Maelstorm Arena balances for Stamina Sorcerers.

cremefatale

First of all before I begin this rant and the fact that I'm going to put out, I am in no way perfect at this game, and I do not want to hear people say "oh ive finished this in ONE go on VETERAN, oh gee look at me, im a pro at a game" like stop right there, I'll immediately block you and treat you like everyday trolls.

So to start this off, I am a redguard, stamina sorcerer dps, i got the nightmother set on which is pretty good, i got 413 champion points, and I've tried the maelstorm arena atleast 23 times (yes I've counted.) I've checked Maelstorm guides on youtube, and none of them have been helpful.
I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left.

Something about this is very suspicious, when I can see every other dps classes out there finish the NORMAL one without so much as a hassle, whilst I am struggling for my dear life, using every sigil around, using poisons, wasting time and resources to get that one Maelstorm bow that I may or may not get, then it just hits me...

Stamina Sorcerers dps are not balanced correctly to solo:ing arenas such as Maelstorm,
now I'm sure there's going to be atleast SOMEONE thats gonna come in here and say "Oh i did it, and i didnt die, yadda yadda" I'm gonna call *** on that, you died several times, you had to use every poison potion, and health potions in the book, you probably had a pet, you probably had to cheese it and rip ur HAIR out to finish it, which again, should not be the case.
Now someone else is going to say "oh but its suppose to be challenging"
Challenging, i can agree with, but Maelstorm Arena is UNBALANCED to us stamina sorcerers, hands down.

I really expect the eso devs to buff stamina sorcerers, or nerf Maelstorm arena, cause I cannot progress in this game to get the gear I really need/want.
Time to wake up eso devs, time to wake up.

butterrum222

That *** will one shot you because she empowers over time. You have to uncover all the obelisks in order to weaken her. I love stam sorc it’s the first toon I finished vma on. It took a week but it happened

Freakin_Hytte

Are you talking about when she spawns all those tiny spiders? If that's the case, play the mechanics and stand close to one off the obelisks that gives the light and those spiders won't be able to touch you.

Karmanorway

Just delete the Stamsorc and make a necro or warden, they will carry u all the way, thank me later 😉

Ragged_Claw

I don't think it's necessarily unbalanced for Stamsorc, it's just kind of mean. And it only gets worse. Everyone who says 'it's easy, I do it naked with one skill on my bar' etc, forget that they died over and over at the start too. All I can say really is that if you go back in when you've hit CP cap (or even with another 100 or so points), you are going to see an amazing difference. You might even be back here saying its too easy.

Aliyavana

Stam sorcs are one of the best classes for vma lol. your first time in vma is always the hardest. Do you have necessities like Crit Surge and a meta build on? If its too much for you, you always have the benefit of gaining more CP before you try again as you will be able to gain way more CP than I was able to apply when the cap was lower.

As for your spider problem, if you are unable to burn the boss before the spiders that eat you up come out you need to bring them to the light for them too go away.

---

"I can see every other dps classes out there finish the NORMAL one without so much as a hassle, whilst I am struggling for my dear life, using every sigil around, using poisons, wasting time and resources to get that one Maelstorm bow that I may or may not get, then it just hits me..."
From this line it seems like you are not struggling with veteran, but with normal? Something is clearly wrong with your build or playstyle.

Haquor

Its definately mechanics. You will get there. It is not the class. It is mechanics.

Stamsorc is my first flawless at under 300cp. I know you dont want to hear that but there is nothing wrong with the class for vMa. Once you understand the mechanics youll be fine.

Keep surge and hurricane up, drop hail and even when youre ccd youll be healing passively. Vigor or dark deal and a dodge roll in a pinch for a burst.

If you keep those buffs up and continue to damage things, use sigils and do the correct mechanics you will get there.

Vicious Ophidian is really easy to get a 5 piece of and imho is mandatory in vMa for stam. Get that set to go with your other 5 piece before you continue in vma and watch your stamina regen, damage and speed greatly improve. It drops in all the easy base game trials in craglorn. AA, HRC, SO.

ImmortalCX

Haquor wrote: »

Vicious Ophidian is really easy to get a 5 piece of and imho is mandatory in vMa for stam. Get that set to go with your other 5 piece before you continue in vma and watch your stamina regen, damage and speed greatly improve. It drops in all the easy base game trials in craglorn. AA, HRC, SO.

Sustain is the big problem with my stamblade. I have a heavy attack build which is promising.

Any advice for stamblade who haven't been able to farm a trial set to do vma?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Stamina Sorc is arguably the easiest of the stamina classes to run VMA with. I am happy to make some suggestions to your build, but you didnt give a lot of info.

One obvious thing, since caltrops gives major fracture, dont run NM. Everything that needs fracture should be hit by your caltrops. Vicious Ophidian is the gold standard for VMA. What you pair it with doesnt matter as much as you think TBH. I like Warband in the arena on stamina. Briarheart is also a strong option because of the heals.

Stam sorc survives by a combo of Crit Surge and Hurricane. As long as both are going, you are healing. Ground dots don't hurt either. Vigor before Oh crap moments, not after, if possible.

For damage, you should at a minimum run Hurricane, Trap (can be dropped if you run Warband), Hail, Poison Injection, Caltrops, Ballista (Bow ulti, huge boss damage), potentially rending slashes, and a spammable. Lots of options here, just chose the one you like best. If you learn to probably buff and DOT portals, you can nuke everything that needs nuked in the arena.

6 is honestly an interesting place to get stuck, but it sounds like you might be struggling with kill priority on the last boss. You need to take out the adds if you dont have the DPS to nuke it. That said, a stam sorc can certainly nuke it. If you are struggling with stage mechanics, you need to keep the pillars mostly uncovered so you have a safe spot when all the spiders spawn.

If you are struggling for a clear, sounds like you want the bow, the arena is noticeably easier on a magic class. You might do better to get a feel for it on an easier class. Once you learn it, you wont have any trouble with stam sorc.

idk

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Are you talking about when she spawns all those tiny spiders? If that's the case, play the mechanics and stand close to one off the obelisks that gives the light and those spiders won't be able to touch you.

Not sure if OP is talking about the spiders that spawn in all rounds of that arena or the small version of the boss that spawns. Either way, you are correct, OP needs to play to the mechanics. I expect you are correct it is the group of small spiders though.

If the group of small spiders, go to the lit obelisk When another obelisk lights up move to that one. If it is the miniature Daedra spider like the boss kill it, though I usually ignore it. If somehow I mess up getting all 5 obelisks uncovered at the start of the boss round I only burn a big add. Otherwise, I just burn boss and avoid damage.

Stx

Stamina sorcs are very strong, so I am going to say that you might need a better build and strategy.

I run VMA on my stamsorc and I use briarheart, tzogvins, and no monster set (I use torc of tonal constancy). I dont even slot vigor. I keep myself alive with critical surge healing, briarheart healing, and damage shields from the brawler skill in two handed line. If you are trying to use dual wield maybe switch to two hand. I am only 680 CP but when I first cleared VMA I was around 450.

Stx

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Haquor wrote: »

Vicious Ophidian is really easy to get a 5 piece of and imho is mandatory in vMa for stam. Get that set to go with your other 5 piece before you continue in vma and watch your stamina regen, damage and speed greatly improve. It drops in all the easy base game trials in craglorn. AA, HRC, SO.

Sustain is the big problem with my stamblade. I have a heavy attack build which is promising.

Any advice for stamblade who haven't been able to farm a trial set to do vma?

Honestly stamblades are pretty strong for soloing because the class kit includes minor maim, 10% mitigation, and minor resolve+major evasion. In my opinion their biggest weakness is a lack of Aoe.

For sets if you cant get a trial set, I would recommend briarheart, tzogvins (so you dont need to slot trap for minor force), night mothers gaze (so you dont need to use caltrops or reapers mark), or essence thief. Because nightblade has such a defensive kit, you can run a damage monster set to push better dps, or a sustain set so you can use better food or run all weapon damage glyphs.

Olupajmibanan

Well, I find stamina sorcerer the easiest stamina for vMA. Having to pro-actively use vigor can be annoying and make things harder but on my stamina sorcerer I go without Vigor even having slotted.

Critical Surge, Hurricane and Whirling Blades are all what I need for easy and fast vMA clear Of course provided you got Vicious Ophidian, this set makes life easier a ton.

colossalvoids

Well seems like it's not a post about getting better but a "rant and a fact", so I'll skip advice part as it certainly would be ignored (there were plenty already) and just say that it's completely nonsense, stamsorc is hands down best spec for new stam player clears for years having hurricane+surge and ability to use only trash pots, not even talking about possible brawler shields and newly introduced pet on top of that.

It won't be any easier on other stamina classes.

zvavi

I don't have much experience with stamina characters but stamina sorc is definitely more geared for vMA than stamblade for example (my only 2 stamina characters). As some people said using 2h with brawler can be a great defensive use.

My only recommendation would probably be take it slower, focus adds more aggressively, clean all 5 obelisks to stun her for 10-15 seconds (don't remember how long) and cleanse her enrage.

It is no shame to use damage over time effects and then heavy attack for resources.

thorwyn

Arena 6 boss can be tricky if you're lacking good burst DPS. Kill the web spinners as well as the small spider daedras. If you manage to unveil all pilars and the boss somehow does not die during the stun phase, make sure to unveil another pilar as fast as possible to avoid getting swarmed by those red spiders. You need at least two lit pilars during that phase.
Generally: use the sigils! Especially the hast sigil comes in very handy during the boss fight, because it negates the snare of the spider daedras.

FierceSam

My first Maelstrom clear was on a Redguard stam sorc . 2 handler and bow. If you’re looking for build tips, Alcast, Skinny Cheeks or Xynode have lots of info. Alcast and Xynode have good arena guides too.

I found the ice arena and the [snip] Vault of [snip] Umbrage way more frustrating than spiderworld... but I guess everyone has their own personal hell in Maelstrom.

Good luck and have fun.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Karmanorway wrote: »

Just delete the Stamsorc and make a necro or warden, they will carry u all the way, thank me later 😉

Maybe read other threads of his where he called them Carrywardens and Carrycros or some nonsense. He made an entire thread about how basically every class will carry you other than the one he likes, StamSorc.

As someone who has done VMA on all the classes in question many times, stam sorc is certainly the easiest of those three.

Wardens can be pretty tanky, so they arent a bad option. Maybe the second easiest in the arena IMO (this is of course subjective). Necros have the potential to be really good, but man are their skills buggy. Blastbones takes to long on anything not a boss, and sometimes it just sits there. I had one make a youturn on the stage seven boss last week and nuke my shield guy.

If I was going to put them in order of ease (goal being for an easy, potentially flawless clear) for stamina: Sorc>Warden=Templar>Necro>NB>DK. The order changes a fair amount if speed is your goal (most notably, NB shoots way up the list).

deLioncourt

cremefatale wrote: »

First of all before I begin this rant and the fact that I'm going to put out, I am in no way perfect at this game, and I do not want to hear people say "oh ive finished this in ONE go on VETERAN, oh gee look at me, im a pro at a game" like stop right there, I'll immediately block you and treat you like everyday trolls.

So to start this off, I am a redguard, stamina sorcerer dps, i got the nightmother set on which is pretty good, i got 413 champion points, and I've tried the maelstorm arena atleast 23 times (yes I've counted.) I've checked Maelstorm guides on youtube, and none of them have been helpful.
I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left.

Something about this is very suspicious, when I can see every other dps classes out there finish the NORMAL one without so much as a hassle, whilst I am struggling for my dear life, using every sigil around, using poisons, wasting time and resources to get that one Maelstorm bow that I may or may not get, then it just hits me...

Stamina Sorcerers dps are not balanced correctly to solo:ing arenas such as Maelstorm,
now I'm sure there's going to be atleast SOMEONE thats gonna come in here and say "Oh i did it, and i didnt die, yadda yadda" I'm gonna call *** on that, you died several times, you had to use every poison potion, and health potions in the book, you probably had a pet, you probably had to cheese it and rip ur HAIR out to finish it, which again, should not be the case.
Now someone else is going to say "oh but its suppose to be challenging"
Challenging, i can agree with, but Maelstorm Arena is UNBALANCED to us stamina sorcerers, hands down.

I really expect the eso devs to buff stamina sorcerers, or nerf Maelstorm arena, cause I cannot progress in this game to get the gear I really need/want.
Time to wake up eso devs, time to wake up.

"I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left."

Do the mechanics right and you won't have an issue. Anybody who ignores mechanics in vMaelstrom is going to die. The difference between you and them is you're ignoring mechanics. Other people aren't because they know you cant.

Gundug

Is the OP even speaking of veteran? Their wording implied to me that they were playing it on normal. Either way, as people have stated, stamina sorcerer is an excellent class for solo play. Having a ludicrously strong self heal that works as you cause damage, and a damage mitigation skill that causes AOE damage at the same time is incredibly powerful. Learn your class, and how to play the arena before calling for rebalance.

Everyone’s experience in the game is different. One person classified the stamina dragonknight as the lowest on their list, where that is the one class I have had an easy flawless no-sigil vet clear. And frankly, with even a half-decent setup that has sufficient self healing, damage mitigation and sustain, of any class, normal Maelstrom is trivial.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

deLioncourt wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

First of all before I begin this rant and the fact that I'm going to put out, I am in no way perfect at this game, and I do not want to hear people say "oh ive finished this in ONE go on VETERAN, oh gee look at me, im a pro at a game" like stop right there, I'll immediately block you and treat you like everyday trolls.

So to start this off, I am a redguard, stamina sorcerer dps, i got the nightmother set on which is pretty good, i got 413 champion points, and I've tried the maelstorm arena atleast 23 times (yes I've counted.) I've checked Maelstorm guides on youtube, and none of them have been helpful.
I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left.

Something about this is very suspicious, when I can see every other dps classes out there finish the NORMAL one without so much as a hassle, whilst I am struggling for my dear life, using every sigil around, using poisons, wasting time and resources to get that one Maelstorm bow that I may or may not get, then it just hits me...

Stamina Sorcerers dps are not balanced correctly to solo:ing arenas such as Maelstorm,
now I'm sure there's going to be atleast SOMEONE thats gonna come in here and say "Oh i did it, and i didnt die, yadda yadda" I'm gonna call *** on that, you died several times, you had to use every poison potion, and health potions in the book, you probably had a pet, you probably had to cheese it and rip ur HAIR out to finish it, which again, should not be the case.
Now someone else is going to say "oh but its suppose to be challenging"
Challenging, i can agree with, but Maelstorm Arena is UNBALANCED to us stamina sorcerers, hands down.

I really expect the eso devs to buff stamina sorcerers, or nerf Maelstorm arena, cause I cannot progress in this game to get the gear I really need/want.
Time to wake up eso devs, time to wake up.

"I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left."

Do the mechanics right and you won't have an issue. Anybody who ignores mechanics in vMaelstrom is going to die. The difference between you and them is you're ignoring mechanics. Other people aren't because they know you cant.

Mechanics can be skipped with overwhelming DPS, but that is different than ignoring them of course. For example, on the spider boss, once she spawns, I nuke. I dont kill anything else unless it spawns in my AOE, and I don't even bother to stun anymore. Now of course, that wont work for everyone.

The reality is, all stages have a mechanic that you cant flat out ignore, but you can typically ignore briefly for a burn. All but the Ice boss (stage 5) are essentially nukable where they spawn (stage 9 boss takes a well time explosion, stage 8 takes killing crystals first).

Bosses:
Stage 1: Stack and burn.
Stage 2: Tricky, but three quick bursts gets it done.
Stage 3: stack and burn ( dont even let her touch land)
Stage 4: moving stack and burn (can easily be killed before it stops).
Stage 5: you need to at least let him hop one island, but you can nuke on the second (this is the riskiest nuke strat).
Stage 6: Stack and burn
Stage 7: stack and burn (can be nuked before shield phase)
Stage 8: Stack and burn on third crystal
Stage 9: Burn, crystals, burn, or straight burn if you know how to use the spectral explosion.

Stage Mechanics:
1. Floating Ground AOE, just dont stand in it.
2. Spinning blades, use the levers if you want, just dont stand in them.
3. Stranglers will pull you into water, which can get nasty. Spawn kill them, doesnt take much.
4. Spheres that get empowered, kill them before they get to the center. One poison injection with a LA should do it.
5. Trolls, kill them before the blow up islands LA>PI and one ground dot will do it.
6. Spiders and pillars (I recommend keeping 3-4 uncovered, but not bothering to stun unless last boss).
7. Poison Mushrooms. Use the pools if you get hit, but try not to. If they spawn in a bad spot, run through them to trigger them (you have time to get out without getting posined). Spawn kill the summoner.
8. Flame spinners (interupt) and crystals before boss rounds.
9. Golden Ghosts, just dont let the bad guys get them, and summenors, dont let them channel too long.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Gundug wrote: »

Is the OP even speaking of veteran? Their wording implied to me that they were playing it on normal. Either way, as people have stated, stamina sorcerer is an excellent class for solo play. Having a ludicrously strong self heal that works as you cause damage, and a damage mitigation skill that causes AOE damage at the same time is incredibly powerful. Learn your class, and how to play the arena before calling for rebalance.

Everyone’s experience in the game is different. One person classified the stamina dragonknight as the lowest on their list, where that is the one class I have had an easy flawless no-sigil vet clear. And frankly, with even a half-decent setup that has sufficient self healing, damage mitigation and sustain, of any class, normal Maelstrom is trivial.

@Gundug
Ha, I knew someone would say that when i posted my list. Haha. It is certainly subjective. Stam DK has never been my cup of tea. Ironically, I love mDK so go figure. The reality is, arena knowledge is way more important than class. Once you clear it a few times, you can run on any class if you have a basic handle on it. Most stam classes use 60-70% of the same skills anyways.

Heelie

Stamina sorcerer is not bad at all, you have tonnes of healing from Crit Surge. as for not being able to do any damage or running out of stamina,

Make sure your gear is legendary "Gold"
Make sure you are using a food buff, health + stam
Make sure you have legendary stamina enchants on all gear

Make sure your bars are uptimized for solo content, same goes for CP.

for the most part you can clear normal maelstrom without much optimization. "you can do it naked"

I think asking for content to change to the player instead of the player changing for the content is a really bad idea.

NocturnalSonata

correct gear, correct skills, and if you are not already - Use surge, its very powerful... The rest is just down to mechanics and kill order priorities. Not sure if you talking about normal or vet. But in vMA the lower your dps, the more attention you have to pay to mechanics and prioritizing kills.

As far as your claim about stamsorc not being balanced... well, that is very subjective, so if stamsorc does not work for you try something else. As far as it being actually balanced... I dont see a single issue with stamsorc vMA tbh, if anything i would consider it quite newbie friendly, as surge + vigor is very very strong.

The first time i did vMA was harsh, now its easy, tiresome, but easy.

OBJnoob

Everything everybody said is right. And you know that because everybody pretty much said the same thing. Here's one thing nobody said that OP probably wanted to hear...

I friggin hate vMA dude. I've only ever beaten it twice, got weapons that weren't even useful, and 110% wanted to pull my hair out. Now that there are perfected versions of the weapons I guess I need to try again -grumble-

I'll be using a stamsorc to do it. Cuz that's the only way I did it before. I'm CP 810. Still struggle. My excuse? I PVP. Don't always have good gear for vMA. Don't have great knowledge and experience either perhaps. And frankly it's just really, really hard.

Now... lets use a dumb comparison because I just love dumb comparisons... if a professional soccer player balances the ball on top of his foot and you say "how do you do that?" and he says "it's easy"-- he isn't lying. And if you say it's hard you aren't lying either. And you'll perhaps never be good enough to go pro. But you WILL balance that ball on your foot. And you WILL beat vMA.

But you're going to have to do it by following ALL of these people's advice. Cuz that's how I did it. There are ways to play with/around the mechanics that make it so much easier it's almost like cheating. Watch a youtube video about it. Get some ice cream. Sit down at your PC or console with the intention of "I'm going to learn a couple of stages today and if I get mad I'm going to take a break. And if I die I'm going to check my recap and think about if there was anything I could do about it. And I'm going to watch the stage ? portion of the video again."

Don't be like "I'm going to sit here for 8 hours no matter what I'm not getting up until this is done." That's the kind of determination that withers.

morrowjen

deLioncourt wrote: »

cremefatale wrote: »

First of all before I begin this rant and the fact that I'm going to put out, I am in no way perfect at this game, and I do not want to hear people say "oh ive finished this in ONE go on VETERAN, oh gee look at me, im a pro at a game" like stop right there, I'll immediately block you and treat you like everyday trolls.

So to start this off, I am a redguard, stamina sorcerer dps, i got the nightmother set on which is pretty good, i got 413 champion points, and I've tried the maelstorm arena atleast 23 times (yes I've counted.) I've checked Maelstorm guides on youtube, and none of them have been helpful.
I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left.

Something about this is very suspicious, when I can see every other dps classes out there finish the NORMAL one without so much as a hassle, whilst I am struggling for my dear life, using every sigil around, using poisons, wasting time and resources to get that one Maelstorm bow that I may or may not get, then it just hits me...

Stamina Sorcerers dps are not balanced correctly to solo:ing arenas such as Maelstorm,
now I'm sure there's going to be atleast SOMEONE thats gonna come in here and say "Oh i did it, and i didnt die, yadda yadda" I'm gonna call *** on that, you died several times, you had to use every poison potion, and health potions in the book, you probably had a pet, you probably had to cheese it and rip ur HAIR out to finish it, which again, should not be the case.
Now someone else is going to say "oh but its suppose to be challenging"
Challenging, i can agree with, but Maelstorm Arena is UNBALANCED to us stamina sorcerers, hands down.

I really expect the eso devs to buff stamina sorcerers, or nerf Maelstorm arena, cause I cannot progress in this game to get the gear I really need/want.
Time to wake up eso devs, time to wake up.

"I usually get stuck at the spider daedra part where the boss and the spiders just melts my health down, even though I vigor myself until I have NO stamina left."

Do the mechanics right and you won't have an issue. Anybody who ignores mechanics in vMaelstrom is going to die. The difference between you and them is you're ignoring mechanics. Other people aren't because they know you cant.

^^This. I got stuck at the Argonian behemoth and had to keep telling myself over and over "patience, patience, you can't just burn him, play the mechanic," until it was on auto-loop in my head. It took a while because I'm so used to burning bosses down but eventually I developed the patience to just play the mech. For a lot of damage dealers, patience is the key to maelstrom. We're so used to being able to skip mechanics but maelstrom simply will not allow you to do that and many times will straight up punish you if you try to burn too fast.

OP keep going. I thought I'd never get through vMA but once I did I went right back the next day on a lark to see how I'd do. I figured it would be a struggle and I'd never see vMA again but it was soooooo much easier and I cleared in one go. All those deaths, screaming fits, and tears, wind up teaching you the arena. Everyone goes through it - doesn't matter the class. Those "easy builds" are only easy for people who have already learned the mechanics. Sure, some things are easier but when you go in there the first time with one and you're still going to have the same issues as non-easy builds.

Darkenarlol

stamsorc is one of the easiest and most beginner friendly spec for vma

if you are not good enough it is not a reason to "nerf vma"


thank zos for making every peasant can have previously vma exlusive weapons from normal now

which can be done with level 3 naked character...enjoy

Danksta

Karmanorway wrote: »

Just delete the Stamsorc and make a necro or warden, they will carry u all the way, thank me later 😉

What do you mean? Stam sorc is easy in vma, don't even need vigor.

MyKillv2.0

Darkenarlol wrote: »

stamsorc is one of the easiest and most beginner friendly spec for vma

if you are not good enough it is not a reason to "nerf vma"


thank zos for making every peasant can have previously vma exlusive weapons from normal now

which can be done with level 3 naked character...enjoy

@Darkenarlol Do you have proof? I would like to see it actually. The comedy would be funny. I am hoping you do actually have a link to a video that proves this can be done.

Darkenarlol

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

@Darkenarlol Do you have proof? I would like to see it actually. The comedy would be funny. I am hoping you do actually have a link to a video that proves this can be done.

well...i'm just unsing nma to level fresh toons 3>>>10+ for years now

ofc you can go "video or BS" but i'm too lazy to make a video just to please you sorry

fierackas

Not sure why people are talking about vMA, he said he is struggling with normal. On normal spider round just make sure you are standing in the golden light if you are having trouble.