How common are meta builds in PvP?

Vietfox

I usually run off meta builds and i would like to know if i really handicap myself that much against the average build.
Poll is anonymous btw.

Taleof2Cities

I don't think everyone agrees what the meta is in PvP ... PvE maybe.

Vietfox

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think everyone agrees what the meta is in PvP ... PvE maybe.

the average meta build most people knew about, like nma+fury and stuff.

idk

Meta in PvP is more what the streamers use so in PvP it is what is popular. There are a lot of different builds that work very well and it really depends on one's playstyle.

Vietfox

idk wrote: »

Meta in PvP is more what the streamers use so in PvP it is what is popular. There are a lot of different builds that work very well and it really depends on one's playstyle.

Yeah i completely agree with that, i was just talking about the kind of meta builds which are usually shared and taken as "that's the way to go".

Vevvev

As long as your build can defeat the other player it's probably a good build. There are so many variables to consider in PVP I don't even think there is a meta. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't traits and strategies that work better than others. Like for instance ground based AOEs are not very popular due to how easy it is to get out of them unless used in choke points, defile debuffs are absolutely devastating, and the impenetrable armor trait is best in slot for survivability.

The PVP meta also changes in heavy lag situations where certain abilities and sets work better than others. Like for example the Spell Strategist set requires a light attack to proc, but sometimes you won't be able to get off reliable light attacks in lag.

Kalik_Gold

Off - Meta here.. I do watch the videos. I do what I can with what I have, and what I can craft easily get/afford.

Also try to make a theme, and work around it.

.

geonsocal

with 17 pvp toons I've learned to use mostly basic stuff like spinners, spriggans, seventh, troll king, velidreth, new moon acolyte and so on...

however, I also like having some role playing type builds that includes sets like unfathomable darkness, maw of the infernal, thunderbug, netch's touch, silks of the sun and so on...

I mean, it's great to win a lot, but, at the end of day, particularly for the folks whom have been in cyrodiil for years - it's about having fun...

not a lot of fun (at least for myself) in playing the same type of "meta" builds over and over again...

plus, to be honest - I've taken a break from farming sets out of dungeons the last couple of years...

I'd just rather spend my time fighting...

Vietfox

Vevvev wrote: »

As long as your build can defeat the other player it's probably a good build. There are so many variables to consider in PVP

Yeah, i still remember how i managed to do surprisingly well with noble duelist on my magblade back in 2017 with the old evasion buff.

Vietfox

geonsocal wrote: »

I mean, it's great to win a lot, but, at the end of day, particularly for the folks whom have been in cyrodiil for years - it's about having fun...

yeah, it's great to win, but even better when you do it while running "trash" sets

ninjaguyman

I play magblade so im always off meta

tsaescishoeshiner

The "Meta" in PvP is usually more general — like heavy armor, a certain monster set, damage shields. There's no Alcast-equivalent for PvP, so I think far fewer people know what the PvP meta is. People also guard their builds more to keep their advantage. Personally, I've never known lol what the PvP meta is. Or does Potentates sword & shield count? Is that meta?

Vietfox

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Personally, I've never known lol what the PvP meta is. Or does Potentates sword & shield count? Is that meta?

Yes it does in certain builds. Also i'm one of those guys who doesn't want to share their builds xD

tsaescishoeshiner

Vietfox wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Personally, I've never known lol what the PvP meta is. Or does Potentates sword & shield count? Is that meta?

Yes it does in certain builds. Also i'm one of those guys who doesn't want to share their builds xD

Right, exactly! Like it's "meta" in some builds, but even the same class can use highly different builds. It's much less standard.

Like this patch, all I've noticed is a LOT of glass cannon builds, and no healers. Highest healing on other teams in battlegrounds is usually like ~11k, and mine is personally around 60k (I'm not a full healer, just use resto staff for some group heals).

Everyone also feels rocket-fast, so maybe I'm not the only one using Ring of the Wild Hunt, but even with steed stone, major expedition, and the Concealed Weapon +25% movement speed, it's hard to catch some people

JayKwellen

I don't really think there is a "hard" meta for pvp. There's so much variability based on individuals playstyle that I think it's really just gonna depend on the person.

Other than the gear, which I guess is more uniform with constantly popular sets (fury, new moon, sprigg/spinners, necropotence, etc), pvp builds are more about having access to things you need than individual skills.

In pvp you generally need a burst heal (unless you're a magblade like me, in which case rip), a HoT, a mobility skill, a CC, brutality/sorcery, a spammable, a burst ability, a source of resolve, and possibly fracture/breach. How you get those things is up to you, and based on the class/playstyle the importance of these things will change too.

Some people prefer to use mobility skills so they'll slot RAT/Shuffle, others would rather have another skill there so they use immovables instead. Some don't have in class sources of major sorcery so they use spell power pots instead of degen. It just depends.

Then you get some things that end up meta simply because there's no good options. I for example have a StamDK and a new stamden, and I use dizzy, like everybody else but Templars. I don't like dizzy. I hate it. I'd much prefer to use anything, literally anything, else. I can't though, because the crap rock is trash in pvp, and the birds feel weird to use, are easily dodged by anyone who knows what they're doing, have a stupid bleed proc condition, and have a tool tip of 10k vs. 13.5k for dizzy. So dizzy it is.

Other than that though my builds are "meta-ish". On my stamden I use the same dps abilities as everyone, but I also use immovables instead of shuffle. I use swarm, which isn't super popular, simply because I like the boost it gives to my burst. I don't use rally, but I use spores because I usually play with my partner and like having the option to heal him. I also use arctic blast because I like having a second heal not tied to stamina and the stun.

So kinda meta, kinda not. It all just depends on what you like, but so long as it checks most of the boxes I honestly don't think the specifics matter all that much.

Kadoin

PvP balance this patch is so skewed that you either play the meta or die trying to fight against it.

It's really a meme.

Worst balance patch possibly ever in the game's history.

Also it appears some stats are bugged to give more or less than they should, some heals heal more than they should while others heal less, etc. but I refuse to report any more bugs for this game, but if you want to find them it won't be difficult.

Vietfox

JayKwellen wrote: »

In pvp you generally need a burst heal (unless you're a magblade like me, in which case rip)

Kadoin wrote: »

PvP balance this patch is so skewed that you either play the meta or die trying to fight against it.

I went back to my magblade and i'm being quite successful with it, better than i expected tbh.

Firstmep

Other as in i dont care what the meta is i run what i think is good for my playstyle. If its the same as the meta then so be it.

Sergykid

meta can be defeated only by meta, so offmeta can be played only against another offmeta

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

meta is not a thing in pvp you run to your playstyle

Vietfox

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

meta is not a thing in pvp you run to your playstyle

Yes, i make my builds according to my playstyle, but some people don't.
Meta is a thing in pvp, just like bloodspawn and pirate were for instance.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Vietfox wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

meta is not a thing in pvp you run to your playstyle

Yes, i make my builds according to my playstyle, but some people don't.
Meta is a thing in pvp, just like bloodspawn and pirate were for instance.

some may i dont even use shields in pvp on my dk and sometimes i run in light and devines, what i ment to say meta is not really need, understanding movement is more key to pvp

Vietfox

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

meta is not a thing in pvp you run to your playstyle

Yes, i make my builds according to my playstyle, but some people don't.
Meta is a thing in pvp, just like bloodspawn and pirate were for instance.

understanding movement is more key to pvp

Well of course, but some sets can carry you more than others.

JayKwellen

Vietfox wrote: »

I went back to my magblade and i'm being quite successful with it, better than i expected tbh.

Eh it's not all bad. The lack of a burst heal does hurt sometimes, but I'm able to manage with dampen, the mitigation from merciless, maim from the shade, and minor protection from dark cloak.

It's a bit easier to burst people down now too, although magblade burst is still stupid easy to avoid if you know it.

I've also been spending more time on my StamDK and my new Stamden project, and I forgot how stupid easy it is compared to magblade. With my magblade I really felt like I had to work to kill even a startlingly average stamden or stamcro or Stam anything really. But got damn if you don't feel good after getting a kill, because you know you earned it.

No really though, I may b**** about it but even though I have her parked this campaign my magblade is still my favorite character by far. Such a fun class! It's just in a rough spot at the moment is all. If you're finding success though and enjoying it then keep at it, that's all that matters anyway right?

Josira

"Oh look someone with a giant sword I wonder what move he could possibly ever use?????"
*1 death recap with 3 7k dizzying swings in the space of 1.5 seconds later*

*gASp*

In all seriousness though,I have heard rumors of builds with 7k weapon damage and it elludes me as to how. but at the same time I reached 2.3k spell damage and 47k max magicka on a mag necro(it doesnt make mag necro viable if you where wondering,stick to harmony builds )
If your a magic build,try to get more then 35k max magicka with 2.3k spell damage and you should do....okish. if your a stamina build...I have no clue. Ive tried the stamina playstyle a lot but I cannot seem to get the grasp of playing stam classes and do better with magicka classes.

Bradyfjord

When I get curious, I look at what Dottz or Alcast might be doing. I do that to get ideas. But I always build for my strengths as a player rather than copy their builds.

Dracane

Most people here will claim to be individual and to not run meta builds.
While when you look around in pvp for an hour, you will find the opposite is the reality. Meta builds are immensly common and individual builds rare.

technohic

Usually tweak meta builds. Findbtgeir baseline and tweak fir preference or to try to exploit the weakness. Pretty easy to not worry about the non-meta builds outside a few niche class setups.

Magsorc and magdens as an example; could be strong and obviously not running NMA and Fury. A lot of the NMA Fury are running not a lot of speed and/or recovery. I bet the Wild Hunt ring on others will get them to move off something if getting their own mythic items didn't already

Josira

Dracane wrote: »

Most people here will claim to be individual and to not run meta builds.
While when you look around in pvp for an hour, you will find the opposite is the reality. Meta builds are immensly common and individual builds rare.

Individual builds that work are even rarer. I had a non meta setup back on console post clockwork city,back in the day when nightblades where good enough to not be forced into certain sets (and also 2h's not counting as 2 piece of sets)
It was fun. Defiler,Unfathamable darkness and velidreth. sword and shield offensive bar and 2h healing bar,argonian. 15k max magicka too. tri stat food,30k health and tanky as hell while also being able to go invisible a lot. dealt a lot of damage. even was able to do 1v3's pretty well.
I miss my boi the changes to nightblade mean it just doesnt work anymore,as I relied on skill morphs that dont exist nowdays. like the old dark cloak that was crucial to this build. and how easily the ultimate was to weave into light attacks too. thats gone.
and argonian passives that I also relied on kinda gone too. the healing for one. I built him to heal really well. cant do that anymore.

LuxLunae

I use a trash redguard templar....I make unique builds on it...since redguard is trash and templar is trash (stamina templar) Any build I become competent on that, can be extended to my DK and NB and used to wreck the hell out of people.

Once I put it on my DK...I kept thinking "how can I make this better"

The answer for pvp

DK, Heavy Armor, High Weapon DMG+Crit, low stam recov, Heavy attack weave, Ultimate Generation...

Well it slowly started turning into the 5 finger First person shooter.

Then I realized ZoS destroyed the fabric of the game. They are forcefully pigenholeing us into one true meta....

I don't get wth medium armor is even for now after using it for years....it does noting pvp wise. Crit, recov, stamina reduction evasion all stupid. Why because roll dodge and break free are a mess in pvp.

Wearing heavy armor and investing in not being dropped fast is what will win in pvp. DK rules all of pvp.

The only way streamers, and top teir pvpers try to avoid the 5 finger(5 BUTTON, SORRY) first person shooter is by becoming tanky....There is no strategy.

Burst damage, dancing around for ultimate generation, burst damage, dancing round for ulti generation, burst damage....

These guys got good, I wont deny them that, balancing pot drinks for sustain, heals and burst damage. However I was saddened to see there were add ons that tell them what to do at a certain point. As to become mechanical.

That's pvp in a nutshell. No strategy, nothing. Unless you wanna run around rocks and trees.

Heavy armor and heavy attack weaving...

Lysette

To me the result is not surprising - I doubt that there is even a common notion of what a meta build actually is.