ZOS: Stamcros and Magblades shouldn't even exist within the same game in their current states.

fred4 · May 15

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe the problem is people play the wrong play-style, I assume most Mageblades you fight are Light Armor wearers? ever fought an Immovable using Heavy Armor wearing Mageblade? that is a different ballgame when the Nightblades defenses are actually high enough that they can out-heal your damage with Swallow Soul which at the same time will deal damage to you.

This is the setup that I use and I encountered a Sorcerer in Cyrodiil who panicked and retreated when they realized their "Streak + Haunting Curse + Mage's Wrath Combo" did nothing against me because I was unable to be stunned which means they could not knock me down and thus I was able to keep up my Health Siphoning with they could not withstand.

They didn't panic. They copped on that you were a tank and left in disgust.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

@fred4 You think having a unique ability to control a fight (i.e. engage and disengage at will), while also (until recently) having some of the best burst and some of the best pressure (major defile) in the game wasn't overpowered?

Lastly, as far as I know (based on tooltips, at least), the only stealth detection method that can be used preemptively is a detect potion. All of the skills need to "reveal" an already stealthed or invisible target in order to do anything.

Moose_Scout · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

You think nightblades are the best class in BGs? That is hilarious. It is Stamdens and Stamcros by a mile.
Wait, you think MAGblades are the most powerful? Oh.. you are trolling.
Good joke; really made my day!

My stamcro can kill a NB so fast it is silly.
Blastbones, blastbones, blastbones, until cloak is broken. Dizzy swing. The Nightblade will then cloak again but I know where they are so I do an AOE Ultimate and execute when cloak re-breaks. Meanwhile, all the damage they have done to me is mended.

When I am playing my stamblade or magblade and come across a necro or stamwarden....I run or wait for a 1vx.

I am a NB main.

^THIS is high level battlegrounds. You must be playing your first battlegrounds in low ranks if NBs are the top-dog.

Vortiene · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

Lol, so for instance... You think Fear (a class skill) should be worse than Turn Evil (a skill accessible to anyone)?

1) Turn Evil is a stamina skill, while fear is magicka
2) Turn Evil is probably overpowered.
3) Most other classes don't have any on-demand (i.e. non-delayed), AoE, hard CC (i.e.stun or fear), outside of ultimates. How would you feel if they took away your fear and replaced it with something like Arctic Blast (which requires 3 hits for similar CC)?

A burst heal, aoe dot, HoT and unblockable stun that gives me major resolve and 3% hp through my class passives would be beyond amazing for magblade. This shows you really don't understand the game. Fear is a really bad skill.

fred4 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

@fred4 You don't think having a unique ability to control a fight (i.e. engage and disengage at will), while also (until recently) having some of the best burst and some of the best pressure (major defile) in the game wasn't overpowered?

Emphasis on the past tense and on stamblades. Also, let's be clear on what nightblades have / had. Stamblades had the defile and have the damage buff with Incap. Unlike every other class, they never had stacked burst. Calling that "the best" burst is not something you can objectively argue. The prize for the hardest hitting ulti goes to Take Flight. The prize for the best stacked burst is shared between magsorc, stamden and probably stamcro (I don't play that one). I do believe the prize for the hardest hitting non-ultimate skill does go to Assassin's Will / Scourge, but it doesn't stack. These days cast times on Incap and Will / Scourge have made things even worse. A sorc can stack some combination of Curse, Fury, Meteor and slow moving Frags, then streak and stun you when they all hit. A nightblade can't even fear you anymore and reliably hit you with a single of their so-called burst skills. People are able to break free and dodge roll beforehand.

What melee stamblades had was always just a high pressure window after the Incap, with the possibility of firing just one other burst skill (Scourge) that could not be mitigated when Incap stunned. It is hard for me to say whether stamblades were overtuned back in the day. I never liked heavy armor and I often played solo. I was very frustrated playing my medium armor stam DK against stamblades back then. I thought they were OP, but I knew much less about the game.

Lastly, as far as I know (based on tooltips, at least), the only stealth detection method that can be used preemptively is a detect potion. All of the skills need to "reveal" an already stealthed or invisible target in order to do anything.

Incorrect. The way to use Magelight and Camou Hunter correctly is to cast those skills while the nightblade is right in your face. All skills internally run on a pulse. I think it's probably a one second pulse for those ones. If a nightblade attempts to cloak while you have Magelight / Camou running, they are exposed a fraction of a second later when the skill pulses. They suibsequently can't cloak for 3 seconds, even if your Magelight / Camou Hunter was just running out.

I say Camou Hunter, because I think it's the superior morph. The other morph would allow you to recast the skill more cheaply before it runs out. I think very few people use the skill that way. IMO detection potions are better or the Sentry set or any number of skills that don't specifically target invisibility. These include spamming Jabs or Noxious Breath. Bombard, if you want to be that nasty guy in a group. Streak, Lightning Form, the warden ice ult. Wearing Overwhelming Surge. And so on, and so on.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

Vortiene wrote: »

A burst heal, aoe dot, HoT and unblockable stun that gives me major resolve and 3% hp through my class passives would be beyond amazing for magblade. This shows you really don't understand the game. Fear is a really bad skill.

Except the healing scales off health, so either the heal or the DoT are tiny, and the stun is easily avoided because all your targets need to do is avoid getting hit by 3 or more ticks of the DoT (by moving only 6m away). Plus, you can probably only chase one enemy at a time as they move out of your AoE (so it's effectively a single target stun, at best).

Also, I'm not sure how salivating over the how great the Shadow passives are bolsters your argument that Nightblades are weak.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

fred4 wrote: »

Incorrect. The way to use Magelight and Camou Hunter correctly is to cast those skills while the nightblade is right in your face. All skills internally run on a pulse. I think it's probably a one second pulse for those ones. If a nightblade attempts to cloak while you have Magelight / Camou running, they are exposed a fraction of a second later when the skill pulses. They suibsequently can't cloak for 3 seconds, even if your Magelight / Camou Hunter was just running out.

I stand corrected on that one. I'm not sure how spending 5k resources and a GCD to preemptively defend against a skill that only costs 4k resources works out favorably for anybody though. It seems like using a reveal preemptively just makes it a lot less likely for the Nightblade to need Cloak at all.

Also, it seems kind of broken that according to nightblades, the only way to beat them is to specifically equip capabilities that are ONLY useful against nightblades.

I wonder what would happen if Dragonknights had an ability that could only be countered by specially equipping an ability that's not otherwise useful (e.g. by equipping non-projectile attacks).

AMeanOne · May 15

Magblades the best bg class? I thought I'd heard it all, but now I have.

Czekoludek · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Incorrect. The way to use Magelight and Camou Hunter correctly is to cast those skills while the nightblade is right in your face. All skills internally run on a pulse. I think it's probably a one second pulse for those ones. If a nightblade attempts to cloak while you have Magelight / Camou running, they are exposed a fraction of a second later when the skill pulses. They suibsequently can't cloak for 3 seconds, even if your Magelight / Camou Hunter was just running out.

I stand corrected on that one. I'm not sure how spending 5k resources and a GCD to preemptively defend against a skill that only costs 4k resources works out favorably for anybody though. It seems like using a reveal preemptively just makes it a lot less likely for the Nightblade to need Cloak at all.

Also, it seems kind of broken that according to nightblades, the only way to beat them is to specifically equip capabilities that are ONLY useful against nightblades.

I wonder what would happen if Dragonknights had an ability that could only be countered by specially equipping an ability that's not otherwise useful (e.g. by equipping non-projectile attacks).

Since when aoe skills are useless? Or camo Hunter that gives you berserk? Or inner light that increase your max magicka?
The problem is, most counters of Nb main defence will be something that you have normaly on bar. No sacrfice is needed to specialize in Nb killing.

Deathlord92 · May 15

I literally have be in a certain type of mood to 1v1 a stamcro be it on my magblade or stamblade because you don’t even need to have brains to spam all your heals and be unkillable.

Langeston · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

nesakinter wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

You must be lowest of low MMR BG players. NB is much harder to play effectively in BG, in any role but healer, with all the AoE effects.

Btw as a bowblade or magblade... you prob shouldn't walk into AoEs. Do you go into melee range with yours???

Well considering the fact that of the eleven magicka damage dealing class skills, eight of them force you into melee range in order to make full use of them, yes — you will likely wind up within melee range on a magblade (unless you decide not to use class skills.)

As far as AOEs, when you have skills like Subterranean Assault/Biting Jabs/Streak pulling you out of Cloak from up to 20m away and through walls & floors (such as in Istirus Outpost) it's completely unnecessary to "walk into them" — they find you just fine all on their own. (Yes, someone spamming Jabs on the level beneath you pulls you out of Cloak and damages you.)

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

Czekoludek wrote: »

Since when aoe skills are useless? Or camo Hunter that gives you berserk? Or inner light that increase your max magicka?
The problem is, most counters of Nb main defence will be something that you have normaly on bar. No sacrfice is needed to specialize in Nb killing.

You could have made the same argument about Dragonknights' reflect, and magblades still managed to get it nerfed.

The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be a cost associated with having an exceptionally powerful and unique ability like Cloak. For a long time, nightblades didn't have to pay that cost. Now that things are more balanced, they're all up in arms about it.

The alternative would be for Cloak to get a huge nerf, and for nightblades to get buffs in other areas (which is basically what happened to Dragonknights' over the last couple years).

Unfortunately/fortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that Cloak is too important to class identity to nerf into the ground, so what you get is a class that is still competitive, but only if you account for the (largely intangible) power of Cloak in your comparisons against other classes.

fred4 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm not sure how spending 5k resources and a GCD to preemptively defend against a skill that only costs 4k resources works out favorably for anybody though. It seems like using a reveal preemptively just makes it a lot less likely for the Nightblade to need Cloak at all.

Unless they listen and watch you very carefully, they don't know you've cast Magelight / Camou. They only realise, to their detriment, when they attempt to cloak. Yes, those skills are expensive. You have to use them strategically. A nightblade will cloak when you did some damage to them or, perhaps, when their burst didn't succeed and the Incap window has run out. That's when you cast the skill. That said, most players don't bother and if the nightblade is very cautious, they may always shade away in time rather than cloak.

If you are a stam DK you will typically count on the NB underestimating your damage. One Leap + Executioner will easily kill many a nightblade, especially when you wear either Titanborn or Fury. Those sets are double-edged swords. Your damage will be inconsistent, but that's also how you may catch people out.

As a stamden or stamcro you just need to get off one good burst combo once. Subteranean + Dizzying + Dawnbreaker of Smiting + Executioner is an insane amount of burst when it lines up.

Against weaker nightblades your best bet is to simply spam certain skills, such as Sweeps / Jabs / DK Breath. Those all have a snare attached. If you're an AOEplar you add the ulti and perhaps Grothdarr + Solar Barrage. Nightblades are in trouble, no detection needed.

Sorcs running Lightning Form and Streak don't really have much of a problem either. The absolute worst counter to my nightblade is a streaking Overload sorc with a detection potion, although if they simply plonk down the atro that makes them extremely hard to attack. The Twilight lightning attacks also have a tendency to uncloak you.

I can't really think of a class that doesn't have a gameplay option against nightblades, even without detection. Mag DKs use some combination of Fossilize, Whip and Leap. Power of the Light is nasty, because it uncloaks you, as does the sorc curse. Those skills make it so the nightblade better keep their distance or seek out some line of sight. You can't just cloak as a nightblade. Those skills really delay your ability to go on attack again.

Also, it seems kind of broken that according to nightblades, the only way to beat them is to specifically equip capabilities that are ONLY useful against nightblades.

No, it's not. See above. You tend to need detection methods if you want to actively go after nightblades. If you are happy to kill or be killed on the NBs timetable, but otherwise let them go, you don't need detection. That's what most people do.

fred4 · May 15

Czekoludek wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Incorrect. The way to use Magelight and Camou Hunter correctly is to cast those skills while the nightblade is right in your face. All skills internally run on a pulse. I think it's probably a one second pulse for those ones. If a nightblade attempts to cloak while you have Magelight / Camou running, they are exposed a fraction of a second later when the skill pulses. They suibsequently can't cloak for 3 seconds, even if your Magelight / Camou Hunter was just running out.

I stand corrected on that one. I'm not sure how spending 5k resources and a GCD to preemptively defend against a skill that only costs 4k resources works out favorably for anybody though. It seems like using a reveal preemptively just makes it a lot less likely for the Nightblade to need Cloak at all.

Also, it seems kind of broken that according to nightblades, the only way to beat them is to specifically equip capabilities that are ONLY useful against nightblades.

I wonder what would happen if Dragonknights had an ability that could only be countered by specially equipping an ability that's not otherwise useful (e.g. by equipping non-projectile attacks).

Since when aoe skills are useless? Or camo Hunter that gives you berserk? Or inner light that increase your max magicka?
The problem is, most counters of Nb main defence will be something that you have normaly on bar. No sacrfice is needed to specialize in Nb killing.

This!

Vietfox · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Since when aoe skills are useless? Or camo Hunter that gives you berserk? Or inner light that increase your max magicka?
The problem is, most counters of Nb main defence will be something that you have normaly on bar. No sacrfice is needed to specialize in Nb killing.

You could have made the same argument about Dragonknights' reflect, and magblades still managed to get it nerfed.

Are you ok dude? What were magblades suposed to do against DKs with the old reflect? Spam concealed or maybe sap essence?? Their burst damage was completely negated against DKs since Assassin's will is a projectile. There was no way to defeat a DK as a magblade unless the DK was afk or just a noob who didn't know how to play their class.
Personally i was ok with the idea to not reflect projectiles from melee range so DKs could keep the old wings, but devs did something else.

Anyway, you can't compare cloak with the old reflect. That's just dumb.

Edit: even now magblades have a hell of a time against DKs with the current reflect.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

fred4 wrote: »

No, it's not. See above. You tend to need detection methods if you want to actively go after nightblades. If you are happy to kill or be killed on the NBs timetable, but otherwise let them go, you don't need detection. That's what most people do.

Sure, at which point nightblades are pretty much competitive with everyone else, where their superior ability to escape if things go south (and re-engage on their own timetable) is part of that balance.

If they were totally competitive in a stand-up fight without Cloak, the addition of Cloak would make them overpowered.

Vanos444 · May 15

Btw, OP.
Stamcros are good in PvE but Magblade is still below average in PvE. Compared to other classes.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

Vietfox wrote: »

Are you ok dude? What were magblades suposed to do against DKs with the old reflect? Spam concealed or maybe sap essence?? Their burst damage was completely negated against DKs since Assassin's will is a projectile. There was no way to defeat a DK as a magblade unless the DK was afk or just a noob who didn't know how to play their class.

Wait for the reflect to end. To quote @fred4 (with minor edits): "If you are happy to kill or be killed on the [DKs] timetable, but otherwise let them go, you [can wait for the reflect to end before using Assassin's will]."

Alternately, use something like Soul Harvest.

Vietfox · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Are you ok dude? What were magblades suposed to do against DKs with the old reflect? Spam concealed or maybe sap essence?? Their burst damage was completely negated against DKs since Assassin's will is a projectile. There was no way to defeat a DK as a magblade unless the DK was afk or just a noob who didn't know how to play their class.

Wait for the reflect to end. To quote @fred4 (with minor edits): "If you are happy to kill or be killed on the [DKs] timetable, but otherwise let them go, you [can wait for the reflect to end before using Assassin's will]."

Alternately, use something like Soul Harvest.

Right, because Soul Harvest + concealed is enough to kill a DK.
Right, gonna wait for the reflect to end while the DK can drop all their BS on me meanwhile.

Would like to see your magblade's rank alliance, seriously. I don't think you've played enough that class.

fred4 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be a cost associated with having an exceptionally powerful and unique ability like Cloak. For a long time, nightblades didn't have to pay that cost. Now that things are more balanced, they're all up in arms about it.

Cloak to me is a lifestyle. It's value is not merely combat, but the unique gameplay it enables, due to ignoring NPCs in PvP (keeps, resources, IC) and PvE alike. As a combat skill I'm not sure how powerful it is. I think it's mainly polarizing. It's powerful only when it works. It's polarizing because it can be a huge advantage, but you're truly screwed when countered. It's polarizing, because of it's gank potential, even though nightblades aren't strictly the only gankers in the game. DK heavy attack bow ganking was a thing once for example. It's polarizing because NBs fight dirty and this offends some people's sensibilities.

Also, the original post specifically mentioned magblades. Are you sure you're no throwing then in the same pot as stamblades? I don't think magblades are balanced today, but that they have suffered collateral damage from nerfs directed at stamblades and magsorcs. Both types of NB also suffer in a meta that includes AOE damage components from DK, warden, necro and templar while, unlike sorc, they usually have to go in close for their burst. They suffer both because AOE uncloaks them and because they typically only do single target damage themselves. They suffer because time to kill is extremely important when your main defense is shade and cloak and that's very hard to balance.

I don't think ayone is asking for much. Most ask for ultimate and Merciless delays to be reverted. Personally I am not complaining while Caluurion exists. It is not especially powerful in CP where I play most of the time, but at least it plays well. I am perfectly content to see how that goes next patch. Malacath's Band + Caluurion + Zaan may turn out to be nasty in no CP, but the worry is that magblade has no strength in the class itself, should something like that turn out OP and be subsequently nerfed.

WreckfulAbandon · May 15

I've seen a ton of "buff NB" threads where the one guy who pops in to say "um guys, NB really isn't a terrible class" always gets stampeded by tons of NB's convinced their class needs a buff.

It doesn't. There has to be a tradeoff for getting 30k bow tooltips. If you want to brawl, you are better off picking another class. But if you can use shade well and utilize the NB toolkit and class strengths, it's by no means a weak class.

mNB still one of the best (top 3 ez) dueling classes, stamblade (in the right hands) still one of the best 1vX classes. It's a different kind of 1vX than other classes but then again so is mSorc 1vX.

Stamcro and Stamden are in a league of their own along with mSorc right now, but this game is still a pillow fight, and nerfing them will not make combat better but bog it down even more. Nerfing healing next patch is a step in the right direction.

mav1234 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I'm just saying they're competitive, not overpowered. I'll even acknowledge that they're probably in the lower 50%, but they're far from the bottom dwellers you people paint them as.

so what's your tier list in bgs or non-ganking small scale, for stam and mag dps?

other than maybe a non-harmony magcro, is there anything worse than magblade? and stamblade, in open world it can be quite fun and really punishing, but seems worse than anything else small scale on the stamina side.

curious your take.

fred4 · May 15

x

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I've seen a ton of "buff NB" threads where the one guy who pops in to say "um guys, NB really isn't a terrible class" always gets stampeded by tons of NB's convinced their class needs a buff.

That is not how I understand this thread.

The OP mused that there is a power discrepancy between stamcro and magblade, but they didn't clarify why or what to do about it. While they seem to have strong feelings, this left it rather vague. What content were they mainly referring to, CP, no CP, BGs, open world?

Another player then posited that magblades are OP in BGs, which is the one place where, I think, most players feel the class is weak. Still, most haven't called for buffs, they're just flabbergasted by that assertion.

mav1234 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

Since when aoe skills are useless? Or camo Hunter that gives you berserk? Or inner light that increase your max magicka?
The problem is, most counters of Nb main defence will be something that you have normaly on bar. No sacrfice is needed to specialize in Nb killing.

You could have made the same argument about Dragonknights' reflect, and magblades still managed to get it nerfed.

The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be a cost associated with having an exceptionally powerful and unique ability like Cloak. For a long time, nightblades didn't have to pay that cost. Now that things are more balanced, they're all up in arms about it.

The alternative would be for Cloak to get a huge nerf, and for nightblades to get buffs in other areas (which is basically what happened to Dragonknights' over the last couple years).

Unfortunately/fortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that Cloak is too important to class identity to nerf into the ground, so what you get is a class that is still competitive, but only if you account for the (largely intangible) power of Cloak in your comparisons against other classes.

Cloak is extremely unreliable, way moreso than wings was. But it is very strong in open world settings. There are far more counters easily available (having a detect potion slotted, camo hunter is already amazing and in use by nearly every stam, inner light is widely used by mag) than was ever the case for wings - that's the thing. as a magblade if I ran into a mag dk, I hate to change my entire build around, not just swap a skill, because my spammables were gone and so was my burst combo. some other classes also had to make large changes. regardless of all that, it doesn't change the current state of magblades.

That said, stamblade is arguably getting a huge buff next patch. magblade maybe, although so few can play it melee right now, not sure how that'll impact them. It will be interesting though.

mav1234 · May 15

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

I've seen a ton of "buff NB" threads where the one guy who pops in to say "um guys, NB really isn't a terrible class" always gets stampeded by tons of NB's convinced their class needs a buff.

It doesn't. There has to be a tradeoff for getting 30k bow tooltips. If you want to brawl, you are better off picking another class. But if you can use shade well and utilize the NB toolkit and class strengths, it's by no means a weak class.

mNB still one of the best (top 3 ez) dueling classes, stamblade (in the right hands) still one of the best 1vX classes. It's a different kind of 1vX than other classes but then again so is mSorc 1vX.

Stamcro and Stamden are in a league of their own along with mSorc right now, but this game is still a pillow fight, and nerfing them will not make combat better but bog it down even more. Nerfing healing next patch is a step in the right direction.

even if you use the nb toolkit to its full strength, it is still weaker than other classes using their toolkits to their full extent, in anything other than ganking.

next patch though i think stamsorc will likely be worse than stamblade overall, but that is neither here nor tehre.

Indoril_Nerevar · May 15

I just dont care anymore. It seems useless.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

@mav1234 I don't have my own tier list, but here's a recent one from someone I think is fairly well respected:

He has magblade at a close 11/12 and stamblade at 8/12.

If you were to make a list based on the nightblades posting in this forum, stamblade would be 11/12 and magblade would be a distant 12/12, which is just nonsense.

Also, keep in mind that there's always going to be someone at the bottom of these kinds of rankings, and that doesn't necessarily make them bad. As things stand right now, things are pretty balanced, compared to what they could be.

Feizao · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health.

sounds like a magblade needs at least one other person targeting the enemy to be powerful

mav1234 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

@mav1234 I don't have my own tier list, but here's a recent one from someone I think is fairly well respected:

He has magblade at a close 11/12 and stamblade at 8/12.

If you were to make a list based on the nightblades posting in this forum, stamblade would be 11/12 and magblade would be a distant 12/12. Which is just nonsense.

is it actually nonsense? I don't get it - if you think that stamblade and magblade are so good right now, surely you can think of what classes are better than each! I would accept that you think stamblade is 10/12, magblade 11/12, with magcro at 12/12. is that what you are saying? XD

as to that video - I respect Kristofer a lot but I don't get stamden == stamblade. just doesn't make sense.. stamden is one of the best small scale, bg classes. so in terms of stam, stamblade is 6/6. but I actually think stamblade has gotten a couple buffs and, outside of smallscale/bgs, will be in an ok place soon. but IMO this post was about magblades, and as to his mag ratings - magcro at least has harmony bombing, but I would agree it is also not in a good place. even so, that puts magblade, at best, at 5/6.

frankly I think it is very hard to make a tier list combining both mag and stam I think, but either way, even in that video you link, stamblade and magblade are at the bottom of their respective class types.

magblade though is the one in the real rough shape, and that is what set off most of the posts here. you came in with the whole "OH YOU NIGHTBLADES, ALWAYS COMPLAINING" bit... many of us were responding to the dude that said magblade was OP in BGs, a plce it is actually at its weakest.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

mav1234 wrote: »

I would accept that you think stamblade is 10/12, magblade 11/12, with magcro at 12/12. is that what you are saying?

What I'm saying is that aside from MagSorc, MagPlar, and maybe StamCro, everyone else is so close that it's hard to even make a ranking.

The reason I got involved in this thread at all is because I'm tired of Nightblades claiming their class is D or F rank when it's really more like a B (along with most of the other classes).