PvE'ers. please keep out of the main campaign Gray Host

nk125x

1. Most PvP guilds play there, keeps. outposts and towns are always fought over and you will have to fight
2. Other campaigns, you will have more of a chance to complete your quests, plus shorter queues
3. My guild has already decided to move to another campaign if the queues get to long. If you are a PvEer, you really want to keep the PvP guilds in one campaign.

SidraWillowsky

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.*

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

*EDIT I'm not talking about PvEers going in with the intent of doing some PvP even if they're mostly there to PvE. I'm talking about people who would rather not encounter players from enemy factions at all and just want to get the quests done.

cheemers

This is the truth. You may think you'll have safety in numbers in the busiest campaign, but your enemies there will be the ones who routinely farm the zergs. They will be able to pick you out of the pack without a problem. Get some PvP-compentent guildmates and go to a quieter campaign if you want to focus mostly on quests or ticket farming. If you genuinely want to come in for full on alliance war, then by all means come join the slaughterhouse

nk125x

My guild really don't like killing questers, and we try to avoid it but its hard to tell the difference between you and a hardcore solo player so you will most likely be targeted.

Arunei

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

DocFrost72

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

Because it's the neighborly thing to do. This server happens to be the *big*, focused pvp server. There will undoubtedly be a vast array of servers to choose from. If your experience would be the same in any of them, but you stand to worsen the experience of those in one server, what would be the kind thing to do?

oXI_Viper_IXo

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

That's like saying why not queue up to a vet DLC dungeon as a fake tank?

Can you? Absolutely. Should you? No, because it's inconsiderate.

AlnilamE

Well, I don't play on the CP campaign anyway, but what if I want to PvP instead of doing PvE quests?

Ackwalan

AlnilamE wrote: »

Well, I don't play on the CP campaign anyway, but what if I want to PvP instead of doing PvE quests?

If you are there for PvP, join in. If you are there for PvE, go to one of the unlocked servers.

peacenote

I see both sides to this.

This is actually a good tip for folks who don't know better. However given the forum's tendency to be laced with sarcasm, despite the fact that the topic says "please" it could still be taken with the tone of "get the **** out" instead of helpful advice for PvE'ers in Cyro.

Also, one valid reason I can think of for folks to want to be in the main campaign is status of the map. PvE'er or not, you're still bound by the rules of travel and if you're a certain faction trying to get a far away sky shard, and your PvP friends say, hey, we're owning the map right now, it makes sense to go to the main campaign as opposed to running forEVER only to maybe still be ganked by a PvP'er that didn't get the memo to step lightly around the PvE folks who are kind enough to avoid the main campaign...

kargen27

You went about it the wrong way. It's kind of human nature (well for a lot of us anyway) to want to do something when told we shouldn't. Should have went about this from a different angle. Instead of saying please keep out of the main campaign you should have offered friendly advice and suggest they can reach their goals quicker in one of the less populated campaigns. Then we think hey what a great idea.

Arunei

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

Because it's the neighborly thing to do. This server happens to be the *big*, focused pvp server. There will undoubtedly be a vast array of servers to choose from. If your experience would be the same in any of them, but you stand to worsen the experience of those in one server, what would be the kind thing to do?

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

That's like saying why not queue up to a vet DLC dungeon as a fake tank?

Can you? Absolutely. Should you? No, because it's inconsiderate.

It's not inconsiderate though, because there shouldn't be a divide between players like this. It shouldn't be PvPers have x or y campaign and everyone else get the others because ZOS has this event for ALL players of the game to take part in it. And since everyone there is able to be killed and you can still get your AP, how is it rude? How is it taking spots? It's not like you only get AP for killing dedicated PvPers and no one else.

Is it a better idea for people wanting to avoid as much actual PvP as possible to use the emptier campaigns? 100%. But it isn't rude for people coming in only to do their stuff to get tickets to be in the busier campaigns because no one has more right to that than anyone else, regardless of who you are.

Also no, people coming into the busier campaign even if they don't want to do actual PvP can't be compared to queuing for a vet dungeon as a fake tank. In that scenario you're literally lying about your role and potentially wasting three other peoples' time, since your performance or lack thereof can prevent the rest of the group from progressing and completing the content. People queuing to get into Cyro during MYM aren't trying to get a carry through content or holding people back with their lack of ability to do what they signed up to do. In fact, the people queuing to only do event stuff are going to spend less time in there than the people actually in there to PvP, so they won't be filling any slots in the campaign that long compared to a person who intends to spend hours taking Keeps or doing scroll runs or grabbing resources or whatever else they plan on doing.

Taleof2Cities

nk125x wrote: »

My guild really don't like killing questers, and we try to avoid it but its hard to tell the difference between you and a hardcore solo player so you will most likely be targeted.

It's a war zone ... PvErs should come with friends, a different build, or invisibility/sneak.

SshadowSscale

Could we maybe ask this for ravenwatch too since its the main no-cp campaign....

SpiderKnight

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

That's like saying why not queue up to a vet DLC dungeon as a fake tank?

Can you? Absolutely. Should you? No, because it's inconsiderate.

So you're saying I should gather large groups of PvE players to join Gray Host over the next couple weekends? See you there!

SidraWillowsky

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

It's not, but when you go in there to do PvE-style quests it likely means that someone who actually wants to PvP has to wait longer. If a campaign is pop-locked and it's the most popular campaign for legit PvPers, who go there if there are other campaigns not at full capacity? IMO it's the considerate thing to do when the wait times are already long. It doesn't matter much to me which campaign I'm going to if I'm just questing (I stick to CP campaigns but that's really the end of my preferences), so why go into the one where people actually want to PvP in the PvP zone?

SidraWillowsky

SpiderKnight wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

That's like saying why not queue up to a vet DLC dungeon as a fake tank?

Can you? Absolutely. Should you? No, because it's inconsiderate.

So you're saying I should gather large groups of PvE players to join Gray Host over the next couple weekends? See you there!

You know how PvEers (myself included) get upset during these events because other players can make it impossible to complete quests if they want it badly enough? You're kinda doing the same thing in a roundabout way if you actually do that- preventing other players from playing the game as they choose to.

An eye for an eye and all that jazz.

Arunei

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

It's not, but when you go in there to do PvE-style quests it likely means that someone who actually wants to PvP has to wait longer. If a campaign is pop-locked and it's the most popular campaign for legit PvPers, who go there if there are other campaigns not at full capacity? IMO it's the considerate thing to do when the wait times are already long. It doesn't matter much to me which campaign I'm going to if I'm just questing (I stick to CP campaigns but that's really the end of my preferences), so why go into the one where people actually want to PvP in the PvP zone?

Because people tend to forget ZOS does introduce several temporary campaigns specifically for MYM, and even the "less busy" ones can end up poplocked and require you to queue. People act like PvEers are pushing out PvPers with this event but it's not like it's a mass flood of 90% PvEers, and people wanting to PvP can't find a group because no one's there for actual PvP. The fact that several campaigns end up poplocked alone means there are PLENTY of people to group with.

Also, let's not forget people like myself. I'm a PvEer who almost never PvPs outside of MYM, but I don't do it just for tickets. I also do it for the double AP so I can use it to get certain chars their stuff like Vigor, and to earn AP to buy stuff like Motif chapters with. A lot of other PvEers do the same, so while there are a good number there only to get tickets and get out, a lot of us are actually staying and doing a bit of PvP to get AP and stuff, and we group up just as well as the people who PvP regularly.

SidraWillowsky

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

It's not, but when you go in there to do PvE-style quests it likely means that someone who actually wants to PvP has to wait longer. If a campaign is pop-locked and it's the most popular campaign for legit PvPers, who go there if there are other campaigns not at full capacity? IMO it's the considerate thing to do when the wait times are already long. It doesn't matter much to me which campaign I'm going to if I'm just questing (I stick to CP campaigns but that's really the end of my preferences), so why go into the one where people actually want to PvP in the PvP zone?

Because people tend to forget ZOS does introduce several temporary campaigns specifically for MYM, and even the "less busy" ones can end up poplocked and require you to queue. People act like PvEers are pushing out PvPers with this event but it's not like it's a mass flood of 90% PvEers, and people wanting to PvP can't find a group because no one's there for actual PvP. The fact that several campaigns end up poplocked alone means there are PLENTY of people to group with.

Also, let's not forget people like myself. I'm a PvEer who almost never PvPs outside of MYM, but I don't do it just for tickets. I also do it for the double AP so I can use it to get certain chars their stuff like Vigor, and to earn AP to buy stuff like Motif chapters with. A lot of other PvEers do the same, so while there are a good number there only to get tickets and get out, a lot of us are actually staying and doing a bit of PvP to get AP and stuff, and we group up just as well as the people who PvP regularly.

Oh yeah, if you are going into a campaign with the intention of PvPing at some point, I don't care where you go. I did not mean for my post to come off as me saying that PvEers in general shouldn't go to a campaign if they're interested in PvPing. Maybe that's the source of the frustration here. I'm referring only to people who want to get in and get their dailies done without having to PvP if possible. In that case I think it's generally the considerate thing to do to go to an emptier or event "overflow" campaign. And I think that people like that would generally avoid the pop-locked campaigns in general, but you never know.

Go hog wild if you're going into a campaign to fight people, be it during quests or not. I enjoy putting on my PvE-est of the PvE titles (hello Saviour of Morrowind) and killing the gankers or building campers in the towns. Or whatever. I shouldn't have said "legit PvPers", I really meant that more as "anyone queueing who is interested in PvPing in some form"

Arunei

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

It's not, but when you go in there to do PvE-style quests it likely means that someone who actually wants to PvP has to wait longer. If a campaign is pop-locked and it's the most popular campaign for legit PvPers, who go there if there are other campaigns not at full capacity? IMO it's the considerate thing to do when the wait times are already long. It doesn't matter much to me which campaign I'm going to if I'm just questing (I stick to CP campaigns but that's really the end of my preferences), so why go into the one where people actually want to PvP in the PvP zone?

Because people tend to forget ZOS does introduce several temporary campaigns specifically for MYM, and even the "less busy" ones can end up poplocked and require you to queue. People act like PvEers are pushing out PvPers with this event but it's not like it's a mass flood of 90% PvEers, and people wanting to PvP can't find a group because no one's there for actual PvP. The fact that several campaigns end up poplocked alone means there are PLENTY of people to group with.

Also, let's not forget people like myself. I'm a PvEer who almost never PvPs outside of MYM, but I don't do it just for tickets. I also do it for the double AP so I can use it to get certain chars their stuff like Vigor, and to earn AP to buy stuff like Motif chapters with. A lot of other PvEers do the same, so while there are a good number there only to get tickets and get out, a lot of us are actually staying and doing a bit of PvP to get AP and stuff, and we group up just as well as the people who PvP regularly.

Oh yeah, if you are going into a campaign with the intention of PvPing at some point, I don't care where you go. I did not mean for my post to come off as me saying that PvEers in general shouldn't go to a campaign if they're interested in PvPing. Maybe that's the source of the frustration here. I'm referring only to people who want to get in and get their dailies done without having to PvP if possible. In that case I think it's generally the considerate thing to do to go to an emptier or event "overflow" campaign. And I think that people like that would generally avoid the pop-locked campaigns in general, but you never know.

Go hog wild if you're going into a campaign to fight people, be it during quests or not. I enjoy putting on my PvE-est of the PvE titles (hello Saviour of Morrowind) and killing the gankers or building campers in the towns. Or whatever. I shouldn't have said "legit PvPers", I really meant that more as "anyone queueing who is interested in PvPing in some form"

I remember that a couple years ago most of the campaigns were poplocked, including the temp ones that were made, so it was hard to avoid the ones that were since it was mostly all of them haha. And the ones that weren't poplocked were really busy too. It was nuts, and honestly, we're all probably going to be suffering together whether we're just there for dailies or the whole shebang. What with how Cyro has been lately, I'm not holding my breath that MYM will go anywhere near smoothly this year.

xXMeowMeowXx

Hmmm, I cannot imagine they’ll be any worse then the zerglings and boosters whining, lol.🤣🤣🤣🤣

I play extreme small scale there and some 2 v X

It is an event, so maybe some PvErs will find that they enjoy PvP from the event

Everyone is welcome

SidraWillowsky

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

It's not, but when you go in there to do PvE-style quests it likely means that someone who actually wants to PvP has to wait longer. If a campaign is pop-locked and it's the most popular campaign for legit PvPers, who go there if there are other campaigns not at full capacity? IMO it's the considerate thing to do when the wait times are already long. It doesn't matter much to me which campaign I'm going to if I'm just questing (I stick to CP campaigns but that's really the end of my preferences), so why go into the one where people actually want to PvP in the PvP zone?

Because people tend to forget ZOS does introduce several temporary campaigns specifically for MYM, and even the "less busy" ones can end up poplocked and require you to queue. People act like PvEers are pushing out PvPers with this event but it's not like it's a mass flood of 90% PvEers, and people wanting to PvP can't find a group because no one's there for actual PvP. The fact that several campaigns end up poplocked alone means there are PLENTY of people to group with.

Also, let's not forget people like myself. I'm a PvEer who almost never PvPs outside of MYM, but I don't do it just for tickets. I also do it for the double AP so I can use it to get certain chars their stuff like Vigor, and to earn AP to buy stuff like Motif chapters with. A lot of other PvEers do the same, so while there are a good number there only to get tickets and get out, a lot of us are actually staying and doing a bit of PvP to get AP and stuff, and we group up just as well as the people who PvP regularly.

Oh yeah, if you are going into a campaign with the intention of PvPing at some point, I don't care where you go. I did not mean for my post to come off as me saying that PvEers in general shouldn't go to a campaign if they're interested in PvPing. Maybe that's the source of the frustration here. I'm referring only to people who want to get in and get their dailies done without having to PvP if possible. In that case I think it's generally the considerate thing to do to go to an emptier or event "overflow" campaign. And I think that people like that would generally avoid the pop-locked campaigns in general, but you never know.

Go hog wild if you're going into a campaign to fight people, be it during quests or not. I enjoy putting on my PvE-est of the PvE titles (hello Saviour of Morrowind) and killing the gankers or building campers in the towns. Or whatever. I shouldn't have said "legit PvPers", I really meant that more as "anyone queueing who is interested in PvPing in some form"

I remember that a couple years ago most of the campaigns were poplocked, including the temp ones that were made, so it was hard to avoid the ones that were since it was mostly all of them haha. And the ones that weren't poplocked were really busy too. It was nuts, and honestly, we're all probably going to be suffering together whether we're just there for dailies or the whole shebang. What with how Cyro has been lately, I'm not holding my breath that MYM will go anywhere near smoothly this year.

PvZOS this year...

Hapexamendios

I'm going to go into the main campaign and putter around the main gate for a few hours.

M_Volsung

The part of this I find funny is the complaints about PvE players clogging up "your" server, but when they suggest a PvE only instance of Cyro you all get your panties in a wad...

Make up your minds.

mocap

Maybe they farming Vigor or War horn or can be just a new players. And dear PvP Grand "shoot ballista from the wall" Overlords, pls do not lie to yourselfs - you was like them in the past too.

My vocabulary isn't that great, but in English it's called "hazing" (military definition, extremely rude welcome of newcomers from olds).

Drdeath20

In quiet campaigns opponents in there have nothing else to do but farm pve players in town.

Nord_Raseri

SpiderKnight wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.

I'm 90% a PvE-er and unless I want to actually PvP, I go into one of the other campaigns.

I'm sorry but how is it rude to...play the game the way the devs intend? Cyro isn't strictly reserved for PvPers only, and while there are indeed numerous campaigns, we all paid for the game and no one has more right to any one of them than anyone else does.

That's like saying why not queue up to a vet DLC dungeon as a fake tank?

Can you? Absolutely. Should you? No, because it's inconsiderate.

So you're saying I should gather large groups of PvE players to join Gray Host over the next couple weekends? See you there!

That's your prerogative, but don't be surprised if your group gets obliterated by two people.

Ekzorka

Unbind Event Tickets from PvP and all problems will be solved! It's so simple...

Mayrael

Ok I love PvP thats why I will give you all a chance to survive it with less stress:

Required sets (yes for magicka to):

Night silence (Crafted)

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Ignore Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.

Jailbreaker (Banished Cells)

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(5 items) Gain Minor Expedition at all times, increasing your Movement Speed by 10%.

Ring of Wild Hunt (Mythic - no PvP required to get it)

(1 item) Increases your movement speed by 15% while in combat. Increases your movement speed by 45% while out of combat.

1 float spot.

Required items:
Detection potion.

Required skills:
Race against time (Psijic guild) - Accelerate morph.


How to use it?
Enter sneak and just travel through Cyrodiil and IC with max speed available (you can cast Race Against Time in stealth without breaking it), even when you will get exposed you have pretty big chance to escape because you know even on mount it will be almost impossible to get you.

Why detection potions?
While traveling in stealth like a Sonic is quite safe, there are some choke points like quest nodes where gankers can wait in sneak etc. Whenever you reach your destination, use detection potion (its the only available way of finding hidden targets without exposing your self first). You have 15s to check out the area without exiting stealth are there any hidden enemies.

Bonus
Having max speed movement allows you to traverse through Cyrodiil and IC faster than on tanky builds, also you can place all the rest into damage (skills, mundus, enchants) so you won't be completly gimped vs mobs. Max speed is much more effective way of escaping zergs than being tanky.

Edit:
For max kek you can became vampire which will half the time needed to enter stealth at stage 1 and Night Silence set can be completly replaced by set of your choice.

At stage 4 you will have cloak almost like NB which can be broken only by someone who actievely counters it, meaning you can go through enemies without worrying about being detected.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Plus it's just kind of rude to take up a spot in the main PvP campaign when you're essentially just going in there to do PvE stuff.*

Well, that's on Zeni for gating PvE content and completion goals behind PvP.

All The Best

Ferrym4n

As the main campaign, Greymoor will be busy. Kill your enemies, simple, it's PVP. Or don't, but some players will farm you, others might not. It's PVP.

Yes it's frustrating to queue for anything between 1min to an hour for the place where you play regularly without issue, that's MM.

Let's see how the game performs, maybe it's a chance to highlight issues that usually divide PVP and PVE players.