glad people spoke out against it and it got changed.

Minyassa wrote: »

A brightness cap toggle would be a really good idea. I have a friend who gets migraines that have also been set off by screen flashes. It would be great to put that into video settings just to limit the amount of flash if someone needs it.

I'm happy (kinda, I wish others didnt have to deal with it too) to hear I'm not alone in this. I really hope ZOS hears us and decides to help.

AlienatedGoat

I'm truly sorry to hear about this issue. There should absolutely be an option to tone down these kinds of effects, in every game.

ESO already has color options to assist with colorblindedness. ZOS should take that commitment further and implement options to assist with light and flash sensitivity.

It's 2020 and the game industry has a massive reach. Nobody should have to literally suffer through headaches, nausea, blurry vision, seizures, etc - just to enjoy their favorite hobby.

Darkenarlol

Greystag wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

there is a feature in Warframe that allows you to control

visual effects intensivity from almost non-existent to rip your eyes levels

which is really nice to have alongside with color blind adapting system

Was it the energy colours? Because I remember changing the energy colours of a bunch of Frames to darker tones because of this. I love how much customisation WF offers. Wish ESO's system had the same depth.

ofc you can change the energy color to reduce brightness

but i'm talking specifically about visual effects slider in the settings menu that

affects literally every visual effect in the game dramatically

the1andonlyskwex

It's certainly not ideal, but you could probably squash the dynamic range by turning the gamma way up in-game and lowering the brightness of your screen.

DarcyMardin

I absolutely hate those light flash bursts, wherever they are in the game. I also get migraines and they are a trigger. There’s one very early in one of the Prophet’s main story quests, but I’ve done the story on so many alts that at least I know when to shut my eyes, but that’s not true in some other areas of the game.

Greystag

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I'm truly sorry to hear about this issue. There should absolutely be an option to tone down these kinds of effects, in every game.

ESO already has color options to assist with colorblindedness. ZOS should take that commitment further and implement options to assist with light and flash sensitivity.

It's 2020 and the game industry has a massive reach. Nobody should have to literally suffer through headaches, nausea, blurry vision, seizures, etc - just to enjoy their favorite hobby.

I 100% agree with your statement. There should be resources focused on these things because even though they're a non-issue for some, for others they're a massive issue.

Darkenarlol wrote: »

Greystag wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

there is a feature in Warframe that allows you to control

visual effects intensivity from almost non-existent to rip your eyes levels

which is really nice to have alongside with color blind adapting system

Was it the energy colours? Because I remember changing the energy colours of a bunch of Frames to darker tones because of this. I love how much customisation WF offers. Wish ESO's system had the same depth.

ofc you can change the energy color to reduce brightness

but i'm talking specifically about visual effects slider in the settings menu that

affects literally every visual effect in the game dramatically

My bad, haven't played WF in around 3 years, but if that's an option I'm sure I used it at some point.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's certainly not ideal, but you could probably squash the dynamic range by turning the gamma way up in-game and lowering the brightness of your screen.

That could turn out to be a very neat trick. I'll 100% try it out next time I'm in DSA, thanks!

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I absolutely hate those light flash bursts, wherever they are in the game. I also get migraines and they are a trigger. There’s one very early in one of the Prophet’s main story quests, but I’ve done the story on so many alts that at least I know when to shut my eyes, but that’s not true in some other areas of the game.

Very sorry to hear you suffer from this too. I haven't done the main quest in ages but I recall flashes of light on things like portals and some Coldharbour scenes.

Greystag

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Could this be brought to some team's attention, please? I want our voices to be heard. These flashes of light have caused a headache that's been following me since the day I made the post. I, of course, don't fully blame the game, but it was the origin of it. Thank you.

Greystag

Good news, friends! Our thread has been seen by ZoS and they've taken it seriously. Chances are we'll be seeing some changes in regards to bright flashes in the future. Thank you all for the support and NirnStorm for helping me verify if ZoS had seen the thread. Check him out

Here's a list with the specific instances where this issue appears. I'll update it if more instances come to my mind. I provided links to videos where an example is portrayed. They're timestamped a couple of seconds early.

-Antiquity scrying, when opening or closing the augur
-Scroll of Glorious Battle and similar mechanics
-"Shadow Knight" Stage 7 DSA boss and possibly other "Templar" class bosses
-Templar Nova Ultimate Synergy
-AA final Boss Burn phase
-Some portals (usually they fade to black but sometimes they fade to white)

Thanks a lot again, everyone.