Proposition for Vampire : getting HP when feeding !

Serkuos

Many times, when I explored the rude Skyrim, I was losing HP (because of, you know, fall damages or creature) and that was a bit annoying because with my vampirism... I don't have any HP regen.

So I thought it would be absolutely PERFECT to get HP (at least, a bit) after feeding! It would add another use to feeding, will be ultra-cool and RolePlay, and would really help with the no-regen penalty while still be balanced!

Just imagine... you lost HP in a hard fight in the wild of Skyrim, you need to heal... But, to do so, you need to go to a town, find a prey, run to become fog-like and stalk your prey to go behind its back...and devour it to restore your health...

In my opinion, it's a really simple tweak that would help SO MUCH!

So yeah, I hope Zenimax will hear about this idea. please, make it real. I think it would be awesome.

Spectral_Force

Yeah, I've suggested it I about a week after 6.0.0 dropped in the Vampire Feedback thread. Either ZOS haven't seen it and it's too late to change anything now, or they fundamentally have something against that idea. There is also option 3 - this would take way too long to implement, but I doubt a change like this is so massive that it can't be implemented in three weeks.

navystylz_ESO

Serkuos wrote: »

Many times, when I explored the rude Skyrim, I was losing HP (because of, you know, fall damages or creature) and that was a bit annoying because with my vampirism... I don't have any HP regen.

So I thought it would be absolutely PERFECT to get HP (at least, a bit) after feeding! It would add another use to feeding, will be ultra-cool and RolePlay, and would really help with the no-regen penalty while still be balanced!

Just imagine... you lost HP in a hard fight in the wild of Skyrim, you need to heal... But, to do so, you need to go to a town, find a prey, run to become fog-like and stalk your prey to go behind its back...and devour it to restore your health...

In my opinion, it's a really simple tweak that would help SO MUCH!

So yeah, I hope Zenimax will hear about this idea. please, make it real. I think it would be awesome.

On live it's like this. I kept asking why it's not anymore, with no answer.

Spectral_Force

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

On live it's like this. I kept asking why it's not anymore, with no answer.

Are you sure the heals are coming from the bite, and not from passive health regeneration?

navystylz_ESO

Spectral_Force wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

On live it's like this. I kept asking why it's not anymore, with no answer.

Are you sure the heals are coming from the bite, and not from passive health regeneration?

I mean, it's been a while. Maybe I'm miss remembering the string of blood feeding. So will change that to "well it needs to heal!"

Vevvev

Werewolves heal when they feed so why don't vampires? This idea should have been implemented in the first Greymoor PTS patch.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Considering they have made higher vampire stages reduce your natural healing rate then healing while feeding would make little to no sense, if anything it just seems that drinking blood is simply not good for your health which is odd because Vampires are undead and should not be getting sick for drinking blood.

Serkuos

Well, I hope ZOS will know about this idea and implement it when Greymoor will go live. It seems to be a pretty simple tweak with good potential.

Glurin

Spectral_Force wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

On live it's like this. I kept asking why it's not anymore, with no answer.

Are you sure the heals are coming from the bite, and not from passive health regeneration?

Was wondering that myself. Since, you know, we're pretty much discouraged from feeding on Live, and I only ever do by accident, I really don't remember if you get health from it or not.

They probably should though. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense why they wouldn't. Unless maybe, they need time to digest?

(Ok, now I've got an image in my head of a vampire unfastening his belt buckle Thanksgiving style after feeding on someone.)

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Serkuos wrote: »

Well, I hope ZOS will know about this idea and implement it when Greymoor will go live. It seems to be a pretty simple tweak with good potential.

It is an idea which condradicts itself, if feeding reduces your health regeneration then why would you heal while feeding?

Glurin

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Serkuos wrote: »

Well, I hope ZOS will know about this idea and implement it when Greymoor will go live. It seems to be a pretty simple tweak with good potential.

It is an idea which condradicts itself, if feeding reduces your health regeneration then why would you heal while feeding?

Oh, I got this one. You lose health regeneration because your own life force is being reduced, but you'd heal while feeding because you are supplementing it with someone else's.

Alexium

I agree with the idea! There is some heal on the feeding on Live. I can confirm it because I use some addons that logging heal and damage done. So new vampires should heal themselves by feeding. Look here. Vampire goes to the city after hard battle. He need some HP. Why should he do massacre on the streets with Drain ability? Of course he can use class or weapon line heal but what if he is roleplaying? ;D

Serkuos

Alexium wrote: »

I agree with the idea! There is some heal on the feeding on Live. I can confirm it because I use some addons that logging heal and damage done. So new vampires should heal themselves by feeding. Look here. Vampire goes to the city after hard battle. He need some HP. Why should he do massacre on the streets with Drain ability? Of course he can use class or weapon line heal but what if he is roleplaying? ;D

Yeah and that's totally what I meant with my idea haha, it could be SOOOOO COOL! And honestly, I'm sure it's not that hard to add in the game.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Glurin wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Serkuos wrote: »

Well, I hope ZOS will know about this idea and implement it when Greymoor will go live. It seems to be a pretty simple tweak with good potential.

It is an idea which condradicts itself, if feeding reduces your health regeneration then why would you heal while feeding?

Oh, I got this one. You lose health regeneration because your own life force is being reduced, but you'd heal while feeding because you are supplementing it with someone else's.

Why would you even drink blood then if it diminishes your own lifeforce?

Sephyr

Glurin wrote: »

Spectral_Force wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

On live it's like this. I kept asking why it's not anymore, with no answer.

Are you sure the heals are coming from the bite, and not from passive health regeneration?

Was wondering that myself. Since, you know, we're pretty much discouraged from feeding on Live, and I only ever do by accident, I really don't remember if you get health from it or not.

They probably should though. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense why they wouldn't. Unless maybe, they need time to digest?

(Ok, now I've got an image in my head of a vampire unfastening his belt buckle Thanksgiving style after feeding on someone.)

We're just as discouraged from feeding on the PTS as well. At this point they should just change Vampirism into something else because the sound of it just does not sound like a vampire at all.

Oh well.

Serkuos

Well, this tweak would encourage feeding a bit more so I think it could improve, at least a little bit, the new vampirism (since people seem to be...quite angry with it.)

Thevampirenight

Feeding should heal vampires and especially Stage four ones.
Given that feeding on live right now does have the means to heal you as you have it active. It does have that effect I think it would be nice if the new vampire did as well.

Ulthlian

Yep, feeding should heal you. Why they removed it in the first place?
I think there should be a little buff after feeding for 30 minutes (1 hour?), that returns you 5% HP regen. Only active at stage 4. Or it could be just minor lifesteal. Purifying and corrupting bloody mara will cleanse it. This solution will promote active feeding at max stage and give you little nice bonus in Perfect Scion transformation. And you can get rid off of this ridiculous "died on a horse" thing

Thevampirenight

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Considering they have made higher vampire stages reduce your natural healing rate then healing while feeding would make little to no sense, if anything it just seems that drinking blood is simply not good for your health which is odd because Vampires are undead and should not be getting sick for drinking blood.

Well the player version seems to be a inverted form of the stage four Vampirism system. In this case makes the body look ill when you feed since its inverted. Though its odd that health regen is downgraded that does not mean there isn't power to heal by blood. I really think that should be added back in. They are not really undead in traditional sense, they are more ravaged by a disease that isn't easy to cure and it really does look like this with the new vampire system.

The Inverted form seems to weaken the vampires non vampiric abilties instead of increasing them, Ability cost weakness, losing health regeneration. Being able to die just from tripping on a rock. It really does act more like a disease that weakens the person suffering from the condition rather then increasing their power and strength. Of course you do still get some vampiric power. However at the cost of being more feeble instead of being stronger.
So to overfeed would mean your weaker and don't have as much strength.
So this type of vampire would actually be weaker then the standard vampire because of the inversion. This is what they made it look like after all.
These were the vampire stats from Oblivion at Stage four. From the Uesp Page
Attribute/
Skill Bonus +20
Resist Normal
Weapons 20 %

Now say that Oblivion's vamprism was like this new form we are getting from Lamae in Eso. Then those stat increases would be stat decreases.
Attribute/
Skill Bonus -20
Weakness to Normal
Weapons 20%

Not only would they be weaker then they were before but also more vulnerable.
So you are right they are getting sick from drinking blood unfortunately,drinking blood basically weakens them and makes them sickly.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Considering they have made higher vampire stages reduce your natural healing rate then healing while feeding would make little to no sense, if anything it just seems that drinking blood is simply not good for your health which is odd because Vampires are undead and should not be getting sick for drinking blood.

Well the player version seems to be a inverted form of the stage four Vampirism system. In this case makes the body look ill when you feed since its inverted. Though its odd that health regen is downgraded that does not mean there isn't power to heal by blood. I really think that should be added back in. They are not really undead in traditional sense, they are more ravaged by a disease that isn't easy to cure and it really does look like this with the new vampire system.

The Inverted form seems to weaken the vampires non vampiric abilties instead of increasing them, Ability cost weakness, losing health regeneration. Being able to die just from tripping on a rock. It really does act more like a disease that weakens the person suffering from the condition rather then increasing their power and strength. Of course you do still get some vampiric power. However at the cost of being more feeble instead of being stronger.
So to overfeed would mean your weaker and don't have as much strength.
So this type of vampire would actually be weaker then the standard vampire because of the inversion. This is what they made it look like after all.
These were the vampire stats from Oblivion at Stage four. From the Uesp Page
Attribute/
Skill Bonus +20
Resist Normal
Weapons 20 %

Now say that Oblivion's vamprism was like this new form we are getting from Lamae in Eso. Then those stat increases would be stat decreases.
Attribute/
Skill Bonus -20
Weakness to Normal
Weapons 20%

Not only would they be weaker then they were before but also more vulnerable.
So you are right they are getting sick from drinking blood unfortunately,drinking blood basically weakens them and makes them sickly.

As I keep saying this Vampirism system is basically a *drug addition* system.

You consume *Blood* to get temporary buffs (Which are the stage based passive abilities) at the cost of your own health and these buffs are what you are supposed to be craving, the more you consume the more sick you become, this is reflected in the debuffs associated with it, your visage becomes sickly and your bodies ability to heal shut's down, Lamae Bal just wants you to think your becoming stronger by feeding much like a Skooma dealer would make you try to think Skooma was good for you, you cannot be so foolish as to actually trust her, she is nothing more then a delusional Idiot who thinks she can overthrow a Daedric Prince, she is little more intelligent then those Bandits who try to mug that guy who just devoured a Dragon's Soul and would likely get splattered on the sidewalk the moment she tried to raise a hand against him.

LMar

I think it makes great sense to heal when you bite/feed on prey. Motivates you more to be that parasitic predator who wants to feed on others

Serkuos

LMar wrote: »

I think it makes great sense to heal when you bite/feed on prey. Motivates you more to be that parasitic predator who wants to feed on others

Exactly! And I'm sure it's really simple to add, and can help stage 4 Vampires with the no-regen debuff... Honestly, for me there is no reason for Zenimax to not add it.

That's why the should see this.

Serkuos

Ah, still no news about this idea. I keep playing as a vampire and feel that this improvments is much needed.

(I also saw something on the forum about Vampiric Drain spell lack of damages, some poeple think the damages should be updated in order to make this spell useful, and I also think this idea need ot be heard.)

Vevvev

With the Ring of the Pale Order feeding heals you for the max instance of healing possible. Reason being is Blade of Woe and it's copy paste Feed do damage equal to 100% of the target's max health.

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

Sephyr

Vevvev wrote: »

With the Ring of the Pale Order feeding heals you for the max instance of healing possible. Reason being is Blade of Woe and it's copy paste Feed do damage equal to 100% of the target's max health.

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

That'd seriously make vampire a little more engaging considering that there's just nothing vampiric about the line atm. Even if they didn't have the pay wall there, it just makes no sense why the ring would do a better job at being a vampire than an actual vampire.

Serkuos

Sephyr wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

With the Ring of the Pale Order feeding heals you for the max instance of healing possible. Reason being is Blade of Woe and it's copy paste Feed do damage equal to 100% of the target's max health.

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

That'd seriously make vampire a little more engaging considering that there's just nothing vampiric about the line atm. Even if they didn't have the pay wall there, it just makes no sense why the ring would do a better job at being a vampire than an actual vampire.

I 100% agree.

Serkuos

Vevvev wrote: »

With the Ring of the Pale Order feeding heals you for the max instance of healing possible. Reason being is Blade of Woe and it's copy paste Feed do damage equal to 100% of the target's max health.

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

Do oyu mean like... Actual vampire feeding ? So, I need an item to be a "real" vampire ? ("real" because I'm not so convince by the skill line... NPCs have much more vampiric skills.)

Hmm.

Vevvev

Serkuos wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

With the Ring of the Pale Order feeding heals you for the max instance of healing possible. Reason being is Blade of Woe and it's copy paste Feed do damage equal to 100% of the target's max health.

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

Do oyu mean like... Actual vampire feeding ? So, I need an item to be a "real" vampire ? ("real" because I'm not so convince by the skill line... NPCs have much more vampiric skills.)

Hmm.

Yep... Since Greymoor feed no longer heals you. It used to heal a LOT of health as well as stun the target, which meant you could use it against players. It was as apart of the vampire playstyle, but many people didn't use it since it required you to be invisible or sneaking. This meant Nightblades were the ones that used it mostly.

Now you can only use it on NPCs taking its usability away from PVP, and then they didn't even bother to put the healing on it. It is literally just the Blade of Woe reskinned and it's a massive step backwards. Sure the animations are awesome and they change depending on your character and your target's height, but it's lost so much of its utility in the process.

Serkuos

Yep... Since Greymoor feed no longer heals you. It used to heal a LOT of health as well as stun the target, which meant you could use it against players. It was as apart of the vampire playstyle, but many people didn't use it since it required you to be invisible or sneaking. This meant Nightblades were the ones that used it mostly.

Now you can only use it on NPCs taking its usability away from PVP, and then they didn't even bother to put the healing on it. It is literally just the Blade of Woe reskinned and it's a massive step backwards. Sure the animations are awesome and they change depending on your character and your target's height, but it's lost so much of its utility in the process.

If they allow us to use it on player again, + add a heal when it's used on NPC (so it's not OP in PvP) it would be SOOO much more immersive, useful, and would actually... Make the player feel more like a true vampire, which isn't really the case even since the new skill line. Hope Zenimax will see it, I don't think it's so hard to implement, and it would do a lot...

Spectral_Force

EIght months on and there's still nothing.

Vevvev wrote: »

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

This sounds like a good avenue for making vampire in general more viable, especially since you'll essentially get a free equipment slot out of this, though I feel like it could be a while-slotted ability on something other than Scion. I see the mechanical parallels with slotting the Werewolf ultimate, but Scion, while being anywhere between a bit and very overpriced (depending on your stage), is at least a functional ability. I reckon if this was to go ahead, RotPO's effect would look much better on something like Frenzy, because God (Bal? Lamae?) knows that ability needs more incentive to be slotted.

Yes, the downside of blocking outside healing will be intensified, since it'll now block the healing always instead of just when it's on, but you'll also be able to increase Frenzy uptime due to the pseudo-lifesteal. This would turn Frenzy into more than a suicide button that increases your DPS (which seems to be one of the greatest issues people have with the ability - the lack of creativity), and it also redeems the ability as being more "conventionally" vampiric in nature since slotting it literally gives you lifesteal (instead of turning you into a suicidal blood fiend, which is the other major issue people have with Frenzy). In fact the dynamics of using Frenzy become really interesting - slotting the ability allows you to restore "blood" (health) more quickly, activating it will drain that resource in exchange for "power", and deactivating it will, again, enable you to more quickly regain the spent resource than you'd be able to before this change.

Spectral_Force

Vevvev wrote: »

Anyone else feel like the Ring's effect should just be a byproduct of slotting the Blood Scion ultimate or a dedicated passive? It really is the catalyst to make the skill line feel vampiric and it's locked behind a pay wall.

Actually now that I think about it, would it be too game-breaking to just give vampires the RotPO effect as just a base passive? Use "unable to be healed by anyone other than yourself" as the downside of being a vampire instead of increased costs and/or decerased health regen. Granted, this makes vampires undesireable for group content (unless you're a healer or a DPS that can self-heal enough to stay alive), but at the same time it'd turn vampirism into something you actually have to commit to, and ensures that it'll never be taken just for the passives. This will also solve the "heal when feeding" problem as a welcome side-effect. Ironically, this change would turn the Ring of the Pale Order into a vampire version of Hircine's Ring, turning you into a vampire-lite at the cost of an equipment slot.