Revert the Master Destruction Staff? (Greymoor)

Vaoh

Which version of the Destructive Impact set (Master Destruction Staff) do you prefer to remain in ESO? Both have very different uses. Keep in mind that this is unrelated to the new 1-piece bonus on perfected versions.

Pre-Greymoor:
Destructive Impact
(2 items) Reduces the cost of Destructive Touch by 30% and increases the direct damage it deals by 2000.

Greymoor PTS:
Destructive Impact
(2 items) Reduce the cost of Destructive Touch by 10% and deal 600 Spell Damage for 4 seconds after casting it.

Some notes on what each are used for:

• Pre-Greymoor, this set turned Shock Clench into a powerful spammable ability for both PvE and PvP. Through using Destructive Clench, it created the only Shock element spammable and the only Ice element spammable in ESO. Without this weapon, those builds will no longer exist.
• On Greymoor PTS, this set grants a big spell damage bonus for a short time. It serves as a PvP weapon to support burst combos. However, in terms of PvE it is unusable for certain classes (Warden bc Shalks, Necromancer bc Blastbones) and won’t likely be used due to better options existing.
• Both versions have very different uses. Many people who golded out this set for Pre-Greymoor reasons will no longer be able to use this weapon for why they spent materials on it.

**** This DOES NOT relate to the new 1-piece bonus on perfected versions. That will stay regardless of whether the 2-piece bonus stays the same or changes.

JWillCHS

So...I don't remember the previous iteration of this item except for looking at some interesting Magplar builds that utilized it for an alternative spammable.

However, I love the current version on the staff for my own Magplar build on the PTS!

Giljabrar

Keep Destructive Impact as it is on Greymoor PTS

Skills crap, so the old version was mostly useless. At least now it'll have some viability in PvP again, adding more power to a burst window.

Olupajmibanan

Other

I stopped using Master Destro when they somehow decided that Flame Clench should have its range of 15m despite being the same ability as Magnum Shot or Javelin which have range of 22m.

I don't know if I find use for the new Master Destro. Probably, but what I know is that I definitely wouldn't find use for old effect without increasing Clench range to 22m

Fruity_Ninja

Keep Destructive Impact as it is on Greymoor PTS

The new version is going to have great use in PVP. Don't know why we'd want to revert it to its old useless state?

Derra

Other

I like the idea of the greymoor weapon better but it´s still insufficient.

Ironically it also showcases the issue of masterstaff even better than the old version. The base ability is not good enough and the current masterstaff doesn´t synergise with it for the most part.

Make ice clench, shock clench, and all 3 reach morphs purposeful - then design the weapon to offer functionality with all those morphs.

The old masterstaff was only really useful with shock clench. The new masterstaff is only really useful with fire clench. Ever since destructive reach and clench got redesigned the main issue of masterstaves is the base ability being absolutely terrible and that getting topped by the ability altering weapon not synergising with most of the morphs.
Back to the drawing board.

WrathOfInnos

Revert Destructive Impact to Pre-Greymoor

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

However, there is a better answer. Making Flame Reach into a viable DoT by using an arena weapon is an idea that I could get behind, it just needs to be a buff lasting the full 10s (like the Master Bow and Poison Injection) and can be backed down to 300-400 Spell Damage to balance the higher uptime. This would leave Magicka DPS without an arena weapon for trash (while stam has the Master 2H, vAS 2H, BRP 2H, vAS bow, vAS DW, vMA bow, and BRP DW all as good options for trash). I propose that the old Master Destro effect be moved to the BRP Destro. The instant damage would be much more useful than a DoT that never ticks, and cost reduction on Ele Ring would be very useful. To give it emphasis as an AoE set it could even have scaling bonus damage based on how many enemies were hit (like the Master 2H).

ThePedge

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

However, there is a better answer. Making Flame Reach into a viable DoT by using an arena weapon is an idea that I could get behind, it just needs to be a buff lasting the full 10s (like the Master Bow and Poison Injection) and can be backed down to 300-400 Spell Damage to balance the higher uptime. This would leave Magicka DPS without an arena weapon for trash (while stam has the Master 2H, vAS 2H, BRP 2H, vAS bow, vAS DW, vMA bow, and BRP DW all as good options for trash). I propose that the old Master Destro effect be moved to the BRP Destro. The instant damage would be much more useful than a DoT that never ticks, and cost reduction on Ele Ring would be very useful. To give it emphasis as an AoE set it could even have scaling bonus damage based on how many enemies were hit (like the Master 2H).

Why would you nerf BRP Destro?
BRP Lightning is already meta for clearing trash and you want to replace that with the *** Master Destro?

Septimus_Magna

Keep Destructive Impact as it is on Greymoor PTS

I like the design more than the current version which is only useful for PVP. In PVE Destructive Touch is a pretty weak skill so it could definitely use a buff. The bonus could be pretty good if its was viable to run Destructive Touch as spammable instead of Force Pulse for example.

The 4 second duration is also too short to use Destructive Touch as spell dmg buff, if the duration was 6-8 seconds it might be viable to do something like that. You still need to find a slot on your bar for Destructive Touch which can be tricky.

Maulkin

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

Note entirely certain of that, there might be a niche for it. MagDKs don't currently have a skill that needs recasting every 4-5 secs like other classes and with Elf Bane they have 15+ secs of DoTs that both allow for Reach uptime and will benefit greatly from the spell damage buff. It's like a 100% Siroria uptime while also being mobile at the expense of altering your rotation. It's gimmicky but possible I think. I 'm quite keen to try a parse with Zaan - ElfBane - 3xFGD - Master/Maelstrom when it drops. At 5 secs I believe it would certainly be a thing, whereas at 4 it might just prove too short.

As it is, It's mostly a PvP weapon to buff your burst before an ult drop.

Olupajmibanan

Other

Maulkin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

Note entirely certain of that, there might be a niche for it. MagDKs don't currently have a skill that needs recasting every 4-5 secs like other classes and with Elf Bane they have 15+ secs of DoTs that both allow for Reach uptime and will benefit greatly from the spell damage buff. It's like a 100% Siroria uptime while also being mobile at the expense of altering your rotation. It's gimmicky but possible I think. I 'm quite keen to try a parse with Zaan - ElfBane - 3xFGD - Master/Maelstrom when it drops. At 5 secs I believe it would certainly be a thing, whereas at 4 it might just prove too short.

As it is, It's mostly a PvP weapon to buff your burst before an ult drop.

Actually, this is a very good point. You simply have to cast engulfing, bembers and btalons right after flame reach. These dots are static and will keep 600 spell damage for whole duration. However, when we are talking about elf bane DK, the question is what's more: (103 SD + 600 SD on 4 dots) VS (129 SD + 1096 mag + 833 crit + 8% cost reduction on front bar skills). DK is a well-known sustain looser and only Asylum burning bug changed that

kojou

Keep Destructive Impact as it is on Greymoor PTS

I prefer the new version, since I think it will be more practical in more situations, but the old bonus wasn't bad either. I have a master ice staff that I use on a Warden PvP build that this change will ruin, but with this change I feel like I will be able to use it on a wider variety of builds.

iCaliban

Other

Revert the change to Reach. The 28 meter morph. Nerf the staff sufficiently to make it "balanced" so stam players cry less about it

Ezhh

Revert Destructive Impact to Pre-Greymoor

Really going to feel the loss of a nice AoE spammable.

WrathOfInnos

Revert Destructive Impact to Pre-Greymoor

ThePedge wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

However, there is a better answer. Making Flame Reach into a viable DoT by using an arena weapon is an idea that I could get behind, it just needs to be a buff lasting the full 10s (like the Master Bow and Poison Injection) and can be backed down to 300-400 Spell Damage to balance the higher uptime. This would leave Magicka DPS without an arena weapon for trash (while stam has the Master 2H, vAS 2H, BRP 2H, vAS bow, vAS DW, vMA bow, and BRP DW all as good options for trash). I propose that the old Master Destro effect be moved to the BRP Destro. The instant damage would be much more useful than a DoT that never ticks, and cost reduction on Ele Ring would be very useful. To give it emphasis as an AoE set it could even have scaling bonus damage based on how many enemies were hit (like the Master 2H).

Why would you nerf BRP Destro?
BRP Lightning is already meta for clearing trash and you want to replace that with the *** Master Destro?

BRP Lightning has never been meta for anything. Try any other set and watch your damage go up.

On live the Master Lightning with Clench outperforms BRP Lightning with Shock Ring, despite the loss of 1487 Spell Pen (which is actually useful on trash, unlike the Spell Pen being added to the Maelstrom Staff). This is because the Master bonus damage occurs instantly, and is tied to the skill itself before crit modifiers. The BRP effect damage has a delay that constantly refreshes when casting the skill. The 1st tick rarely gets a chance to deal damage (and cannot crit when it does), and the 2nd and 3rd will not ever tick unless you use a 2nd AoE spammable to avoid recasting Ring.

WrathOfInnos

Revert Destructive Impact to Pre-Greymoor

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

Note entirely certain of that, there might be a niche for it. MagDKs don't currently have a skill that needs recasting every 4-5 secs like other classes and with Elf Bane they have 15+ secs of DoTs that both allow for Reach uptime and will benefit greatly from the spell damage buff. It's like a 100% Siroria uptime while also being mobile at the expense of altering your rotation. It's gimmicky but possible I think. I 'm quite keen to try a parse with Zaan - ElfBane - 3xFGD - Master/Maelstrom when it drops. At 5 secs I believe it would certainly be a thing, whereas at 4 it might just prove too short.

As it is, It's mostly a PvP weapon to buff your burst before an ult drop.

Actually, this is a very good point. You simply have to cast engulfing, bembers and btalons right after flame reach. These dots are static and will keep 600 spell damage for whole duration. However, when we are talking about elf bane DK, the question is what's more: (103 SD + 600 SD on 4 dots) VS (129 SD + 1096 mag + 833 crit + 8% cost reduction on front bar skills). DK is a well-known sustain looser and only Asylum burning bug changed that

I’m pretty sure that all of those DoTs dynamically update to your current Spell Damage with every tick. I think it’s best to get all DoTs running before casting Reach for the 600 Spell Damage, then fill the 4s window with spammables. Even doing that it doesn’t seem to be worth it over other sets. You have to overcast Reach so much that you’re missing out on spammables, or the uptime is just so low (especially if Elf Bane is extending Flame Reach to 15s).

Definitely worth playing around with, maybe someone will find a good use for it. Right now it seems to be designed for PVP ganks where players can time the 600 Spell Damage with delayed burst damage, dropping their ult, and the CC of Flame Reach. In PVE sustained damage is typically needed, and a 4s burst window isn’t very strong.

Olupajmibanan

Other

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

Note entirely certain of that, there might be a niche for it. MagDKs don't currently have a skill that needs recasting every 4-5 secs like other classes and with Elf Bane they have 15+ secs of DoTs that both allow for Reach uptime and will benefit greatly from the spell damage buff. It's like a 100% Siroria uptime while also being mobile at the expense of altering your rotation. It's gimmicky but possible I think. I 'm quite keen to try a parse with Zaan - ElfBane - 3xFGD - Master/Maelstrom when it drops. At 5 secs I believe it would certainly be a thing, whereas at 4 it might just prove too short.

As it is, It's mostly a PvP weapon to buff your burst before an ult drop.

Actually, this is a very good point. You simply have to cast engulfing, bembers and btalons right after flame reach. These dots are static and will keep 600 spell damage for whole duration. However, when we are talking about elf bane DK, the question is what's more: (103 SD + 600 SD on 4 dots) VS (129 SD + 1096 mag + 833 crit + 8% cost reduction on front bar skills). DK is a well-known sustain looser and only Asylum burning bug changed that

I’m pretty sure that all of those DoTs dynamically update to your current Spell Damage with every tick. I think it’s best to get all DoTs running before casting Reach for the 600 Spell Damage, then fill the 4s window with spammables. Even doing that it doesn’t seem to be worth it over other sets. You have to overcast Reach so much that you’re missing out on spammables, or the uptime is just so low (especially if Elf Bane is extending Flame Reach to 15s).

Definitely worth playing around with, maybe someone will find a good use for it. Right now it seems to be designed for PVP ganks where players can time the 600 Spell Damage with delayed burst damage, dropping their ult, and the CC of Flame Reach. In PVE sustained damage is typically needed, and a 4s burst window isn’t very strong.

Just tested it on PTS, all 4 mentioned dots (Burning Embers, Engulfing Flamez, Flame Reach and Burning Talons) are snapshots of current stats, not updating dynamicaly. Popping SP pot had no effect on ongoing dot (tested each one individualy).

Only ground based dots such as Wall of Elements are dynamic.

Maulkin

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

On PTS the Master Lightning is noticeably weaker for clearing trial trash with Shock Clench. I miss this one niche use for it, and the 4s of Spell Damage isn’t enough uptime to use Flame Reach in a rotation. So IMO the easy answer is to revert the change.

Note entirely certain of that, there might be a niche for it. MagDKs don't currently have a skill that needs recasting every 4-5 secs like other classes and with Elf Bane they have 15+ secs of DoTs that both allow for Reach uptime and will benefit greatly from the spell damage buff. It's like a 100% Siroria uptime while also being mobile at the expense of altering your rotation. It's gimmicky but possible I think. I 'm quite keen to try a parse with Zaan - ElfBane - 3xFGD - Master/Maelstrom when it drops. At 5 secs I believe it would certainly be a thing, whereas at 4 it might just prove too short.

As it is, It's mostly a PvP weapon to buff your burst before an ult drop.

Actually, this is a very good point. You simply have to cast engulfing, bembers and btalons right after flame reach. These dots are static and will keep 600 spell damage for whole duration. However, when we are talking about elf bane DK, the question is what's more: (103 SD + 600 SD on 4 dots) VS (129 SD + 1096 mag + 833 crit + 8% cost reduction on front bar skills). DK is a well-known sustain looser and only Asylum burning bug changed that

703 SD >>> 129 SD + 1k magicka + 833 crit

That goes without saying, before we even consider that the 600 SD buff follows on both bars whereas the PFGD buffs don't. As for sustain, I predict all magDKs will go vamp and use Eviscerate for spammable which will solve their sustain issues. The question is not of sustain for me, but how big a DPS loss will it be casting Flame Reach every 4-5 secs to keep the buff up and whether it's worth it over say Siroria front-bar with same set up and not heaving to refresh Flame Reach.

WrathOfInnos

Revert Destructive Impact to Pre-Greymoor

@Olupajmibanan Very interesting thanks for checking. I tested several single target DoTs on live a few weeks ago and they were all dynamically updating with each tick, including Consuming Trap, Scalding Rune, Vamp Bane and Entropy. I can’t remember if I tried Reach, I’ll have to check it later. This means either the DoT behavior is being changed again in Greymoor (it’s been back and forth several times) or DK DoTs specifically snapshot current stats.