Should our pre-Greymoor vet Maelstrom and vet Dragonst weapons to be upgraded for perfected ones?

JusticeSouldier

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom answers?!!!

BuildMan

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Just another reason not to sub.

Ratzkifal

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom answers?!!!

@JusticeSouldier We got answers in a recent Q&A on Kyledempster's stream where he interviewed ZOS_RichLambert who confirmed that the whole thing was his idea and that he is to blame for it, not BrianWheeler who was just the messenger. He also wants us to "earn" these "new" weapons.

Note: Rich, sees the perfected MA and DSA weapons as a completely new and separate set that we need to earn like any other new set too. He is wrong on that of course, but that's his stance and the call was made. This is final and we need to deal with it now.

This also means that BrianWheeler is allowed to call us "gang" again.

stefj68

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

What would u prefer

farming vet? for perfected

or farming a new perfected version of that vet, with higher difficulties more aoos to get the new perfected set?

case closed

JusticeSouldier

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

stefj68 wrote: »

What would u prefer

farming vet? for perfected

or farming a new perfected version of that vet, with higher difficulties more aoos to get the new perfected set?

case closed

new perfected version could be challenge. Currents "way" explanations is - run X times old buggy content without any changes, than collect transmute crystals and tempers to have right trait and golden it.
It's unpredictably many lifetime hours of routine midless process.
To have such "enjoy" everyone can hire a job of cashier in market. There u will get salary at least.
No?

@ZOS_GinaBruno we demand excuses

stefj68

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

I understand your frustration, but still its content you can do right now, you wont have to learn new mechanics, for hours, die and die and die over and over, with lags we having right now lol...

But its an mmo, they want you to have something to do, something to pass times on when you get online, so you don't leave to play another mmo.... dreaming about an upgrade of your old items... that would never happend...

JusticeSouldier

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

stefj68 wrote: »

I understand your frustration, but still its content you can do right now, you wont have to learn new mechanics, for hours, die and die and die over and over, with lags we having right now lol...

But its an mmo, they want you to have something to do, something to pass times on when you get online, so you don't leave to play another mmo.... dreaming about an upgrade of your old items... that would never happend...

i like new things if they work proper and done with inspiration.
or old one with no forcing me to do that.
but this case is clear humiliation of players.
@ZOS_RichLambert can u please explain what a "reasons" had u to think we will enjoy to rerun old content? Your goal was to feel "power"?

Drako_Ei

Its already too late, they gave the exact same item to people beating it on nMA, they probabily have the same item ID, zos is probabily uncapable of doing it now

deflorate

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

richo262 wrote: »

Old was
I thought ZOS was joking when they said this, and the community response was clear

So because of something you read and assumed on the forums you now speak for the entire community? The changes don't do a single negative thing to anyone who currently has old vMA weapons, you actually get a slight buff.

Arguing that players can get the same thing you worked for but on normal is also completely dumb because a bad player with a new weapon doesn't make them good, they'll just be a bad player with a better weapon and you'll still be ahead of them.

If you NEED to min max and get the upgrade then do it. There is nothing that these new weapons provide other than a measly few % when doing the absolute end-game tier content with a perfect group and even then it's not going to be something that makes or breaks a group.

JusticeSouldier

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Its already too late, they gave the exact same item to people beating it on nMA, they probabily have the same item ID, zos is probabily uncapable of doing it now

They must apologize to us and promise that this will not happen again.
Before that i guess they should at least understand what is wrong here.
Pretty sure they understand and done this anyway.
But we should watch, read or hear offficial words about that.
I will not invest any $ into eso until this happend!
@ZOS_GinaBruno do u read forum at all? is it hard to breath with heads stucked in the sand?

And, I'm sure eso database contains such information as when it was obtained and what was Mode of arena at that time.
So it's just a technical issue.
must most important is their Will to fix the problem here.
And the problem is unacceptable attitute to player's time, efforts and money.

heaven13

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Ratzkifal wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom answers?!!!

@JusticeSouldier We got answers in a recent Q&A on Kyledempster's stream where he interviewed ZOS_RichLambert who confirmed that the whole thing was his idea and that he is to blame for it, not BrianWheeler who was just the messenger. He also wants us to "earn" these "new" weapons.

Note: Rich, sees the perfected MA and DSA weapons as a completely new and separate set that we need to earn like any other new set too. He is wrong on that of course, but that's his stance and the call was made. This is final and we need to deal with it now.

This also means that BrianWheeler is allowed to call us "gang" again.

I think Rich is also coming from a biased perspective as a player. He's good at vMA. Has gotten flawless on his stamplar, nearly 600k score, etc. So, for him, getting the new weapons won't even be that big of a deal, other than the possible RNG grind. But that level of competence at content sometimes makes us feel less empathy for (or at least not look at it from the perspective of) someone who really struggled to beat vMA just once.

dark_wood7

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

yes we should get upgrade free, new player finish normal get weapons, i spent many nights for it, this is not justice !!!
i try again get stress get headache.

dark_wood7

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler this is 5 years ago DLC place, i won 3 times get weapons, i spent many days nights , so why you are change game balance, maybe next update you make super perfected who knows ?

MEBengalsFan2001

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Guys, please lets up this thing.
It's very important to show our reaction to this disrespect to all our lifetime spent for this in the past for this boring content.
We got arena weapons form veteran arenas. Same as now needed for perfected weapons.
Bugs, lags + absolutly terrible random and farm of transmute crystals to get a right freaking trait on weapons on the top...

Dam @ZOS_BrianWheeler HOW??? WHY? REASONS???????

The reason is that anyone who collected the item has had time with it and has had the benefit for quite a while now. If you want the updated weapon, run the content again to get the perfect version.

Veinblood1965

I don't see the issue at all, nobody actually lost anything, your current weapons were not altered. They could just have easily said hey we added new drops to VMA and named the items something like Superduper Bow and everyone would have been like hey that's great!

Yes it's a pain to refarm and ZoS could have handled it way better I'll grant that.

Octohex

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Interesting, how many people who voted for "no" really finished vMA?

zvavi

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Octohex wrote: »

Interesting, how many people who voted for "no" really finished vMA?

I can assure you that there are people that voted no here, but also voted against introducing higher CP gear. Probably those.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529210/is-it-ok-to-introduce-cp170-gear

Well. Essentially it is the same.

CaptainVenom

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

What's next? Asking for a refund because ZOS made IC DLC free?

You guys are tough. I'm sure you can do those arenas again.

zvavi

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The reason is that anyone who collected the item has had time with it and has had the benefit for quite a while now. If you want the updated weapon, run the content again to get the perfect version.

That reason works in games that are built upon linear gear progression. we didn't lose any power, etc etc, but ESO would never higher armor cap and make everyone refarm it, which it wouldn't do because the game has horizontal gear progression. So why the change of policy? Why do the vets, get a slap on their face of "we made a small change against our usual policy to screw you all over"?

And worst of all, the new perfected inferno doesn't even higher your damage, the perfected is an empty title.

AWinterWolf

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

The one thing that concerns me is where they'll draw the line. Perfected Maelstrom gear and then what? Perfected dungeon gear?

Vinterskald

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

I honestly just don't get it. I don't know who it's supposed to benefit. It's definitely not for more casual players, because trust me, people who were struggling with vMA before the patch and were relieved when they finally got the weapon they wanted - like me - will probably not struggle any less with it now. I can't really "farm" vMA because it genuinely still is difficult content for me, and the prospect of having to go in there over and over again now to get the weapon that I would've been supposed to get anyways is incredibly discouraging.

And I'm not even against Maelstrom weapons dropping on normal! I'm happy that people can get those kinds of weapons more easily now! But it genuinely makes no sense at all to not automatically upgrade the already existing Maelstrom weapons.

Especially with RNG being a factor. No one likes getting their thirteenth ice staff when they're going for a bow. If they'd at least have added some sort of item with which you can transform your existing (probably golded out and transmuted...) Maelstrom weapon into its perfected variant, I would've been a little less discouraged. But it being the way it is just makes me genuinely sad, especially since I'm pretty happy with this patch and the new content it added otherwise.

The only thing that gives me a bit of solace here is that the staves aren't honestly any more useful than their "normal" counterparts, so there's no real downside for people not getting their perfected variants... but still, with how big the difficulty increase between nMA and vMA is, I would say that the perfected staves should actually be a slight bit more powerful.

dhoward5b14_ESO

Can someone explain the upside for players (or for ZOS) by not upgrading people's Maelstrom weapons you already got doing vet? I haven't seen anyone think it's a good idea to not upgrade weapons, but many people who think it's a big FU from ZOS (including me - unsubscribed from the day they announced this stupidity).

iris56

I honestly wouldn't care so much if it wasn't for the rng.

I had to do over 50 runs to get my *first* bow. I have 36 max level characters on two accounts. Do you have any idea how long it took to get those geared?

My boyfriend was over 200 runs in before his first bow dropped. He's also got a ton of alts.

At this point ZOS won't change anything, but I really hope Rich Lambert gets a kick of karma and has the worst rng on farming any gear he wants.

May rng never smile upon him again. Lol.

nalimoleb14_ESO

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

It’s disgusting. And the people taunting the players who put in the time to grind VMA/VDSA by saying utter crap like “you’re tough, you can grind the arena again” are the same hypocrites who voted no to increasing the gear cap to CP170. Not to mention, probably never actually made it through VMA/VDSA to grasp just how bad the RNG is.

What @ZOS_RichLambert has created is resentment between veteran players and new or casual players that didn’t need to be there. Casual players think that veteran players are elitist and are enjoying this blatant slap in the face to veteran players. Veteran players think casual players are speaking on a subject they aren’t educated about because they’re feeling empowered now that they have access to (formerly) BiS weapons they otherwise had no shot of obtaining.

The funny thing is that I am a casual player. I am garbage at trials, so-so at DLC dungeons, only go to Cyrodiil for the Skyshards, hate arenas, and whenever I had the chance to play the game (before I unsubbed) I was usually questing solo. I didn’t think I had a shot at beating VMA but one summer I really wanted that Inferno staff and decided to put in the effort to get it. Several grueling months later I finally had a Maelstrom Inferno staff and a Flawless Conqueror title. After that I said I would never touch that arena again, because it was easily the worst gaming experience a casual gamer could ever have. The grinding, the bugs, the deaths - it was awful.

So yes, give the VMA/VDSA weapons to players who aren’t able to beat the content, make them more accessible. But to put a slightly better version of the same weapon in the same bug-ridden arena, and give nothing to the players who put in the time to obtain those weapons on Vet in the first place, is a tremendous slap in the face. People who pulled their hair out facing the hardest non-trial content in the game with the worst RNG to boot for weeks/months or longer are running around with the same weapons as players who face rolled nMA/nDSA this week, and are being told to go back in and “earn” the Perfected version. @ZOS_RichLambert you should be ashamed of yourself and how you handled this whole situation. It’s an embarrassing way to represent Zenimax. Heh.

And to think I used to be a Zenimax apologist. It kind of makes me want to throw up.

mairwen85

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

Cross quoting myself from another thread:

mairwen85 wrote: »

Although there was an official statement of agreement with Rich's private discord chat, that still hasn't really been an official announcement to explain why this case was special in comparison to every other gear change in the game. Ridiculous car analogies aside, and seeing the statement of "players aren't losing any power" for what it is (a non-sequitur that ignores the points raised by players), no one has explained what makes this decision on maelstrom weapons unique, and whether we can expect more of the same decisions in future for any and all aspects of the game. Is horizontal progression still the primary driver for content and gear? Or have they outright abandoned that? Are the established norms only relevant on the whim of Rich, and if not what qualifies deviation from them? What can we as players expect for the future and to what extent does our investment and contribution actually even matter?

They have acknowledged they should have been more transparent on this, that they should have spoken more on the matter and provided more interaction to address player concerns. That's great, but it feels hollow because they still haven't done that... not even in the slightest. No player feedback has been responded to, and no attempt made to a quell the growing mistrust.

PizzaCat82

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

I don't see a problem doing the maelstrom or Dragonstar again for perfect versions. I've done it before. I've gotten very good at it. I'll do it again.

What I wont do, is grind them again. I'll wait for double drops and do it a few times that way.

Probably better to do the math on new drops and sets and see if its even worth it now.

Anethum

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

interesting why player's feedback about this case stays ignored by zenimax.
it's important part of communication. they should explain themselves

Dark_Lord_Kuro

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

We farmed for the normal one not the perfected onne so we have no claim on the new one

Desthayl

Yes. We spent hundrets hours in both VETERAN arena!

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

casts wall of text

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

codierussell

No. (Write in co0mment please why?)

At least you still get a weapon at the end of it. Does nobody remember the days when you got one weapon every 5 or so runs and there was no transmutes so you could have got unusable weapons. People were making characters to match the weapons they got since it was actually hard back then. 300k scores were no joke and now a 300k score won't get you on the leaderboard. Be happy they changed the drop rate and added transmutes, things could be a lot worse, plus the perfected versions aren't even worth it.