ZOS: Stamcros and Magblades shouldn't even exist within the same game in their current states.

Langeston · May 15

Do you seriously believe they are in the same league?

If no, why would you allow such an absurd disparity? If yes, I think you need to actually try playing your own game — because you are sadly mistaken.
[Note: this is from the perspective of a PVP player. Maybe they're more balanced in PVE, I dunno.]

SHOW · May 15

sadly have to agree.

kargen27 · May 15

Why?
Just a general statement doesn't cut it. We need to see examples of that absurd disparity.

shrekt4303 · May 15

Stamcros are strong atm because they have an easy source of major defile that works well with dizzying swing burst set up. Stamdens have similar burst in the form of subterannian assault, but necro has better means of passive healing. Major defile ruins any chance of recovery in non cp. If they removed the delayed damage and made it work like dark flare they'd be more balanced. Imagine a stamplar with a delayed cast dark flare. Stupid amounts of damage in the matter of 3s. They use blast bones, dizzy, dizzy, execute and your dead.

Mag blades are okay in non cp, but have very little burst making it hard to confirm kills. I dont have much exp with them so that's all I'll say

Draevik · May 15

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

Hotdog_23 · May 15

Necromancer (Blastbones) and Wardens (Scorch) both have a short strong burst skill which is part what makes them so strong in PVP compared to the other original 4 classes.

Sorcerer has Crystal Fragments while strong it is still RNG based and only works for the mag sorcerer, Stam sorcerer has Bound Armaments but it is not very good in PVP overall.

Dragonknight has Inferno skill but the 5 second burst and RNG of it does not compare to the 2 new classes 2.5 second burst skill.

Nightblade have Grim Focus which is also strong, but you must build it up and use it during a timed window limiting if compared to Necros and Wardens.

Templar have Backlash but again a long 6 second window compared to 2.5 for Necros and wardens. Plus, it was nerfed when it would only build your own damage and not damage of others. Personally, the ability to crit does not make up for it in my opinion.

GeorgeBlack · May 15

That's what happens when you delete Reflective Plate. Back then the majority was laughing. Did not gave a chance for magDKs to incure added fatique cost per cast to combat the so called "ranged shut down".

StamDKs were only viable with SnB/2h BS 7th Fury, never slotting Reflective Plate.

That's what happens when you are not promoting healthy dialogue.
Enjoy the state of a washed up class now.

As for stamCro... it is the new stamDen. Nothing new.

rpa · May 15

Is this a nerf NB or nerf Sorc thread?

nesakinter · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

You must be lowest of low MMR BG players. NB is much harder to play effectively in BG, in any role but healer, with all the AoE effects.

Draevik · May 15

So all these magblades I see dominating BGs is just my imagination??? Weird I am not in the lowest of the low. You guys must not fight any good ones.

Magblades and Magsorcs are most usually tops on PS4 BGs. 2nd runner ups are DKs and Stamcros.

Draevik · May 15

nesakinter wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

You must be lowest of low MMR BG players. NB is much harder to play effectively in BG, in any role but healer, with all the AoE effects.

Btw as a bowblade or magblade... you prob shouldn't walk into AoEs. Do you go into melee range with yours???

Greek_Hellspawn · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

>Magblade
>Most powerful class in bg
Lmao 😆😆

Spammable suffering from travel time.
No good defense/squishy af, only good thing is cloak which is countered easily by good players, other times it just doesn't work.
Only class with cast times on ulties.
To get your burst you must play a mini game with light attacks and when you actually get it,it is as easy to dodge as your spammable because it suffers from travel time too.
There are also other things but i am bored to write them.

Edit:If you want more details check this thread out,it says everything that is wrong about magblade and why it is by no means the most powerful class in bg.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519870/playing-a-magblade-is-nothing-but-frustrating/p1

Banana · May 15

rpa wrote: »

Is this a nerf NB or nerf Sorc thread?

Hopefully sorcerers. They annoy me more

Stravokov · May 15

the OP is just annoyed because nightblades can cloak out (when cloak actually works lol). but they are super weak to anyone who has actually played them compared to other classes. why? because of one ability -cloak-, players have complained and complained to the point that nightblade has repeatably been nerfed into oblivion.

it's mind boggling that players still complain not because nightblades are actually OP, but just becuase they are annoyed that they couldn't kill them via cloak.

Play a Magblade dude, and tell me they are OP when your constantly getting out performed by every other class/build.

Czekoludek · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

So all these magblades I see dominating BGs is just my imagination??? Weird I am not in the lowest of the low. You guys must not fight any good ones.

Magblades and Magsorcs are most usually tops on PS4 BGs. 2nd runner ups are DKs and Stamcros.

Well nbs are being hard to counter mostly for low mmr player so it is probably not your imagination, just low mmr.
They have the weakest healing that requires 3 skill slots to be reliable. Not burst but at least reliable. Imagine if stamcro needed to slot vigor in 3 skill slots to have nice HoT.
Their burst is clunky and can be shut down pretty easy. Mag spammable have the travel time of 450ms (so like frags I think).
Ult have cast time. Bow have travel time which makes it impossible to land on good players after fear as they have time to break free and roll.
Their main defence is shade and cloak. Shade can be pretty powerful if player right (and it is done by less then 5% blades population). Cloak is easily counterable. If you play stamsorc, you have basically great anti cloak tool in your toolkit as hurricane will pull out every Nb around you from stealth. Tell me how to counter main class defence that easily on templar, warden or necro.
Their aoe is nonexistent.
Their skills are do lackluster because of doing only one thing, it is impossible to use full advantage of the class (part of this is healing that requires 3 skill slots).
And about being top in bgs. I don't know what you consider "top" but on leaderboards you will see a lot of mediocre players as the more you play, the highier you are. Players with high mmr need to wait longer for match then players with low mmr.
Regards,
Blade main since 2016

Bucky_13 · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

So all these magblades I see dominating BGs is just my imagination??? Weird I am not in the lowest of the low. You guys must not fight any good ones.

Magblades and Magsorcs are most usually tops on PS4 BGs. 2nd runner ups are DKs and Stamcros.

Umm, sure a good magblade is annoying to play against, but a good magsorc should beat them. Sorc is one of the worst classes to face as a nb. I play mostly nb sniper, but man, sorcs are by far the hardest class for me to face if we're talking average to good players. You mentioned skills you use against them, yet you didn't mention one of the most effective ones that a sorc have in their arsenal that works exceptionally against any nb assuming you know when to use it.

cheemers · May 15

Magblade is in a god-awful place right now in terms of PvP strength. Sure there are some skilled players who can do decent things with it, and out of stubbornness or loyalty try and stick with it, but I guarantee they could do so much more on a non- D tier class.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

And here's an example of 1 and 3 all in one post.

cheemers wrote: »

Magblade is in a god-awful place right now in terms of PvP strength.

"Nightblade are weak"

cheemers wrote: »

Sure there are some skilled players who can do decent things with it, and out of stubbornness or loyalty try and stick with it, but I guarantee they could do so much more on a non- D tier class.

"Some do great, but that's because of the player not the class"

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

Czekoludek · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

By recent history you mean 2 years of nerfs? Do you even play any blade?

Vietfox · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

Lol, so for instance... You think Fear (a class skill) should be worse than Turn Evil (a skill accessible to anyone)?

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

Vietfox wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

Lol, so for instance... You think Fear (a class skill) should be worse than Turn Evil (a skill accessible to anyone)?

1) Turn Evil is a stamina skill, while fear is magicka
2) Turn Evil is probably overpowered.
3) Most other classes don't have any on-demand (i.e. non-delayed), AoE, hard CC (i.e.stun or fear), outside of ultimates. How would you feel if they took away your fear and replaced it with something like Arctic Blast (which requires 3 hits for similar CC)?

Jaxaxo · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

Lol, so for instance... You think Fear (a class skill) should be worse than Turn Evil (a skill accessible to anyone)?

1) Turn Evil is a stamina skill, while fear is magicka
2) Turn Evil is probably overpowered.
3) Most other classes don't have any on-demand (i.e. non-delayed), AoE, hard CC (i.e.stun or fear), outside of ultimates. How would you feel if they took away your fear and replaced it with something like Arctic Blast (which requires 3 hits for similar CC)?

Actually would feel great (playing magden, played nb long time ago). It's not the best stun u can have, but on top of aoe stun u get burst heal, hot, aoe dot. Now compare it to fear which lost both slow and minor maim.

SebDeTyra · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

Haha what kind of bg's are you playing in? It's so easy to get a NB out of stealth, not even counting potions, mage guild skill, fighter guild skill.

Also hurricane? So you're a sorc who literally have the easiest time getting and killing a stealthed NB. Streak onto them next time. Thank me late later.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

My point is that we can cherry pick skill comparisons all day. The fact that Nightblades are weaker than they used to be, and some of their skills are weaker than "comparable" skills available to other classes, doesn't mean they're weak over all.

An example that's specifically relevant to this thread is comparing the morphs of Summon Shade to stamcro's Skeletal Archer. You would have to be stupid to prefer the archer.

As for my own skills, I thought I addressed that in my reply to @cheemers. I've never claimed to be any good, but I do have a magblade and it's not dramatically weaker or stronger than any other class, as far as I can tell.

I'm just observing that a lot of the people who say Nightblades are weak also like to brag about how good they are at PvP (on their Nightblade). Which, to me, reads like someone who's probably pretty good, but thinks they're AMAZING because they got used to how things were when Nightblades we're notably overpowered.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 15

Maybe the problem is people play the wrong play-style, I assume most Mageblades you fight are Light Armor wearers? ever fought an Immovable using Heavy Armor wearing Mageblade? that is a different ballgame when the Nightblades defenses are actually high enough that they can out-heal your damage with Swallow Soul which at the same time will deal damage to you.

This is the setup that I use and I encountered a Sorcerer in Cyrodiil who panicked and retreated when they realized their "Streak + Haunting Curse + Mage's Wrath Combo" did nothing against me because I was unable to be stunned which means they could not knock me down and thus I was able to keep up my Health Siphoning with they could not withstand.

robertthebard · May 15

Draevik wrote: »

magblades are the most powerful class in BGs, anytime they are remotely losing they just use cloak and reset the fight and then toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying. I have went so far as to use:

Camo Hunter which literally does nothing when right on top of a NB i tried it
detect pots
Hurricane
Stealth draining poisons

This was all in the course of several matches against the million of new nightblades in BGs lol... HINT HINT op vamp + NB equals 2-3 shotting people.

Stamcros are unkillable if played right. But not quite as devastating as any good nightblade

What's that you say, they're broken because they use class skills in PvP? The horror, don't they know they're only supposed to use LA/HA against some players?

Araxleon · May 15

I mean Stamcro does have insane survivability but outside that I wouldn't say they are that powerful. They excel at being insanely tanky and take out heavy armor builds pretty well due to the defile.

On my Magblade I have beaten some of the best stamcros, my 2 cents are they need tweaks but they gotta be careful because if they nerf the survivability a lot AND nerf blast bones, why play stamcro?

Silent99 · May 15

Magblades are really meh atm

~The ult , soul harvest is super clunky to use cause of the cast time
~The burst while quite strong if done right is slow to wind up, so if you dont kill someone when you burst and they left at low health they will just be healed back to full before you can burst again.
~The burst is so easily avoided by anyone who understands how nbs work, it literally can be100% avoided.
~Due to travel time ult > mass hysteria (cc) > bow proc can be dodged...
~They lack burst heals and rely only on heal over times meaning you will "struggle" to heal up when at low health
~Invis cloak is clunky to use and is easily countered by any exp player so you cant rely on it to save you all the time

That being said it can be fun and satisfying to play at times.
My 2 fav things of magblade are major defile and20% damage increase from soul harvest + heal over time and minor protection from dark cloak (other morph of invis cloak that makes you sorta tanky even in light armor if you keep all Hots ticking)

Stamcro on the other hand is stupidly broken, its so bad to fight against as a magblade who relies on Hots due to high major defile uptime........blastbones even targets ppl who are invis sometimes
Magblade burst is too slow in between to kill a stam cro, the only time you might actually be able to kill one is if you somehow manage to out sustain them and you can kill them while cc'd

Vanos444 · May 15

Magblade are the most non OP Class in the game. The balance is just non Perfect, compared to other classes in game.

fred4 · May 15

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

A recent history of nerfs doesn't indicate that a class is weak. It indicates that the class used to be overpowered.

I think it indicates that some players can't cope or are simply unwilling to deal with nightblades. Nightblades are aggravating, regardless of strength. That's a factor that has IMO contributed to them being nerfed. @Draevik writes:

"then [they] toy with you and be a nuisance until you are engaged or low health. It is honestly extremely annoying."

Yep. That about sums it up. These days many nightblades can't kill you, they just annoy you for so long that you eventually let your guard down

. As game plans go, I wouldn't call that OP. In fact, it is a losing strategy for death-match BGs, because of the amount of wasted time.

Nightblades seek to control the fight. They seek to engage and disengage on their timetable, not yours, and avoid your burst. That is their defense. The frustration you feel comes from having to adapt to that. It requires patience when you don't see the nightblade. When it disappears, immediately use the time for preparation, e.g. keep your buffs up and, if at full stamina, just stand there and block. Any and all detection methods outside of maybe the Sentry set and Streak should only be used while you can still see the nightblade, otherwise they are not effective. Don't use detection methods to find nightblades. Use them when they are already visible to prevent them from hiding, preferably potions. You will find that most nightblades wither away when you go after them at that point. If they still disappear, turn 180 degrees, as they have probably shaded behind you.

You complain about nightblades "being a nuisance" when you are engaged or at low health. Yes. They are opportunists. However the only thing that's unique about that is the gank: the very first time they show themselves. Once you know they are around, it's ultimately just one more thing to be on your guard about, just as you have to be on your guard about that DK, who is fighting your buddy 10m away and who may opportunistically leap you and kill you.

I'll give special mention to snipers. I am as annoyed as anyone when being shot at or killed by one of those in an otherwise balanced fight. On the other hand, the most powerful and currently popular variation of that involves the Titanborn set and the sniper debuffing their own health with Equilibrium before the gank. This makes them ridiculously easy to kill, if you can spot them. Despite the range advantage, it's a risky play for the nightblade.

Many patches ago stamblades were strong. I don't think there was ever a patch where magblades were regarded as being on the same level. Whenever someone called them strong, it was usually qualified with "has a steep learning curve" and "requires patience [e.g. to build Merciless and make it work]".